RadioActive wrote:

Could be some interesting times ahead if this frequency opens up to all comers. 

A Toronto translator for 1150 CKOC or 1220 CFAJ!!!!   Yeah, I know it could never happen 

Radiowiz wrote:

98.7 will more likely want to move to 106.5 to be a better stronger signal for Flow FM.
 

106.5 isn't significantly better than 98.7. It would not be worth the costs and risks to switch their audience over to 106.5. The only worthwhile use case for 106.5 would be simulcasting an AM station, the way 740 does on 96.7.

Even if they covered it, who would care? They have zero listeners. 

torontostan wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

98.7 will more likely want to move to 106.5 to be a better stronger signal for Flow FM.
 

106.5 isn't significantly better than 98.7. It would not be worth the costs and risks to switch their audience over to 106.5. The only worthwhile use case for 106.5 would be simulcasting an AM station, the way 740 does on 96.7.

Would 680 NewsRadio have a case for an FM repeater or does Rogers own too many FM stations to be allowed one? (Or for that matter RB or 640?)

Last edited by Hansa (September 2, 2025 5:11 pm)

Hansa wrote:

Would 680 NewsRadio have a case for an FM repeater or does Rogers own too many FM stations to be allowed one?

I'm speaking aspirationally when I say that 106.5 should be used as an FM repeater of an AM station. Unfortunately the CRTC is not inclined to approve a "nested FM repeater" (as they call it) ..... and even if they approve it, they'll consider it to count towards your FM station count (which is wrong).... so Rogers could not use this unless they shutdown 590. Corus could pull it off under said limit, but they probably won't see the rent at First Canadian Place (over $100,000 per year) being worth it for a weak signal. My money is on one of CJTM, CHIN-1, CJSA, or CHOQ getting 106.5....

590 having to be sacrificed isn't an issue as it probably loses more money right now than what it would cost to operate 106.5. If not for this MLSE & Rogers deal, I would've fully expected 590 to shut down in June 2026, "combining 590 and 680 into the same array" was a load of bologna. Now that 590 won't have to pay for Jays, Leafs and Raptors rights, who knows.... but probably still isn't worth the combiner project. 

RadioAaron wrote:

Lots of options for PxP. If the FM were in fact a simulcast they could break it and run the games on 680 and the news on 96.3 or 106.5 (or whatever) or they could buy time on 740, 100.7, 91.1, etc.

This wouldn't be allowed if it's a nested FM signal, and would be an issue with Numeris. Once the next season is over and Bowen is out of the picture, I thought that 590 would go away altogether, but now with Rogers controlling the rights it wouldn't cost Rogers as much to keep up the 590 charade since they won't have to pay to air Jays, Leafs or Raptors games....

mace wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

Just checked 106.5, and the carrier current from Elmnt is gone.

And WYRK Buffalo is coming in like a local. So if you're a country music fan, you now have another over-the-air choice. 

I tried WYRK on my car radio last night. Just as clear as the mega signal 99.5 and 102.5. No picket fencing at all.

Exactly!  I don't understand why anyone would want 106.5 with WYRK there.  I'm in the west end of Toronto and whenever there was even a little skip from the Buffalo area, WYRK would actually cover Elemnt.  It's just a poor choice.  There are so many second adjacents that are clear in Toronto, I don't get the reasoning behind not assigning them but assigning a frequency co-channel with another station instead.  Radios are more than selective enough these days to eliminate any interference complaints from the big guns on the CN Tower and FCP.  89.9, 90.7, 100.3, 104.9, 106.7, 107.5 are all clear downtown.  I know there are stations on many of those, but none of them have strong signals in Toronto like 96.7, 105.3 or 106.5, all of which have been assigned in Toronto.  Sort of related, I was surprised that Ryerson didn't ask for 89.9 instead of 1280.  I'm sure CIUT and CJBC wouldn't have cared.

Last edited by mjf (September 3, 2025 9:01 am)

torontostan wrote:

mjf wrote:

89.9, 90.7, 100.3, 104.9, 106.7, 107.5

Those are all crappy options like 106.5

Why is that?  None of them have any trace of a signal in downtown Toronto because they don't have a high powered station on them like the others I mentioned that have been assigned to Toronto.  Perfect for a lower powered station.  Oh, and I forgot 103.9 in my second adjacent list.

RadioAaron wrote:

torontostan wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

Lots of options for PxP. If the FM were in fact a simulcast they could break it and run the games on 680 and the news on 96.3 or 106.5 (or whatever) or they could buy time on 740, 100.7, 91.1, etc.

This wouldn't be allowed if it's a nested FM signal, and would be an issue with Numeris. Once the next season is over and Bowen is out of the picture, I thought that 590 would go away altogether, but now with Rogers controlling the rights it wouldn't cost Rogers as much to keep up the 590 charade since they won't have to pay to air Jays, Leafs or Raptors games....

It wouldn't have to actually be a full repeater since they can now have a 3rd distinct FM. 

As for Numeris, they've figured this out in the US. There's a maximum number of hours Arbitron allows simulcasts to break. WFAN does this split no problem.

The Crtc can barely handle the existing regulations.... while I'd like to see something unique like this, good luck.  They'd feel that letting another Indigenous station drown would be a better use of 106.5 than letting an English AM operator try to extend the lifespan of their station

Of course Numeris no longer releases the top line PPM data but back when they did ELMNT had the dubious distinction of being the only Toronto station to get a 0.0 share.

If I put on my broadcaster's hat, I think I would forgo any plans to submit an application for 106.5, at least until the CRTC gets the bee out of their bonnet about having an Aboriginal radio station in Toronto. Element did have a good signal in the core of the city, which is where I think they felt their listenership was. Most likely high operating costs and lack of interesting progamming did them in. When you have to resort to playing CHR to pay the bills, the end isn't far, especially when there are half a dozen others in this market doing the same and owned by bigger players that can afford the promotion, talent and give-aways you need to go with it.

That said, using 106.5 to reach the outer fringes of metro is a waste of time due to the constrained power limits for this channel and often having WYRK competing with your signal. Worse, you must operate using HD Radio, in order to mask WYRK's HD sidebands since an HD Radio will prioritize the HD stream it detects over FM analogue - a shortcoming of HD Radio that needs to be addressed. A better use of spectrum for Toronto would be the use of both 106.3 and 106.7. And yes, ICI Peterborough may have to move and Corus would have to give the thumbs up with CIMJ Guelph and Q107. As well Rogers, for their Country 106.7 station in Waterloo. Cooperation is obviously needed with 3 different parties here, but there could be commission brownie points to gain for facilitating more effective use of spectrum in Canada's biggest city. This could open up two, much less impaired Class B FM channels in a very densly populated region and there would be no technical necessity to use HD on either of them. As a bonus, the two would also severely impair reception of WYRK, repatriating country music listeners back to Canadian stations.

Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by Evuguy (September 4, 2025 9:19 pm)

Evuguy wrote:

That said, using 106.5 to reach the outer fringes of metro is a waste of time due to the constrained power limits for this channel and often having WYRK competing with your signal. Worse, you must operate using HD Radio, in order to mask WYRK's HD sidebands since an HD Radio will prioritize the HD stream it detects over FM analogue - a shortcoming of HD Radio that needs to be addressed.

There were a few times driving around where I would be hearing Elemnt's audio and seeing WYRK's HD data simultaneously on the car radio.  It was really confusing the first time that happened.
 

turkeytop wrote:

For many years we lived up on the Bruce Peninsula, north of the Wiarton checkerboard, There was an aboriginal radio station on the Cape Croker reservation I sometimes enjoyed listening to.
Their evening programming was music, mostly rock or classic country. During the day it was neighbourly community programs, with very local news, birth announcements, recipe exchanges along with games and prizes for the listeners. It always seemed like they were having fun.
We've been gone from there almost 30 years now and I don't know if the station is still alive.

You're talking about 100.1 CHFN Neyaashiinimging. I've been wondering the same. I heard it June 21 2003 as "Your First Nations station on the Bruce Peninsula." Had a warning about black bears, music was hip-hop, and it was mono. That's the only time I entered it in the logbook, but I likely heard it a few times, and it was probably an occasional visitor. I do record 100.1 often as I can easily null out Belleville and Listowel stations, and I've not heard a peep out of CHFN in recent years. The WTFDA database lists it as 72 watts, so it either doesn't get out well or it's off.


 

Last edited by Saul (September 4, 2025 11:11 pm)

Kawarthas