sowny.net | The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

December 26, 2018 12:57 pm  #1


Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Anyone who grew up listening to radio in the 70s in Toronto can attest that there used to be a huge number of Buffalo FM stations that generally came in here like locals. That was then.
 
Now, depending on your location, you’d be lucky to hear them on even a good DX day. I remember regularly tuning into WHTT (including when it was known as WNYS) at 104.1, WBUF at 92.9 (currently Jack-FM), then-oldies station WGR-FM (once WGRQ, now WGRF) at 96.9, WYSL-FM (and later WPHD), currently the Edge at 103.3 and WJYE-FM 96.1, which just switched formats and now goes by WMSX, as well as WBEN-FM, the automated Rock 102.
 
Every one of those stations came in to Toronto as if they were next door. Now, only the former Rock 102 – known as Star 102.5, WTSS – even gets a sniff into this market, along with 99.5 WDCX, a rarely listened to religious station. Both are grandfathered super-powered FM signals and broadcast at an astounding 110,000 watts, which is the only reason they still reach here with any quality.
 
WKSE (98.5) from Niagara Falls, N.Y. can usually be heard here, too, but other than that, the Buffalo FMs – if you can get them at all – are now filled with static, noise and adjacent interference.
 
Some of the American stations have moved their transmitters and changed their powers over the years. Others are being blocked by newer nearby frequency Canadian outlets on a very crowded FM dial. The CN Tower is also to blame. And with companies like CBS/Entercom now geoblocking their signals on the Internet, you can’t even hear most of them online.
 
Which is a real shame. One of the best things about listening to radio in T.O. used to be the broad array of places you could hear clearly. Buffalo also has a history of nurturing up-and-coming talent and many who are famous today made a stop in the Queen City for a number of years.
 
It’s a real loss I’ve been lamenting for a long time. And I have to admit that, even with the cookie cutter formats that most boast today, I wish they were as easy to tune in now as they were back then, by simply turning on your radio.

 

December 26, 2018 1:22 pm  #2


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I still listen to some Buffalo FM in my car. 96.9, 104.1, 103.3, 98.5 which have spotty signals in Toronto, are extremely listenable to the west in south Mississauga and Oakville. To the east, their signals improve significantly once you reach Scarborough. Crystal clear in Pickering, Ajax and Whitby. I know that doesn't help you if you live and travel predominately in the city. I did, for some time listen to 96.9 and 104.1 at home, through Tunein. Not any more. Apparently, Cumulus, which owns both stations, signed an exclusive agreement with IHeart earlier in 2018. Tunein had to drop the stations from their lineup.

 

December 26, 2018 5:46 pm  #3


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I just tried  97 Rock and WHTT on the web and was able to listen from their web site. Both also come in over the air using an indoor antenna but a lock on the stereo signal is a struggle. Had forgotten about WJYE and just tried the over the air signal and could not get it between the country outlet and classical FM. 


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 26, 2018 7:10 pm  #4


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

You could always use a VPN (virtual private network) to spoof your IP to an American address and listen to the stations on-line.


- Not an industry person.  Just a guy with a love of Toronto radio. 
 

December 26, 2018 8:10 pm  #5


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

How do you do that (spoof VPN etc...) - can it be done with just a single computer?
 

 

December 26, 2018 9:28 pm  #6


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I used to listen to WBUF at 92.9 in the '80s when they had Stan Roberts and Fred Klestine. Is that signal still receivable in the GTA?


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

December 26, 2018 9:43 pm  #7


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I can't get it at all anymore where I am. I seem to recall reading a while ago that they moved their transmitter farther south, and the signal into T.O. went with it.

As you know, it used to come in great here. Barely even needed a dipole antenna to get it. Now, nothing but static (and bleed over from CKIS 92.5, which also never existed when you listened.)

     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2018 12:24 am  #8


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Regarding the VPN. I use an extension that's available on Google Chrome. Have not used it in a while but I would turn it off aftering using it.

Re WBUF. Loved their free form format. Was one of the best until about 1977 and by 1978 they were AOR. The current Jack format is not my cup of tea but I can still tune the station but it's not as clear as it used to be and some of the interference may the caused by the Grand which is also at the same frequency.


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 27, 2018 8:03 am  #9


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Saul wrote:

How do you do that (spoof VPN etc...) - can it be done with just a single computer?
 

There are free and paid services.  I recommend and prefer the paid services.  Essentially, you change the settings on your computer to reroute your internet service so it looks like it's going through another country.  Use an American IP and the the US media company think you're an American company causing you to be unblocked.
 


- Not an industry person.  Just a guy with a love of Toronto radio. 
 

December 27, 2018 8:26 am  #10


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

RadioActive wrote:

I can't get it at all anymore where I am. I seem to recall reading a while ago that they moved their transmitter farther south, and the signal into T.O. went with it.

As you know, it used to come in great here. Barely even needed a dipole antenna to get it. Now, nothing but static (and bleed over from CKIS 92.5, which also never existed when you listened.)

 
Sometime in the 90’s a few stations actually moved from the high hills 30 miles south of Buffalo closer to downtown and north Buffalo.
96.1 WMSX co-located to Rand Bldg in downtown with 106.5 WYRK and 93.7 WBLK.
96.9 WGRF and 92.9 WBUF co-located to the same tower in north Buffalo that is at the CH 4 studios. 92.9 has directional FM antennas that point away from Canada.
All the superpower stations 94.5, 99.5, and 102.5 have not changed and still are in the hills south of Buffalo.

 

December 27, 2018 9:08 am  #11


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

This is the free VPN that I use, available as an extension in Google Chrome. I disable it after using it and do not recall any issues:

ZenMate VPN - Best Cyber Security & UnblockZenMate VPN - the best cyber security solution. Encrypt your connection, access our secure proxy servers & unblock websites easily

Last edited by Fitz (December 27, 2018 9:09 am)


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 27, 2018 9:38 am  #12


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I tried Hola for a while - another freebie. But it kept driving my security software crazy with more than occasional warnings about trojan attacks, After a while, it really didn't unblock anything so I deleted it. Too bad. It was good at the beginning. 

PC Mag: The Best Free VPNs of 2018

     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2018 10:57 am  #13


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

One thing I should add is that yes I miss the US stations from years past but with the formats that are available now it's not a huge loss.

I listen to terrestrial radio mostly in the car and I continue to bemoan the fact that there is no decent triple A option in Toronto. The one Buffalo station that I do miss is WBFO which was degraded by a close by local HD signal. WBFO BTW is still on the Rogers cable digital service that I checked yesterday. Zoomer is on there as well but in mono , why ?. The Zoomer people should reach out to Rogers.

Also I think that all the HD sub channels could be much better utilized as they are in the US. Here all we get are the main feeds in HD except for some ethic services and smooth jazz.

In terms of home listening if I was younger I would probably be thrilled at all the internet options. Yes it's MP3 quality but there are a lot of options.

Last edited by Fitz (December 27, 2018 11:07 am)


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 27, 2018 12:37 pm  #14


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I spent my high school years riding a bus 30 miles every day in the Trenton area, , 1970-74. The driver would have always have WKBW AM on the radio . I believe it was Dan Nevereth as morning man. Must have been 1520 but I never really paid attention to that aspect. A bus full of teens made hearing anything clearly impossible. I usually had WCMF FM from Rochester on my own radios.

 

December 27, 2018 1:33 pm  #15


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

WCMF was a wonderful station back then and I would often pull it in especially during the warmer months. I have a few saved air checks of them. That's another signal that's gone from this area now but I think I tuned it the car this past summer but they have long been a predictable classic rock format.


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 27, 2018 2:29 pm  #16


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

I'm dating myself here but I even remember when 92.5 Rochester was an all-news station. I think its calls were WNWZ.

That's correct. It was part of an ill-fated NBC service that went across the U.S. called News and Information Service or NIS. It lasted about two years but lost money and was dumped soon after. I used to listen to it out of Rochester, back when those stations still came in here.

(Courtesy: Faded Signals website)



 

     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2018 2:35 pm  #17


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

I'm really enjoying this thread.

We were really lucky to be able to hear those great Buffalo FMs so clearly in Toronto in the 70s. I also loved WCMF and WMJQ (92.5) from Rochester. WMJQ was around years before Toronto had a station on 92.5 and before 92.5 in Rochester went country. I'm dating myself here but I even remember when 92.5 Rochester was an all-news station. I think its calls were WNWZ.

Wasn't WMJQ the calls that Rock 102 adopted once they switched to Majic 102?  I know they're WTSS now.
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

December 27, 2018 2:44 pm  #18


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Jody Thornton wrote:

Wasn't WMJQ the calls that Rock 102 adopted once they switched to Majic 102?  I know they're WTSS now. 

And in the Rock 102 days, it was WBEN-FM. Despite the fact the AM side still has those calls, the WBEN-FM letters are now assigned to a station in Philadelphia

     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2018 2:58 pm  #19


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

RadioActive wrote:

Jody Thornton wrote:

Wasn't WMJQ the calls that Rock 102 adopted once they switched to Majic 102?  I know they're WTSS now. 

And in the Rock 102 days, it was WBEN-FM. Despite the fact the AM side still has those calls, the WBEN-FM letters are now assigned to a station in Philadelphia

The reason why that's easy for me to remember was the John Borders voice track would come on in the late 70s and early 80s (usually between two hits once an hour) which said "W-B-E-N F-M Buffalo - is Rock 102".

 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

December 27, 2018 6:10 pm  #20


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Depends where you are in the city.  Im in Etobicoke and indoors 102.5 and the high power ones comes in OK levels and in the car they are good.   WKSE 98.5 is being interfered since 98.7 opened up here and WBLK is still decent in the car.

If you are living mid town and are comparing to what the reception was in the 70s can you imagine the landscape of condos thats also interfering? 

Last edited by markow202 (December 27, 2018 6:10 pm)

 

December 27, 2018 8:45 pm  #21


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

RadioActive wrote:

And in the Rock 102 days, it was WBEN-FM. Despite the fact the AM side still has those calls, the WBEN-FM letters are now assigned to a station in Philadelphia

At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I’ve long been curious about this. How is it that a station that is assigned a set of call letters – in this case, WBEN – doesn’t have it exclusively anymore?
 
How can there be a WBEN-AM in Buffalo and a WBEN-FM in Philadelphia, not even owned by the same company? That never used to be the case and I’m pretty sure they don’t allow this in Canada. There may be other instances of this down south and I can’t see why the FCC allows it.
 
Then there’s the strange case of KCBS. An L.A. TV station affiliated with the Eye Network is the owned and operated KCBS-TV. But its AM counterpart is KNX. KCBS-AM is located far upstate in San Francisco. But KCBS-FM, which runs a Jack format, is back in L.A. They’re owned by the same company, but how in the world did that happen?
 
Many stations have all but abandoned their call letters in recent years in favour of rebranding as something more identifiable. But I can’t imagine them letting the letters go willingly regardless. What exactly are the rules on this in the U.S.? Are there any rules? Anyone know?

[Edit: This column from 2014 appears to address this issue and suggests the reason.]

Last edited by RadioActive (December 27, 2018 9:35 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2018 9:56 pm  #22


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Here is a list that I made in perhaps late 1975 or 1976. The list consists of the DJ line-ups at some of the stations covered in this thread. Was based on my memory ( and spelling) at the time and included
( mostly) weekday line-ups from maybe 1970 thru 1976.

The first group is from WYSL/WPHD, the second WCMF, then WBUF ( which was a relative newcomer then) and finally CHUM FM beginning with the line-up when I began listening to them around 1970 and ending with the line-up as of 1976.

There's definite omissions as I know Unkle Roger McCall Began at WPHD, Jim Sotay ( former WABX DJ)  also worked there in addition to WCMF. I remember a lady named Dinah Vapron who later went to WBCN working at WPHD.

These were my most listened to stations around this time but I caught many more. WGRQ had an interesting format at one time kind of a hybrid top 40 & FM and I wish I had made some tapes of that. 

BTW I believe there is a new WPHD somewhere in the northeast.




 

Last edited by Fitz (December 27, 2018 9:57 pm)


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 28, 2018 1:11 am  #23


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Thanks re VPN idea... that seems to work well here.

 

December 28, 2018 12:59 pm  #24


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

I also recall a station out of Rochester , it may have even been AM, that played hard rock album tracks all day until 6 pm, then became all religious for the rest of the evening. This would have been 1972ish ? Anyone  remember that one ? 

 

December 28, 2018 3:06 pm  #25


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

mic'em wrote:

I also recall a station out of Rochester , it may have even been AM, that played hard rock album tracks all day until 6 pm, then became all religious for the rest of the evening. This would have been 1972ish ? Anyone  remember that one ? 

I remember listening to at station only once when i was driving on the 401 maybe east of Coburg around 1975/76 and one of the tracks they played was by Gabor Szabo. I tried to tune it in Toronto and was never successful. I just googled the call letters and they were WSAY AM 1370 and apparently were progressive until 1979. I think they may have gone full time progressive at some point. Not sure if that's the station you are thinking of. Thet were not hard album rock but progressive.
 

Last edited by Fitz (December 28, 2018 3:19 pm)


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

December 29, 2018 8:37 pm  #26


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Great thread!
Growing up in Toronto in the late 70's and early 80's listening to Rock 102 with Roger Christian.  
It was great when they were automated because it didn't take you long to figure out what song was coming next so that you could tape it.
Good times.

 

December 29, 2018 8:48 pm  #27


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Davester wrote:

Great thread!
Growing up in Toronto in the late 70's and early 80's listening to Rock 102 with Roger Christian.  
It was great when they were automated because it didn't take you long to figure out what song was coming next so that you could tape it.
Good times.

I would stick BASF 90 minute Chrome tapes in my deck and hit record.  The sound quality was stellar for the time.

I noticed that in the morning Roger Christian would cut in between the automation reels.  Sounded almost out of place ...lol
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

December 29, 2018 11:28 pm  #28


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Jody Thornton wrote:

Davester wrote:

Great thread!
Growing up in Toronto in the late 70's and early 80's listening to Rock 102 with Roger Christian.  
It was great when they were automated because it didn't take you long to figure out what song was coming next so that you could tape it.
Good times.

I would stick BASF 90 minute Chrome tapes in my deck and hit record.  The sound quality was stellar for the time.

I noticed that in the morning Roger Christian would cut in between the automation reels.  Sounded almost out of place ...lol
 

LOL... me too Jody.  I know I have a C-90 somewhere from a July 1982 broadcast.

Davester.
 

 

December 29, 2018 11:35 pm  #29


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Davester wrote:

Jody Thornton wrote:

Davester wrote:

Great thread!
Growing up in Toronto in the late 70's and early 80's listening to Rock 102 with Roger Christian.  
It was great when they were automated because it didn't take you long to figure out what song was coming next so that you could tape it.
Good times.

I would stick BASF 90 minute Chrome tapes in my deck and hit record.  The sound quality was stellar for the time.

I noticed that in the morning Roger Christian would cut in between the automation reels.  Sounded almost out of place ...lol
 

LOL... me too Jody.  I know I have a C-90 somewhere from a July 1982 broadcast.

Davester.
 

You have to post that audio 
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

December 30, 2018 10:56 am  #30


Re: Buffalo FM Is Virtually Gone From The GTA

Fitz wrote:

mic'em wrote:

I also recall a station out of Rochester , it may have even been AM, that played hard rock album tracks all day until 6 pm, then became all religious for the rest of the evening. This would have been 1972ish ? Anyone  remember that one ? 

I remember listening to at station only once when i was driving on the 401 maybe east of Coburg around 1975/76 and one of the tracks they played was by Gabor Szabo. I tried to tune it in Toronto and was never successful. I just googled the call letters and they were WSAY AM 1370 and apparently were progressive until 1979. I think they may have gone full time progressive at some point. Not sure if that's the station you are thinking of. Thet were not hard album rock but progressive.
 

I do remember the summer of 1973 I had a 1968 Torino convertible that only had a AM radio. That station came in as clearly as CJBQ did from next door Belleville. If I didn't have an 8 track playing, I had that station on in the car. They played album sides as well as individual tracks . I remember hearing The James Gang for the first time on that station and bought the album. Joey Edwards came on CJBQ at 7pm and played top 40 so I would tune in to him at night.