I read that article and found it interesting. 
As many here know, I'm not a fan of the CBC and I despise government-owned media on principle. But it may surprise some to hear I would like the CBC radio services to continue. They are almost always #1 or 2 in the ratings in their markets and it's obvious people are listening. Whether that's because there are no commercials or they simply enjoy the programming is hard to say. Maybe a combo of both. 

It's the money spent for CBC TV I question. The ratings show they don't tend to attract a lot of eyeballs (The National's numbers are downright embarrassing) and they're really not worth all these taxpayers dollars if so few are watching. Perhaps they can continue with a pared down schedule - only a few shows that are big hits, like Son of a Critch. But much of their stuff isn't worth the dollars. 

I'd say shut down the CBC and give it quite rightfully to Bell, Corus and Rogers.

Great article, thanks for posting andysradio.  Even the comments about the piece have been more thoughtful and considerate than normal.  Or at least so far they have been. 

One thing that confuses me would be why anyone would dispise "government owned" media.  First off the term government owned is incorrect.  CBC and TVO for that matter, are public broadcasters and are not set up to be mouthpieces of the government.  Is anyone going to argue that TVO is a mouthpiece or espouses Conservative propaganda? They and CBC are mostly funded by the public through taxes.  Governments come and go but these broadcasters their programming and employees stay. 

I agree that CBC tends to view the world and country from a more left of centre position.  I wouldn't go nearly as far as saying that they are a propaganda instrument of the Liberals.  Big exaggeration and not true.

Want to see an example of a propaganda media instrument?  FOX News Network would be an example of a network that is totally slanted to one side for the benefit of one political party or ideology.  And FOX has no connection with government money, or supported by the taxpayer.  It is free enterprise and they are much more guilty of biased news reporting and proven to be outright liars. They have the lawsuits to prove it.  FOX will be spending more time in court and likely writing more cheques in the months ahead. 

Personally I am not a fan of CBC boss Catherine Tait, and don't agree with the direction of the English network.  She will be let go or leave in time, and hopefully a new CEO will be less fixated on virtue signalling, news features and programming that is constantly reminding Canadians how diverse, multicultural and open minded we are.  Enough of the lectures and teaching moments please.  Let's move on.

The Conservatives, if they do become the next government have a great opportunity to get CBC English television back to being what it should be.  A network that most Canadians relate to, enjoy and can see stories that sometimes have another point of view.

Shutting down or defunding all or part of CBC/Radio Canada is absolutely 100% the wrong thing to do.  All of the private networks are going through a very hard time right now with programming (other than sports and some news) that the public seems to be less interested in.  The private networks in the US and here are in cut back mode, and most are losing money.  Some may not survive or will amalgamate with competing companies. 

Public broadcasters like the CBC English network are needed more than ever. That doesn't mean that they get a free pass and continue as they are right now.

CBC needs to change, and they must be a service that people, and not just elites watch.  This could mean offering some mainstream entertainment shows that the upper crust may not like.  BBC TV and other public broadcasters have done this for decades.  CBC English TV needs to be more relatable, and something that the Canadian public will at least consider watching.  Because right now with only a few exceptions, the publilc is not watching our public English TV network in sufficient numbers. 

MJ Vancouver wrote:

BowmanvilleBob wrote:

Here's a few thoughts...
As someone who's heard "defund the CBC" bellowing from a number of federal and provincial right-wing governments over the years, my ask is a simple one - just go ahead and try.
Both Brian Mulroney and Stephen Harper had significant majorities and the political capital needed to "defund" the CBC, but neither of them chose to take the hard steps necessary to close down stations across the country and throw hundreds of people out of work. They didn't have the intestinal fortitude to face the long list of legal challenges such a move would undoubtedly cause, nor did they want to face the backlash that would arise for spending hundreds of millions of dollars to accomplish a goal that only a few rigid ideologues in their ranks actually cared about. Instead, they chose to either decrease the CBC's funding (Mulroney) or fill the CBC's board of directors with Tory supporters (Harper).
I'm guessing PP, for all his bluster, will undoubtedly choose to go down much the same road as his predecessors. As Ken Whyte suggests, the Tories will undoubtedly conduct some sort of "cultural policy review" which will bellow about the need for more conservative voices to be heard and a few rounds of budget cuts will occur at CBC Headquarters. But when the political winds shift and online streaming services become the norm, rather than the exception, I'm betting the CBC will emerge as a stronger player than any of Canada's private broadcasters, who are still stuck in the dark ages as they milk the last few bucks from conventional TV.

 

The CBC, under Mulroney, did in fact close numerous television stations, notably including Windsor, Saskatoon and Calgary and also a number of smaller ones in Atlantic Canada and also several French stations. Windsor and Calgary were later restored after a change in government, but the damage was done; the private broadcasters beefed up their news departments and viewers didn’t come back to the “new” CBC Calgary. But that was also at a time there was a lot more money in private broadcasting.

At this point in time, getting rid of CBC English television would have minimal impact on local news availability in large markets like Toronto or Vancouver, but it would have a far more significant impact on parts of the country with little or no competition. Prince Edward Island and the North, for instance; and also Ottawa would left with only one local English newscast by way of CTV (CJOH).

This is true MJ CBC/Radio Canada had some major cutbacks during the Mulroney era.  I am of the take that it wasn't so much ideology driven by the Conservatives but rather because Canada's debt was getting to be out of control.  Because of sky high interest rates governments in the 80's were spending huge amounts every month just paying interest on the growing debt.  CBC and other government departments were reeling in expenses and cuts were imposed.  

However worth noting that it was also under Mulroney that the CBC opened their then state of the art $350 million new complex in Toronto in 1993.  For decades various governments talked about building much needed new facilities for CBC in Toronto, but it was the conservatives that actually got it done and appropriated the additional money to do it. 

As far as Harper stacking the CBC/RC board of directors with conservatives.  You wouldn't know it since CBC programming or philosopy had no marked change during this time. 

BowmanvilleBob wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

As far as Harper stacking the CBC/RC board of directors with conservatives.  You wouldn't know it since CBC programming or philosopy had no marked change during this time. 

Yet this move gave Harper the political cover to say to his supporters that while he couldn't close the CBC, "our people" were now in charge. That, combined with a number of funding cuts, had the impact of cutting early afternoon childrens/after school programming across the network in favour of reruns, as well as (briefly) acquiring the rights to show Jeopardy as a potential lead in to prime time programming. Not all influencing has to be overt when the same message can be conveyed through less visible means to the public.

I don't remember Harper ever making defunding or closing the CBC any part of his various campaigns. I have come to believe that all of the dark and scary "hidden agenda" talk about his government was a bunch of bunk and never materialized.  He had a majority and could have changed many things much more than he ever did.  The conservatives had nothing to do with CBC running Jeopardy.  CBC also ran Wheel Of Fortune for a time.  So what?  I do remember when this happened groups like Friends Of Canadian Media wailing and whining about this for months.  This is the group that wants CBC to focus more on the arts and high culture, get double the funding and drop all adveretising.  As if...    

I guess if you want to live your life that there is a "boogie man" around every corner, and everything really has another hidden and sinister meaning.  Have at it...

But who in the Conservative Party is going to tell Poilievre to pull back his "defund the CBC" rhetoric which AFAIK is a pledge to *completely* defund English CBC?

Last edited by Hansa (September 2, 2024 1:53 pm)

BowmanvilleBob wrote:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/second-opinion-scientists-muzzled-1.4588913

Enjoy your Labour Day holiday.

The opinion piece you posted has nothing to do with broadcasting or what we were talking about.  But yes I am enjoying Labour Day, and you as well. 

But a few points from your other post about CBC picking up some US programming to attempt to show the former government that the corp. was willing to embrace popular television.  CBC ran US programming for years, and currently has programming from the UK and Australia which is not new.  Even today during Christmas, almost all of the movies they show during December are from the US.

They phased out the American programming on their regular schedules years ago primarily because for a long time the private networks had complained that the CBC bidding was inflating up the price for US imports, and CBC was using taxpayer dollar to do this.  Also the fact that the media landscape had expanded so much and many more channels were available, it was no longer necessary for CBC to carry US programming on their regular schedules.  CBC agreed with this, and promoted the fact that they were all Canadian in prime time. 

Canadian Idol was on CTV for six seasons and So You Think You Can Dance Canada four.  I thought Canadian Idol was better than either the British or US versions, but by season six ratings had softened considerably.  Since CTV ran both the US and Canadian Idols for years, maybe Canadians had seen enough.  American Idol eventually left the network for a number of years as well, although still popular in the US. 

Seems like an odd thing for a CTV executive would say since Bell has greatly increased their monies spent on TV productions since the days of either Canadian Idol or SYTYCDC.  Crave alone went from having zero original programming to adding 12 new original shows this year alone.  In the spring upfronts Bell had commissioned 98 original programs and series which equalled the record number of productions set last year.  More money is now directed to their streamers, some specialty channels and less to conventional TV.  All media companies seem to be doing this.

Canadian film and TV production is doing great.  44% of all money spent in 2022-23 ($12.19 billion) was on Canadian TV and film according to the latest CRTC report.  Domestic productions totalled $5.36 billion of the total.  International production was $6.86 billion of which the US made up $5.07 billion.    


 

Saul wrote:

I'd say shut down the CBC and give it quite rightfully to Bell, Corus and Rogers.

Switch the order of those two ideas and you would have a true scenario.
 

BowmanvilleBob wrote:

MJ Vancouver wrote:

BowmanvilleBob wrote:

Here's a few thoughts...
As someone who's heard "defund the CBC" bellowing from a number of federal and provincial right-wing governments over the years, my ask is a simple one - just go ahead and try.
Both Brian Mulroney and Stephen Harper had significant majorities and the political capital needed to "defund" the CBC, but neither of them chose to take the hard steps necessary to close down stations across the country and throw hundreds of people out of work. They didn't have the intestinal fortitude to face the long list of legal challenges such a move would undoubtedly cause, nor did they want to face the backlash that would arise for spending hundreds of millions of dollars to accomplish a goal that only a few rigid ideologues in their ranks actually cared about. Instead, they chose to either decrease the CBC's funding (Mulroney) or fill the CBC's board of directors with Tory supporters (Harper).
I'm guessing PP, for all his bluster, will undoubtedly choose to go down much the same road as his predecessors. As Ken Whyte suggests, the Tories will undoubtedly conduct some sort of "cultural policy review" which will bellow about the need for more conservative voices to be heard and a few rounds of budget cuts will occur at CBC Headquarters. But when the political winds shift and online streaming services become the norm, rather than the exception, I'm betting the CBC will emerge as a stronger player than any of Canada's private broadcasters, who are still stuck in the dark ages as they milk the last few bucks from conventional TV.

 

The CBC, under Mulroney, did in fact close numerous television stations, notably including Windsor, Saskatoon and Calgary and also a number of smaller ones in Atlantic Canada and also several French stations. Windsor and Calgary were later restored after a change in government, but the damage was done; the private broadcasters beefed up their news departments and viewers didn’t come back to the “new” CBC Calgary. But that was also at a time there was a lot more money in private broadcasting.

At this point in time, getting rid of CBC English television would have minimal impact on local news availability in large markets like Toronto or Vancouver, but it would have a far more significant impact on parts of the country with little or no competition. Prince Edward Island and the North, for instance; and also Ottawa would left with only one local English newscast by way of CTV (CJOH).

At that time, there were far fewer options for local news in the markets you mentioned. I certainly don't recall hearing of any of the private stations in those markets "beefing up" resources. Indeed, my recollection of the time, at least when I was in Saskatchewan, was that the private networks felt even less constrained to provide news content for their local stations. In any case, the CBC at least chose to retain news bureaus in those cities where the stations were shut down, rather than completely leaving town. Contrast that to Bell, who closed local TV outlets in Brandon, Red Deer and Wingham, leaving locals feeling abandoned by the loss of stations that had served their communities for many years.
Station closures are, and should be, a last resort for any broadcasters whether they're public or privately run. In both cases, the CBC and Bell shut down stations that deliberately maximized the political fallout to show their displeasure to the federal government of the day regarding funding or regulatory relief issues.
All this to say, I agree with Paterson1 that the CBC is far from perfect and deserves scrutiny in these rapidly changing times. But if government funding bothers you, I'd suggest you look at the Canadian media landscape as a whole, rather than just Mother Corp. Should our taxpayer dollars be used to support two-quasi Canadian celebrities help Hollywood movie stars renovate homes for their buddies? Should it be used to fund shows featuring two young chefs hopping around places like Greece, Argentina and Mexico to cook "fabulous" meals using locally sourced ingredients? Should Postmedia, which is largely owned by American hedge funds, accept government support to keep itself even minimally staffed because an ever-growing number of people have turned their back on newspapers?

As the old saying goes: "slogans are easy, governing his hard".
 

The “beefing up” I was referring to was mostly Windsor - Baton Broadcasting swooped in and started CHWI (now known as CTV Windsor) in 1993. CKCO also increased its coverage of Windsor in the early 90s. I’m not as familiar with Calgary.

Dump CBC Music. Revert to the former Radio II format. Mostly jazz and classical. That's the way it was when Radio II was available only in Canada's major cities. But when they started expanding the network out to small towns like London, Kingston and Cabbageville, the Toronto elitists at CBC felt they had to dumb it down for us hayseeds out here. They thought to attract more listeners. It hasn't worked for them.

Circling back to one idea in the original post…

If CBC TV itself is scrapped, do you think CBC News Network should take its place on OTA TV, and have cut ins for the 6 PM regional newscasts?

You could always stream the Toronto stations you miss on your phone. That would be one way to hear an alternate. 

I'm sure the commercial networks would be thrilled if CBC Radio went heavily into local advertising and if CBC Television resumed bidding for US content and the accompanying commercial revenue - given that it was they who asked the Mulroney Tories to stop CBC from competing with them for American shows.

Poilievre hasn't said anything about keeping any funding for English CBC. While "defund" is an ambiguous term there's no reason to assume he intends to maintain any level of public funding outside of French broadcasting.

Last edited by Hansa (September 3, 2024 3:47 pm)

RadioActive wrote:

I believe his attacks have all been again the English TV side and he has said he likely would not touch radio, knowing a lot of people listen. But he's a politician so you can't really believe anything any of them say. 

Can anyone cite a source where Poilievre or his campaign has said he'd likely not touch radio? Didn't the Tories say last election there shouldn't be a CBC News website or CBC app (ie Gem)?