1 - RadioActive
- Moderator
Offline 
Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
The question remains - what will happen when new owner Neeti Ray finally gets around to programming 1150? There has been a lot of speculation here that he might try taking it back to its glory Top 40/Oldies days.
I can think of one reason to do it - the publicity and the nostalgia factor will at least initially attract some ears.
But I can think of at least three others why it's a terrible idea.
1) Music on AM isn't exactly on fire these days, although a station that appeals to an older demo might negate some of the disadvantage, especially if they grew up listening to it. But it likely won't be enough to convince advertisers to fork over many bucks.
2) Resurrecting the old CKOC sounded like an interesting idea once, but along came CFAJ and stole the oldies-on-AM-with-a-wider-playlist idea right out from under them. I believe 1220 comes in just fine in Hamilton. (I have yet to hear a paid ad on that station, which also does not bode well for 1150.) And so does 740, another AM signal playing the same kind of older music.
3) But the biggest reason not to try to recreate Oldies 1150 can be summed up in two words: "The Grand." 92.9 didn't exist at the time CKOC was doing music. And not only are they playing all the same hits on a superior FM band in stereo, half the jocks (including Ted Yates and Rockin' Ray Michaels) used to work at CKOC. So it could be said the station has already been recreated in a much better way.
So then the question remains: what would you do with CKOC if you were looking to start over? Classic Country? All infomercials? Paid time? Part time ethnic? Some kind of local news station (although CHML handles that quite well)? How about all traffic, including Toronto?
I'm not sure what they'll do with it, but as much as I like the nostalgia factor, I honestly believe oldies will no longer be effective there. So I suspect something else awaits.
Just when we'll find out is another matter.
- Radiowiz
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
RadioActive wrote:
So then the question remains: what would you do with CKOC if you were looking to start over? Classic Country?
NO. Classic Country (or perhaps variety Country) will appear on sister station 820 CHAM, no doubt.
1150 will most likely end up being a compliment to Flow 98.7 with classic throwbacks that go waaay back.
RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person.
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
It'll probably be Oldies and that's a bad idea for the reasons you mentioned.
- km93
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
@RadioActive The Grand 's signal struggles in parts of Hamilton especially downtown and in the east end-unless it's improved recently (I no longer live in the Hamilton area). I recall picking up sister/clone station to The Grand-The Lake fairly clearly in the Burlington area-but neither are very powerful signals and are subject to interference. 1150 on the other hand is a strong signal.
Have to disagree re: CHML. They have tossed a lot of locally focused news/talk and likely more to go given the recent announcements from their parent company, so locally focused talk combined with "Oldies" might actually work.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
Finding a format hole and finding a business case, while obviously related, are two very different endeavours.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
So then the question remains: what would you do with CKOC if you were looking to start over? Classic Country?
NO. Classic Country (or perhaps variety Country) will appear on sister station 820 CHAM, no doubt.
1150 will most likely end up being a compliment to Flow 98.7 with classic throwbacks that go waaay back.
The novelty of hearing Mastero Fresh Wes every third song will wear out pretty quickly.
- Radiowiz
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
So then the question remains: what would you do with CKOC if you were looking to start over? Classic Country?
NO. Classic Country (or perhaps variety Country) will appear on sister station 820 CHAM, no doubt.
1150 will most likely end up being a compliment to Flow 98.7 with classic throwbacks that go waaay back.
The novelty of hearing Mastero Fresh Wes every third song will wear out pretty quickly.
Further back.
RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person.
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
NO. Classic Country (or perhaps variety Country) will appear on sister station 820 CHAM, no doubt.
1150 will most likely end up being a compliment to Flow 98.7 with classic throwbacks that go waaay back.
The novelty of hearing Mastero Fresh Wes every third song will wear out pretty quickly.
Further back.
Who then?
- Radiowiz
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
The novelty of hearing Mastero Fresh Wes every third song will wear out pretty quickly.
Further back.
Who then?
I just checked, they'd be up against Buffalo's R&B station, 1400/107.3 but they (The American station) don't have to play 35-40% Can Con, so maybe the idea of an R&B 1150 won't work, and you were correct in the first place.
However, I was thinking more along the lines of 70's 80's. No 90's. Throw in some 60's.
Last edited by Radiowiz (August 5, 2024 11:11 am)
RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person.
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
"Let Your Backbone Slide" came out in 1989 and was Canada's first Rap hit.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
I would go with a station that is focused heavy on Hamilton and Niagara with news and local sports, a couple of talk shows. Possibly some sports with McMaster hockey or football teams. Sort of like a community station but on AM.
Since CKOC and CHCH both are in Hamilton and independents, they should look at some sort of arrangement for cross promotion of some contests, personalities, news. Maybe news updates from the CHCH newsroom. A talk show or program with the recently retired Bill Kelly? Or any other talk alumni from CHML or CKTB? How about CHCH sports legend Clint "Bubba" O'Neil with a weekly sports talk show?
These two outlets need each other, sitting next door to Toronto in a sea of corporate radio and TV. Both should take advantage of the fact that Hamilton is underserved by local media and they are both not tied to any conglomerate. The cross promotion for CHCH and CKOC would be a big plus for both of them.
I guess when it comes to any music they could play oldies, but I wouldn't get into the 50's music much. Keep it a bit of 60's but more 70's-to early 2000's. And if possible have a few announcers that know music and actually talk about songs and the artists. Roger A....Gord James. .The Hammer is calling!
Hate to say it, but they may need to go with some sponsored block programming later in the evening or some weekend slots.
- Saul
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
I would go with a station that is focused heavy on Hamilton and Niagara with news and local sports, a couple of talk shows. Possibly some sports with McMaster hockey or football teams. Sort of like a community station but on AM.
Since CKOC and CHCH both are in Hamilton and independents, they should look at some sort of arrangement for cross promotion of some contests, personalities, news. Maybe news updates from the CHCH newsroom. A talk show or program with the recently retired Bill Kelly? Or any other talk alumni from CHML or CKTB? How about CHCH sports legend Clint "Bubba" O'Neil with a weekly sports talk show?
These two outlets need each other, sitting next door to Toronto in a sea of corporate radio and TV. Both should take advantage of the fact that Hamilton is underserved by local media and they are both not tied to any conglomerate. The cross promotion for CHCH and CKOC would be a big plus for both of them.
I guess when it comes to any music they could play oldies, but I wouldn't get into the 50's music much. Keep it a bit of 60's but more 70's-to early 2000's. And if possible have a few announcers that know music and actually talk about songs and the artists. Roger A....Gord James. .The Hammer is calling!
Hate to say it, but they may need to go with some sponsored block programming later in the evening or some weekend slots.
I think it's a long haul to make any AMs work in a medium market like Hamilton, but if it's attempted it has to have the community identity you describe. Intensely Hamilton.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
A CHCH/CKOC relationship would be heavily lopsided in favour of CKOC.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
Well not to play, or close the station is not an option right now. Yes it would heavily favour CKOC but CHCH also dearly needs any added exposure.
If they were to come to some arrangement and if successful, they could explore CKOC could moving into the new CHCH building, and lease out some space. CHCH has the room. Even the possibility of being affiliated on the corporate level.
I agree Saul, it would be a ton of work and a long haul, but there is also the opportunity for a lot of fun and the chance to be successful in a city and region that is booming. Also some great new advertising opportunities for both CKOC and CHCH.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
What's in it for CHCH, unless CKOC literally pays them for the privilege? CKOC will be a long time away from being a viable promotional vehicle for anyone - if ever.
CHCH's bread and butter is its local news blocks that mostly air in radio prime-time, selling local ads at radio rates. They'd be competitors.
The only way CHCH benefits is if CKOC simulcasts the news blocks, including ads.
- Radiowiz
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
The only way CHCH benefits is if CKOC simulcasts the news blocks, including ads.
They would have bought CKOC if it were such a great idea for the two to work together, no?
RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person.
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
They have always been competitors, but that doesn't mean they can't work together. Like I said, these two need each other. If it there were some positive results from this, common ownership eventually would be logical. CHCH is even more alone that CKOC which at least has other stations in the in their family.
If it is only benefiting CKOC (which it is not) you could also run some CHCH promos on Flow and 820.
However, we are getting side tracked, the emphasis would be CKOC and CHCH. I think it could work, and CKOC with a community based programming format is a hundred times better and could be more successful than what they have had for years. Again, Hamilton and area is booming and these local stations should take advantage.
A big plus why Hamilton and area is growing is because Hamilton is much easier to get around than Toronto. Even Hamiltons many one way streets that some don't like, keep traffic moving, and it is easy and quick to get from one part of town to another. I worked in Hamilton for three years and couldn't believe how the traffic always moved, even when busy. Only times it wouldn't was for construction or an accident.
Hamilton is also heavily investing in infrastructure and mass transit to accomodate the growth, which is outpacing the provincial average. From the CVL group......,about%20it%E2%80%94Hamilton%20is%20expanding.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
They have always been competitors, but that doesn't mean they can't work together. Like I said, these two need each other. If it there were some positive results from this, common ownership eventually would be logical. CHCH is even more alone that CKOC which at least has other stations in the in their family.
CHCH is funded by porn.
- mace
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
Further back.Who then?
I just checked, they'd be up against Buffalo's R&B station, 1400/107.3 but they (The American station) don't have to play 35-40% Can Con, so maybe the idea of an R&B 1150 won't work, and you were correct in the first place.
However, I was thinking more along the lines of 70's 80's. No 90's. Throw in some 60's.
WWWS has a power of 745 watts. Even with a good quality radio, their signal is barely audible in the GTA. Being on a graveyard frequency like 1400 means their night signal would be non-existant here.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
If it is only benefiting CKOC (which it is not) you could also run some CHCH promos on Flow and 820.
Talk about spitting into the wind.
- Saul
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
...it would be a ton of work and a long haul, but there is also the opportunity for a lot of fun and the chance to be successful in a city and region that is booming. Also some great new advertising opportunities for both CKOC and CHCH.
The 'fun' element for the people running would unquestionably be the main if not only incentive to attempt this. We also have to remember that we, here at SOWNY, have a special passion for radio that most of the public do not share. Success with an oldies or classic country or frankly any other format, alone, is not enough. And it can't be limited to cutesy chitchat and banter by DJ hosts in between tracks. It has to be Hamilton (and arguably Niagara / perhaps some degree of surrounding region) in a kind of iconic sense. IMO the fun has to come from a serious effort by people who want to live and play and breathe in Hamilton. That could be just the staff (from on-air to ad reps), so long as the owner supports that wholeheartedly and spends at least some meaningful quality time in Hamilton.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
If it is only benefiting CKOC (which it is not) you could also run some CHCH promos on Flow and 820.
Talk about spitting into the wind.
All these ideas and all you do is condemn and offer nothing. How sad some can't think or dream out of the corporate box. A corporate box that has done it's own spitting into the wind and continues to. More panic sales coming up for conglomerate radio stations at big, big discounted prices?? They certainly read the market right didn't they...
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
I'm not providing any because there aren't any.
This was a foolish purchase.
- RadioQuiz
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
If you wanted to play music - this would be an option.
Just do it and ask for donations.
You have to make the station relevant and that is very hard to do considering it's been irrelevant for decades AND there are tons of better sound quality options.
You would have to be prepared to out-market your competition which will take savvy and cash.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
You would have to be prepared to out-market your competition which will take savvy and cash.
Well, CINA's time with 98.7 isn't very encouraging on that front.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
...it would be a ton of work and a long haul, but there is also the opportunity for a lot of fun and the chance to be successful in a city and region that is booming. Also some great new advertising opportunities for both CKOC and CHCH.
The 'fun' element for the people running would unquestionably be the main if not only incentive to attempt this. We also have to remember that we, here at SOWNY, have a special passion for radio that most of the public do not share. Success with an oldies or classic country or frankly any other format, alone, is not enough. And it can't be limited to cutesy chitchat and banter by DJ hosts in between tracks. It has to be Hamilton (and arguably Niagara / perhaps some degree of surrounding region) in a kind of iconic sense. IMO the fun has to come from a serious effort by people who want to live and play and breathe in Hamilton. That could be just the staff (from on-air to ad reps), so long as the owner supports that wholeheartedly and spends at least some meaningful quality time in Hamilton.
Agree with you Saul. This isn't about playtime or overly mindless banter on air, although a bit is ok as long as it's funny or the hosts and audience are engaged. True, those of us on SOWNY are much more passionate about radio than the average listener who doesn't think about radio that much or at all.
.However people do connect and think about where they live. Hamilton and Niagara, always living in the shadow of Toronto, and often overlooked, could be ready for a station more oriented to them and what interests them. It would be a niche that isn't being served by anyone right now. And an association with CHCH, and even The Spectator would benefit the parties involved and most of all the audience and advertisers.
And if you could entice a Bill Kelly, Gord James or great sports talk host like Bubba O'Neil or former CHCH sports director Ken Welch would right away give CKOC some much needed credibility. A community station on AM with large coverage area and 50,000 watts, in an area that has strong growth. Might be well worth the gamble.
- turkeytop
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
Before I retired, I was up and down the 401 a lot between London and Windsor. I used to pick up a station from some small town in Ohio that was All Polka.
After all is said and done, more is usually said than done.
- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
And if you could entice a Bill Kelly, Gord James or great sports talk host like Bubba O'Neil or former CHCH sports director Ken Welch would right away give CKOC some much needed credibility.
You know those guys would want to be paid with actual money, right?
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Will CKOC Go Back To Oldies?
And if you could entice a Bill Kelly, Gord James or great sports talk host like Bubba O'Neil or former CHCH sports director Ken Welch would right away give CKOC some much needed credibility.
You know those guys would want to be paid with actual money, right?
Of course, and they are all retired except Bubba. Some would be weekly shows.