So what happens to these stations once Mr. Ray gets his hands on them? There are some clues in the documents filed with the CRTC, but maybe I'm misinterpreting what they say. For example:

"Each station’s programming is proposed to continue as it has been."

That would appear to indicate no immediate format changes. But I don't believe for a second the Oldies format (Windsor), the Comedy Format (CHAM) and especially the Business Format (CKOC) will continue. Another hint:

"In Windsor, the Applicant currently owns CINA-FM, which is a multicultural station airing programming in twelve different languages, with a focus on Arabic-language programming. By contrast, the Windsor station to be acquired, CKWW-AM, is an English-language “oldies” station. The two stations are very different from one another.

As the Applicant plans to continue operating CKWW under its current conditions of licence, the levels of diversity and competition will not change."

Of course, "current conditions of licence" has nothing to do with format. 

Then there's this:

"The two Hamilton stations, CHAM-AM and CKOC-AM, already operate in the same market and their relationship to each other will not change. The Windsor station, CKWW-AM, focuses on classic musical hits, whereas the Applicant’s existing station in Windsor, CINA-FM, is an ethnic station that primarily serves the Arabic-language market. The focus of each acquired station is not expected to change."

That last sentence has me wondering.

Meanwhile, all three stations will have a new home. 

"CKWW will be programmed and operated from the Applicant’s existing station’s premises."

And

"The applicant will operate CKWW Windsor from his existing facility in Windsor, located at 1368 Ouellette Avenue, from which his company, CINA Radio Group, already operates CINA-FM Windsor. The applicant plans to operate CHAM Hamilton and CKOC Hamilton from a facility in Hamilton that has not yet been leased."

So there's a lot of mystery surrounding what will happen to these legendary stations. Ethnic? Keep the format? Change into a networked operation of some kind? It should be interesting to keep an eye on this, but I know I will miss the comedy on CHAM when it eventually happens. It's a great alternative when there's simply nothing else on worth listening to. 

The very worst thing he could do is turn them into leased time stations, with 24-hours of non-stop infomercials for "Purity" products and that ilk. 

Saul wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

....to CINA radio, current licensee of CINA 1650 Mississauga, FLOW 98.7.Toronto, and CINA-FM Windsor. All three go for a total of $455,000.

That's less than the price of a low-end condo in Toronto.
 

SOWNY members should have formed a co-op. 😉

tvguy wrote:

My 2 cents worth.  All English language broadcasters can allocate a portion of their schedule to ethnic programs, between 6 a.m. and midnight.  It's in the Radio Regulations.   If there is an ethnic station licensed to serve the market, then up to 40% of the programming can be ethnic.  That's a lot of hours a week on each of CHAM and CKOC.  If there is an ethnic station in the market, then they would each be limited to 15% of their weekly 6 a.m. to midnight hours - around 18+ hours per station.  It will come down to whether under current CRTC "market" definitions there is an ethnic station that serves the market.   The nearest ethnic station would be, I believe CJMR Mississauga/Oakville, but CHIN-FM might have a 3 mV/m signal over the Hamilton market.

• (4) Despite subsection (3), an A.M. licensee, F.M. licensee or digital radio licensee that is licensed to operate a community station or campus station may devote


• (a) if it is broadcasting in a market where there is no ethnic station, up to 40% of a broadcast week to third language programs; or
• (b) if it is broadcasting in a market where there is at least one ethnic station, except as otherwise provided by a condition of its licence, up to 15% of a broadcast week to third language programs.

 

Oh, interesting. I only knew about (b), not (a).

The CRTC would most definitely consider Hamilton a separate market, otherwise a whole multitude of rules would already be broken. ie: CORUS has 4 FMs and 2 AMs, and Bell has 3 FMs and 4 AMs "in the market"

Last edited by RadioAaron (November 16, 2023 7:08 pm)

Interesting the reaction on the Michigan Radio and TV Buzzboard site.  All of of the posters think that CKWW is going to an ethnic non English format, even though the new owner said no changes in the format, and as Aaron pointed out the station is licensed to broadcast in English. 

Besides he already owns CINA FM in Windsor which apparently focuses almost exclusively on the large Arabic population in Dearborn Michigan and some Detroit suburbs.  The station has a sales office in Warren and one poster mentioned whenever he listened to CINA he never once heard a commercial for a business in Windsor.  All ads were for Metro Detroit, especially Dearborn, Sterling Heights, Warren, Southfield etc.   

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

Interesting the reaction on the Michigan Radio and TV Buzzboard site.  All of of the posters think that CKWW is going to an ethnic non English format, even though the new owner said no changes in the format, and as Aaron pointed out the station is licensed to broadcast in English. 
 

I'm starting to think it might be ethnic, at least in prime-time.

Them saying the formats will remain the same isn't binding, and is almost always said.

I didn't know about the 40% rule that would apply to Hamilton, so at least one of those stations will be ethnic in key hours.

As for Windsor, there's already an ethnic station in the market, so they'd be restricted to 15%, but it's co-owned. And given that the CRTC is usually complaint-oriented for such things....

As long as they took notes from the former CHSC, they just might know how to play their cards right.

Paul Jeffries wrote:

If the new owner continued with the current formats, wouldn't they have to pay Bell Media for the Funny service as well as the BNN service, not to mention use of the stations' monikers? Considering the fact that neither of those are winning formats, that wouldn't seem very cost effective.


PJ

Not sure about Business news, but Funny is not Bell controlled.

RadioActive wrote:

I think we're all convinced the current formats won't survive, especially in Hamilton. I'd love to see them leave CKWW alone, but as for CHAM and CKOC, anything is possible. So the question: if they're restricted to the number of hours they can broadcast in other languages, what is your best guess on the new formats? What would you do with these properties? 

I'll wager the Hamilton stations primary use is ethnic. With both stations each able to program 40% third language, alternating programming between the two can create an essentially full-time ethnic format/brand.

RadioAaron wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

I think we're all convinced the current formats won't survive, especially in Hamilton. I'd love to see them leave CKWW alone, but as for CHAM and CKOC, anything is possible. So the question: if they're restricted to the number of hours they can broadcast in other languages, what is your best guess on the new formats? What would you do with these properties? 

I'll wager the Hamilton stations primary use is ethnic. With both stations each able to program 40% third language, alternating programming between the two can create an essentially full-time ethnic format/brand.

And what will fill the time around that 40%? Paid programming?

paterson1 wrote:

 The only issue could be the CRTC, which may not see this as serving Windsor if CINA focused even more on the ethnic audiences around Michigan. 

The CRTC won't get involved in that distinction.

RadioActive wrote:

I realize CKOC & CHAM are licensed to Hamilton, but you have to wonder how many ethnic stations can the GTHA support? Consider all the ones that currently exist in and around Toronto:

There's the three granddaddies of the genre, the CHINs - 1540, 100.7, and 91.9

Then there's CHLO AM 530 (Brampton)
CJMR 1320 (Mississauga)
CIRF 1350 (also Brampton)
CHKT 1430 (Toronto)
CHHA 1610 (Toronto)
CINA 1650 (Mississauga)
CHTO 1690 (Toronto)

CIRV 88.9 (Toronto, with three HD stations, also with ethnic formats)
CJSA 101.3 (Toronto also with three HD stations with separate ethnic formats)
CJRK 102.7 Scarborough
CFMS 105.9 Markham (Although the main channel is AC, there are two ethnic subcarriers.)

 And don't forget WTOR AM 770, the daytimer from Youngstown, N.Y. that is programmed as a Toronto station. 
Plus Sauga 960 does a foreign language block every weekday between 10AM-1PM.

That's at least 16 full or parttime ethnic outlets in essentially the same market. With all of those guys doing foreign language shows, is there really room for yet two more semi-fulltime ethnic stations in this area?

Yes and the main channel of CFMS 105.9 also airs Tamil music overnight from 6pm to 5am. Well over half of these ethnic radio station are targeting the huge and diverse South Asian population of GTA, airing contents in mostly Punjabi, Hindi, Tamil, Urdu and other various languages. A considerable percentage of their program is dedicated to infomercials, with frequent advertising related to ethnic outlets such as restaurants, immigration consultants, real estate agents and more. 820 and 1150 IMO are likely to air South Asian contents in the future, due to the active participation of S.Asian media operators in Canada in general.


The remaining stations such as 1430, 1540, 1610 & 1690 mostly targets other ethnic communities such as Chinese, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Greek, with Chinese contents airing mainly in Cantonese and Mandarin. It is certain to say that there is still availability for new full-time ethnic stations in GTA. However, as the audience is migrating to internet and FM at an everlasting pace, a lot of these outlets might be forced to change their business model in the soon future.

It took a while, but Broadcast Dialogue has finally caught up to this story. Not much here you don't know, but it repeats the new soon-to-be-owner's insistence that there will be no changes at any of the stations - at least at first.

(Even if that were true, 1150's Bloomberg Business format is owned by Bell and there's almost no way he could duplicate it without considerable expense. Even if he wanted to do that for a station with a 0.1 rating. If I read Mr. Ray's previous M.O. right, he's interested in spending as little as possible. In that way, I suppose he mirrors Bell!)

Neeti P. Ray makes bid to buy Bell Media AM stations in Hamilton, Windsor

andysradio wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

What would you do with these properties? 

He could just turn around and sell the transmitter sites as real estate. I understand that the CFRN site in Edmonton has already been taken down.
 

If that added up, Bell would have done it.

Skywave wrote:

Bell is retaining ownership of the sites and can force him to vacate for no reason with six months notice. Details are in the posted application.

If Bell is retaining ownership of the sites and can vacate him with 6 months notice what did he really purchase?
Essentially a 6 month self renewing rental?

I wonder if the new owner ultimately wants the frequencies and has contingency plans to relocate to new premises with much simpler systems. They already have a site in Windsor, though I have no idea if they own it or if it's feasible to also accommodate an AM.