The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Should Stations Abandon Their Formats Just Because It’s Christmas?

RadioActive · December 23, 2016 12:54 pm

Does the fact it’s Christmas mean you can just abandon your format? This comes up every year and after hearing Jerry Agar confirm on Friday that “NewsTalk 1010” would be neither news nor talk from Christmas Eve until roughly Boxing Day, instead playing all holiday music for more than 24 hours, it's back. (I’m guessing AM 640 will go back to its tried and true old radio shows to fill in the time.)

Having worked at a talk station, I fully understand why this time of the season is a problem for formats that don’t play music. Talk and sports stations often find themselves between a rock and hard place. The logic seems to be: who wants to talk about Kathleen Wynne’s incompetence or electricity prices when the world essentially goes to sleep for several days and people want to get away from it (or are not listening)?

And yet consistency is, to me, the most important rule of radio – when you turn on your given frequency expecting to hear a certain style of programming, it shouldn’t disappoint you. But every year we go through this same extreme format alteration.

I faced this annual dilemma myself a long time ago. We were doing a talk show late on December 24th and my co-host and I had to decide – do we go all Christmas or do our regular show? In the end, we picked a hybrid – take phone calls, play the occasional Yule tune but keep the lighter talk going.

What happened surprised us both. We never got so many calls in that time slot. People were thanking us on air for staying with normal programming, as they complained they simply couldn’t find anything else that wasn’t “Oh Come All Ye Faithful.” And I honestly believe we converted some listeners to come back more often after the holidays.

Admittedly it was a different era, when there was no Internet and cable TV was simply used to get Buffalo stations to come in more clearly. So other than the still brand-new VCRs, which not everyone had, there weren’t all that many alternatives. And granted, it’s only 24 hours, and it can be argued most people don’t even turn their radios on, and that those who do pick a CHFI-type place that gives them nothing but Christmas carols and classics.

I’m curious what both industry and non-radio types think about this. Toronto is now one of the most diverse cities in the entire world. While there are many people who celebrate Christmas, there are almost as many who don’t. How do you serve the former without ignoring the latter? Does it even matter?

All I know is I like to listen to the radio on a day when the whole city is essentially closed, especially if I’m in the car or walking the dog. But finding something that’s worth hearing is another matter entirely. Not to be a Grinch and with nothing against Christmas, when it comes to radio, every year I find that I can’t wait for Boxing Day.

Last edited by RadioActive (December 23, 2016 12:59 pm)

Radiowiz · December 23, 2016 1:47 pm

Back in the WIC radio days it was a network decision to go with a music format.
They even went with a very short lived "No name radio", replacing talk shows with music...not that anyone remembers that.

cGrant · December 23, 2016 1:53 pm

Given the multicultural aspect of the city, certainly there are starving radio hosts that would love a shot on a major market station. It's a shame that the only actual talk station, 1010, doesn't realize this. I exclude 640 as it frequently has producers, interns, building janitorial staff etc filling in. Maybe they can't do a show without a bunch of stooges and yes men in the background shouting and laughing like college kids during this Christmas break.

RadioActive · December 23, 2016 1:59 pm

Don't get me wrong. My complaint isn't that there's Christmas music. It's that there's Christmas music of some sort on EVERY station. It's as ludicrous as it would be if all stations in town suddenly dropped whatever they were doing and picked up CHFI's format for 48 hours, playing Adele non-stop.

Surely there should be a variety, even on Dec. 25th.

And no, I'm not calling you Shirley.

Last edited by RadioActive (December 23, 2016 2:00 pm)

Kilgore · December 23, 2016 2:19 pm

grilled.cheese wrote:
What is the alternative to playing Christmas music on December 25?

See "should stations abandon pt. II" thread

Last edited by Kilgore (December 23, 2016 2:54 pm)

cGrant · December 23, 2016 2:34 pm

The Best of Saul Korman

RadioActive · December 23, 2016 2:37 pm

grilled.cheese wrote:
What is the alternative to playing Christmas music on December 25?

With a little imagination, I'm sure all these radio professionals could come up with something that doesn't involve Jingle Bell Rock or Feliz Navidad ad nauseam. Maybe they could interview newsmakers on how they spend their holidays, which could easily lead into peripheral questions about other issues - keeping the talk format alive while still paying homage to the season. Or maybe run rerolls, if necessary, of the best interviews of 2016 with new intros to freshen them up (although a lot of that is being held for next week's year in review stuff.)

I'm not in programming but I can't believe they couldn't come up with something creative if they put their collective heads together. But I'm guessing that's just too much trouble and might cost a few extra cents at a time when they believe no one is listening. So why bother?

December 23, 2016 3:59 pm

No...at NO time should a radio station EVER abandon its format unless it's because of an emergency of extreme and vital concern to every man woman and child in the listening area.

Xmas just isn't any of 'tha't. Thank the "virgin's" child that there aren't 700 Easter songs. What a farce!!!

cGrant · December 23, 2016 4:06 pm

Funny how television doesn't abandon their formats. Sure some of them show that damn burning log, but the majority air mostly regular scheduled programming.

RadioActive · December 23, 2016 5:18 pm

grilled.cheese wrote:
Why would people care how newsmakers spend their holidays?

Maybe they wouldn't but it's just a peg to do some pseudo-Christmas related programming, venture into issues that are far more interesting ("Aren't you afraid John Tory that Santa will give you a lump of coal for charging road tolls?") and still stay true to your format.

Not everything has to be live, just within the format. Maybe they could do a segment on the different and often odd holiday traditions you never knew about in other parts of the world. (I think I did a web print version of that some years ago, but it's been so long I can't remember.) Callers can add the ones they remember. ("Did you know in Australia that koala bears are dressed up in elf costumes?" or something equally bizarre.)

Then there's the old chestnut (roasting on an open fire, no doubt) about "it wouldn't be Christmas until you've seen what movie?"

And since talk tends to skew older, there could easily be an hour on the things you miss that are no longer part of the holiday.

Or you could revisit some long retired station personalities to catch up on what they're doing now as part of a holiday nostalgia special. Call it "The Hosts of Christmas Past."

And then there's the one Kilgore points out in a separate thread. That's a perfect example of being creative without having to overplay the same old records over and over and over again.

The point is there are alternatives. They just require a little more preparation. And it appears most talk stations just don't want to be bothered. It's so much easier just to do what everybody else has been doing for the past 50 years. But remember that old radio adage "every day is ratings day."

Even on Christmas.

Last edited by RadioActive (December 23, 2016 5:20 pm)

cGrant · December 23, 2016 6:12 pm

RadioActive wrote:
"Did you know in Australia that koala bears are dressed up in elf costumes?" or something equally bizarre.)

That's not bizarre: there's a bar in the Beach that has "alternative lifestyle" people dressed as koala bears adorned in elf costumes 363/days of the year. (The other two days they dress as Mr. Rogers as he visits the "land of make believe".) <still NOT bizarre - the same bar has toenail flinging contests on Tuesday - where the winner has to bite off their big toenail and fling it for distance>

kevjo · December 23, 2016 6:49 pm

Actually up until less than a decade ago, 1010 played music over Christmas. The last few years seemed to support a lot of the arguments for diversity in programming in a city like Toronto. What they ran over the last few years were repackaged conversations various show hosts had had with individuals of all statuses. Most if not all that programming was recorded whereas the previous music-inclusive format seemed to be largely live. Whether that's the case this year remains to be seen although given the deep cost-cutting undertaken by their corporate overlords I wouldn't place heavy odds on live.
Another note about format bending applies to stations such as CHUM-FM and Virgin playing Christmas tunes recorded way before most of their core audience was born. CHUM rolls out the likes of Jingle Bell Rock and Virgin was caught playing Wonderful Christmastime by McCartney. How do those blend with Drake, Ariana Grande, etc? Must the the magic of the season.

Radiowiz · December 23, 2016 9:04 pm

kevjo wrote:
Actually up until less than a decade ago, 1010 played music over Christmas.

I seem to recall more than a decade ago, a talk show on 1010 (Christmas day) where they allowed listeners to call family from all over the world and wish them a Merry Christmas for free, courtesy of CFRB.

Fjiri · December 23, 2016 9:40 pm

cGrant wrote:
Given the multicultural aspect of the city, certainly there are starving radio hosts that would love a shot on a major market station. It's a shame that the only actual talk station, 1010, doesn't realize this. I exclude 640 as it frequently has producers, interns, building janitorial staff etc filling in. Maybe they can't do a show without a bunch of stooges and yes men in the background shouting and laughing like college kids during this Christmas break.

Good thing 1010 doesn't allow any of their producers on air, cGrant. Oh, wait. Afternoon host Ryan Doyle jumped from long-time producer, chiming in on-air, to host. Technical Producer Robert Turner is featured on-air in the mornings. Agar will banter with his producer. Ted chats up his producer (one could argue his producer talks more than he does sometimes).

Good to see that 1010 is chaste when it comes to your golden rule.

Merry Christmas!!!

- Fjiri

cGrant · December 23, 2016 10:12 pm

Fjiri wrote:
Technical Producer Robert Turner is featured on-air in the mornings. Agar will banter with his producer. Ted chats up his producer (one could argue his producer talks more than he does sometimes).

Good to see that 1010 is chaste when it comes to your golden rule.

The difference, good Sir, is those conversations are the exception in minimal banter. The other station has them chime in CONSTANTLY! They often are used more than the host and add reflectively nothing to the mix. CFRB's producer interjections add something relevant; the other station simply sounds like a free-for-all of some sort of college rave where people blurt out whatever comes to mind. This trend signals the host's inability to carry the show by themselves.

Fjiri · December 23, 2016 11:11 pm

cGrant wrote:
Fjiri wrote:
Technical Producer Robert Turner is featured on-air in the mornings. Agar will banter with his producer. Ted chats up his producer (one could argue his producer talks more than he does sometimes).

Good to see that 1010 is chaste when it comes to your golden rule.
The difference, good Sir, is those conversations are the exception in minimal banter. The other station has them chime in CONSTANTLY! They often are used more than the host and add reflectively nothing to the mix. CFRB's producer interjections add something relevant; the other station simply sounds like a free-for-all of some sort of college rave where people blurt out whatever comes to mind. This trend signals the host's inability to carry the show by themselves.

I just edite out all the witty crap I had just written after realizing that I actually don't care enough tonight to keep this back and forth going.

It's Christmas Eve... eve. Time to share joy with those around you.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!!!!

Last edited by Fjiri (December 23, 2016 11:18 pm)

Dale Patterson · December 23, 2016 11:21 pm

This is going way back - maybe to the '70s - but I remember CHUM-FM playing all Beatles on Christmas morning. I believe they did this on more than one Christmas Day, but my recollection on is hazy. Anyone know?

cGrant · December 23, 2016 11:29 pm

Fjiri wrote:
It's Christmas Eve... eve. Time to share joy with those around you.

That's hilarious! And ironic given the thread's subject line. So we are abandoning the topic because it's Christmas Eve Eve. We'll resume regular broadcasts on the 27th. Thanks for the laugh.

Fjiri · December 23, 2016 11:57 pm

cGrant wrote:
Fjiri wrote:
It's Christmas Eve... eve. Time to share joy with those around you.
That's hilarious! And ironic given the thread's subject line. So we are abandoning the topic because it's Christmas Eve Eve. We'll resume regular broadcasts on the 27th. Thanks for the laugh.

I knew you'd get a laugh out of that. ;)

Now go listen to more of your revered 1010, where today Agar forgot that Rogers owns the Blue Jays, and had to bring his producer on for assistance. Good thing all those hosts are fully prepared on their talking points.

Ah shit, you tricked me into commenting.

MMMmmmmm, spotted dick with some grilled.cheese? Now THAT'S a feast! Talk to you Friday afternoon, grilled.

Hansa · December 24, 2016 12:09 am

CFNY had punk Christmas carols in the 1980s and CFRB used to read Oscar Wilde's The Selfish Giant if memory serves correct. CBC Radio often has interesting programming.

RadioActive · December 24, 2016 10:24 pm

Just came back from a half hour walk with the dog on Christmas Eve and was looking for something to listen to. Thank God for CHAM aka Funny 820. We'll see if it remains in that mode on Christmas Day.

Leave it to a turnkey automated station that Bell doesn't really care much about to stay with regular programming while everyone else was playing "Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree," a 1940s old radio version of "A Christmas Carol" or worse.

(Also noticed AM640 had the regular "View From Space" on and found Kim Komando on WWVA from West Virginia. But other than that, the pickings were pretty slim.)

mace · December 25, 2016 9:27 am

I seem to recall many, many years ago, Wally Crouter always worked Christmas morning and took phone calls from excited children wanting to tell him what Santa brought them. Also, I believe Christmas "officially" ends at noon on Dec 25th as that is when most of the "holiday hits" magically disappear from the airwaves.

Kilgore · December 25, 2016 11:27 am

mace wrote:
Christmas "officially" ends at noon on Dec 25th as that is when most of the "holiday hits" magically disappear from the airwaves.

Joy to the world!

cGrant · December 25, 2016 11:38 am

mace wrote:
Christmas "officially" ends at noon on Dec 25th as that is when most of the "holiday hits" magically disappear from the airwaves.

You sure you're not confusing that with April Fool's day? Most will air music until midnight-ish. Ending it at noon would have no Christmas music at the Big Dinner.

cGrant · December 25, 2016 11:41 am

.....and so begins the 3-month Boxing Months sale at Tom's. And the annual Store Location Closing at "how can I sell $25 million dollars worth of jewelry for twenty bucks" jeweller.

kevjo · December 25, 2016 11:51 am

cGrant wrote:
mace wrote:
Christmas "officially" ends at noon on Dec 25th as that is when most of the "holiday hits" magically disappear from the airwaves.
You sure you're not confusing that with April Fool's day? Most will air music until midnight-ish. Ending it at noon would have no Christmas music at the Big Dinner.

I agree. Some stations opt out around noon but most who adopt Christmas programming stay with it until the end of the day. In the last few years some kept it going through Boxing Day as well. I believe that will be CHFI's game plan once more.
Another group of stations (not surprisingly) who get into Christmas is the UCB cluster of Christian stations. They suspend all regular programming Dec 1-26 to play all Christmas music including secular songs by secular artists.

Dale Patterson · December 25, 2016 11:55 am

mace wrote:
I seem to recall many, many years ago, Wally Crouter always worked Christmas morning and took phone calls from excited children wanting to tell him what Santa brought them. Also, I believe Christmas "officially" ends at noon on Dec 25th as that is when most of the "holiday hits" magically disappear from the airwaves.

That may be true of some stations, but WTSS (Star 102.5) plays some Christmas tunes between Christmas and New Year's, milking the Yuletide format it for all its worth. I also remember WLNG Sag Harbour, N.Y., playing several hours of NEW YEAR'S tunes on New Year's Eve one year (didn't realize there were so many, but there were). I wish I had recorded that show or at least procured a copy of the playlist.

RadioActive · December 25, 2016 1:36 pm

I doubt very much you'll hear a lot of regular anything beyond Xmas tunes until Monday. In my experience, these stations give staff the day off because:

a) They likely have earned time off and can spend Christmas with their families, something radio or TV people rarely get to do (speaking as someone who worked every Christmas Day for almost 30 years) and far more importantly

b) They don't want to pay their staff overtime or owe them a day off in lieu for working on the holiday, so they roll music or shows that are in the can. I also noticed that both 'RB and 640 have given their newsroom staffs the day, with both airing the hourly major from the Canadian Press instead. (How weird to hear both running the exact same content at almost the exact same time.) So much for 1010's claim of being Toronto's Breaking News...

By the way, just to finish off where this thread started, the all-sports stations have stuck to their formats, with the Fan taking the CBS feed and TSN running their hours-long "year in sports" review show all morning. (That seems a bit early. Not sure what they're going to do come New Year's Eve, but filler is filler and has to go when you need it.) When that ended, they switched to ESPN.

It's also worth noting that Christmas Day or not, all the regularly scheduled paid advertising nonsense that no one listens to has gone on as scheduled, with CHAM airing the endless 1/2 hour pitches for Purity products, and the labour lawyer turning up with John Scholes on 640 for what is obviously a pre-taped show (no mention of Xmas at all.)

Finally, I laughed out loud at what preceded the latter program on 640 - a one minute holiday "greeting" featuring Tom Mihalik, Saul Korman and Greg Corrasco, all at the same time, talking about how wonderful they are and sending Xmas greetings. Talk about pandering to your advertisers! It's a lump of coal in your listeners' Christmas stocking.

Oh and by the way, Sirius XM 60's on 6 featured Lou Simon with a countdown of the Top 50 songs (non-Christmas) that were on the charts over the years on December 25th. Nice way to combine Xmas with the regular format. (And no Saul Korman anywhere in earshot!)

Last edited by RadioActive (December 25, 2016 1:41 pm)

Kilgore · December 25, 2016 1:37 pm

RadioActive wrote:
Does the fact it’s Christmas mean you can just abandon your format?

This came up at Collingwood Starbucks coffee klatch this morning, where the consensus was now that many Canadian Tires stores have altered their format so you can buy groceries, Loblaws have altered their format so you can buy pharmaceuticals and clothing and every Convenience store is now a casino, broadcasters can do whatever they like.

But we don't have to listen

December 25, 2016 2:33 pm

The problem is there's so much work that would be required to get a show of comparable production value to our regular fare on the air on Christmas. And for whom? The overwhelming majority of places I visit during my Christmas rounds have CHFI or Max Trax or Stingray or Galaxie (or whatever they're called this week) on in the background for the 25th. I don't feel it's worth the effort when guests will be hard to get, the on air people you expect won't be on, and most of your audience won't be listening.