The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » "New Tech Making Free Over-the-Air TV Even Better." But Is It Really?

mace · January 30, 2023 11:44 am

paterson1 wrote:
mace wrote:
I am one of many who doesn't have access to OTA television because I live in an apartment, without a balcony and my apartment faces north. So Rogers was my only option until about five years ago when our building was wired for Bell Fibe. People forget that originally the ONLY reason to have cable in the GTA was to get better reception of the U.S. networks.
Sorry mace, it was not the only reason. It was a big reason and for many people I agree the most important. However cable also gave you more channels, all with clear signals, no interference and no need of an ugly antenna on the roof. When our family first got cable this is how it was sold to us. Also in time some people really enjoyed the local cable channel that covered local sports, politics, events etc. And the only way you would get the community tv was with cable. I know of people here in Kitchener who eventually dropped Bell or went back to cable because they missed the local Rogers community channel, especially Rangers and Guelph Storm hockey.

I don't know about Kitchener, but in Rogers early Toronto days of operation there was no Community Channel. Just Crystal Clear reception of 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11 and 17. TVO wasn't around yet. An added bonus was the availability of CHEX and CKCO which generally were not available to viewers who mostly had chimney mounted non rotor antennas pointed at Buffalo. I think the original Rogers cable fee was around $3.50/month.

Fitz · January 30, 2023 12:08 pm

Remember in the early days there were multiple cable companies in Toronto and The GTA. Other than Rogers there was Wired City Communications which became Scarborough Cable. MacLean Hunter, Newton Cable originally Willowdowns, Classicom. Also seem to recall that Shaw cable provided service to the Borough of York but I could be wrong about that.

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 12:14 pm

If only they were still around, we might have more reasonable rates and choices in the market. It's yet another reason the Rogers-Shaw deal can't possibly live up to its promise of providing more competition.

Fitz · January 30, 2023 12:28 pm

RadioActive wrote:
If only they were still around, we might have more reasonable rates and choices in the market. It's yet another reason the Rogers-Shaw deal can't possibly live up to its promise of providing more competition.

Actually even then there was a system called geographic monopoly where only one company was allowed to serve one area but the rates were still quite reasonable. The environment was much better than the post consolidation era which began in the late 1980's.

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 12:47 pm

The more they independents disappeared, the higher the rates would go. Until we've reached where we are today. What really bothers me is that some people have no choice at all. My cousin, for instance, used to live in a Brampton condo where it was Rogers - or nothing. They literally had the nine storey place, with hundreds of units, as a kind of exclusive. So if you wanted TV and later, high speed Internet, there was no other choice.

And of course, that meant they had you over a barrel and could charge whatever they wanted. As bad as it is that there are only a very few providers, having only one makes it even worse. That situation is common in many places across the city and possibly across Canada. It's another reason to advocate for change to this monopolistic situation.

mace · January 30, 2023 1:49 pm

If you live in Oakville or Burlington you are stuck with Cogeco. I remember back in the early 80's, I was jealous of Scarborough Cable customers. In addition to Buffalo, they also received ch 8 and 10 from Rochester. Not crystal clear, but certainly a good tropo analog picture. My friends in Whitby, had it even better. They got ABC13 as well. Sadly, they were all removed to make way for more Canadian channels.

Fitz · January 30, 2023 3:00 pm

mace wrote:
If you live in Oakville or Burlington you are stuck with Cogeco. I remember back in the early 80's, I was jealous of Scarborough Cable customers. In addition to Buffalo, they also received ch 8 and 10 from Rochester. Not crystal clear, but certainly a good tropo analog picture. My friends in Whitby, had it even better. They got ABC13 as well. Sadly, they were all removed to make way for more Canadian channels.

Yes we got Channel 8 and 10 but I think you needed a converter as they were not on basic. Loved the House of Guitars ads from Rochester.

One thing I am sure we are all aware of is that the consolation of the media companies and business in general is a world wide phenomena with the US as leader. The dumbing down, lack of choice, higher prices, the reduction of independents etc.

Last edited by Fitz (January 30, 2023 3:23 pm)

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 4:53 pm

Here's the basic line-up for Keeble Cable in 1972, the year City TV first signed on. Worth noting there was no Channel 29 listed, although it had come on the air in Buffalo in Dec. 1970.

Glen Warren · January 30, 2023 5:13 pm

mace wrote:
If you live in Oakville or Burlington you are stuck with Cogeco. I remember back in the early 80's, I was jealous of Scarborough Cable customers. In addition to Buffalo, they also received ch 8 and 10 from Rochester. Not crystal clear, but certainly a good tropo analog picture. My friends in Whitby, had it even better. They got ABC13 as well. Sadly, they were all removed to make way for more Canadian channels.

In the spring of 1980, Wired City/Cablenet was successful in gaining permission from the CRTC to carry the Erie Pa. local/network affiliates... (WJET, WSEE and and the CBS affiliate).

Wired City had just purchased the privately held Burlington cable licensee "Citizen's Cable TV" and the addition of the Erie Pa. channels was a cheap gimmicky enticement for Burlington subscribers... They already received the main Buffalo Net affiliates, PBS/WNED and WUTV Ind.... By the time Wired City/Cablenet gained control of Oakville Cablevision, about 7 months later, the CRTC denied the carriage of the Erie Pa. channels in Oakville. It was basically due to a geographic distance ruling, and the fact that Oakville already was carrying CKCO Kitchener and CKVR Barrie. The Burlington system ending up dropping the Erie Pa. channels about 3 years later in order to free up channel positions for the arrival of PAY TV service (First Choice, Superchannel and C Channel)

(Cablenet was the licensee for Burlington / Oakville after the 1980 August / September "rationalization" of the various cable licences post Rogers / CCL / Premier Communications. Rogers wanted as much of Toronto as they could get while still retaining the "prime cuts" of the recently acquired CCL. Rogers gave away some of the "tough cuts" of CCL and Premier. The Toronto York Cablevision and Keeble Cable licences as well as the Mississauga Keeble licence went to Rogers to consolidate their Toronto holdings. Premier would then be able to consolidate their holdings in Vancouver and Victoria B.C. and surrounding areas. Eventually, Rogers ended up acquiring the cable holdings of Premier as well.

Wired City, which had a sizeabler portion of Scarborough, would give it up to Rogers, and in turn received Oakville, and Comox Valley B.C. from Premier, and Kingston, Ont. from Rogers/CCL).

MJ Vancouver · January 30, 2023 7:09 pm

I find this stuff interesting, so I dug up what was going on in London back in the day.

When I was a kid there were two cable companies - Maclean-Hunter and Rogers. We had Maclean-Hunter, and it was the only company serving our west-end neighbourhood - I have no idea what parts of the city got Rogers.

Historically, up until the early 1970s London got only three Canadian channels - CFPL, CKCO and CHCH, with the balance being the Big 3 from Detroit and Cleveland, and WICU Erie. WKYC Cleveland was bumped in 1974 to make room for Global, and later American channels were either bumped or moved to converter channels to make room for TVO, Radio-Canada, and PBS.

By the time I was born in the 1980s, we got:
2 - TVO 18 London
3 - Global 6 Paris
4 - WSEE CBS 35 Erie
5 - WXYZ ABC 7 Detroit
6 - CKCO CTV 13 Kitchener
7 - CBLFT SRC 40 London
8 - WQLN PBS 54 Erie
9 - CFPL CBC 10 London
11 - CHCH 11 Hamilton
12 - WICU NBC 12 Erie
13 - community channel
16 - WJET ABC 24 Erie
17 - First Choice
20 - WUAB 43 Cleveland
21 - WJBK CBS 2 Detroit
22 - WDIV NBC 4 Detroit
26 - TSN
27 - MuchMusic
28 - A&E
29 - TNN

The basic tier (2-13) still had four American channels. That changed with the addition of CFMT, CITY, and CBC Toronto. WUAB, oddly enough, is still on the lineup in the same position today, making London one of the few Canadian cities to get The CW on basic cable.

Rogers in London had the same channels but sometimes in different positions. Cable 5 was WJET instead of WXYZ. Rogers also offered CNN a few years before Maclean-Hunter, and also offered CFMT and CITY before Maclean-Hunter.

St. Thomas offered all the Cleveland stations at one point, even upstart independent WCLQ 61 (now WQHS, a Spanish Univision station). WCLQ was also offered in Chatham.

Last edited by MJ Vancouver (January 30, 2023 7:20 pm)

Hansa · January 30, 2023 7:26 pm

The forbidden mysteries of Rochester televison - taunting and teasing us in the TV guide with its subtle differences, but unattainable.

mace · January 30, 2023 7:49 pm

Glen Warren wrote:
mace wrote:
If you live in Oakville or Burlington you are stuck with Cogeco. I remember back in the early 80's, I was jealous of Scarborough Cable customers. In addition to Buffalo, they also received ch 8 and 10 from Rochester. Not crystal clear, but certainly a good tropo analog picture. My friends in Whitby, had it even better. They got ABC13 as well. Sadly, they were all removed to make way for more Canadian channels.
In the spring of 1980, Wired City/Cablenet was successful in gaining permission from the CRTC to carry the Erie Pa. local/network affiliates... (WJET, WSEE and and the CBS affiliate).

Wired City had just purchased the privately held Burlington cable licensee "Citizen's Cable TV" and the addition of the Erie Pa. channels was a cheap gimmicky enticement for Burlington subscribers... They already received the main Buffalo Net affiliates, PBS/WNED and WUTV Ind.... By the time Wired City/Cablenet gained control of Oakville Cablevision, about 7 months later, the CRTC denied the carriage of the Erie Pa. channels in Oakville. It was basically due to a geographic distance ruling, and the fact that Oakville already was carrying CKCO Kitchener and CKVR Barrie. The Burlington system ending up dropping the Erie Pa. channels about 3 years later in order to free up channel positions for the arrival of PAY TV service (First Choice, Superchannel and C Channel)

(Cablenet was the licensee for Burlington / Oakville after the 1980 August / September "rationalization" of the various cable licences post Rogers / CCL / Premier Communications. Rogers wanted as much of Toronto as they could get while still retaining the "prime cuts" of the recently acquired CCL. Rogers gave away some of the "tough cuts" of CCL and Premier. The Toronto York Cablevision and Keeble Cable licences as well as the Mississauga Keeble licence went to Rogers to consolidate their Toronto holdings. Premier would then be able to consolidate their holdings in Vancouver and Victoria B.C. and surrounding areas. Eventually, Rogers ended up acquiring the cable holdings of Premier as well.

Wired City, which had a sizeabler portion of Scarborough, would give it up to Rogers, and in turn received Oakville, and Comox Valley B.C. from Premier, and Kingston, Ont. from Rogers/CCL).

I had forgotten about the Erie affilliates. They were available on Hamilton cable when I lived there. I had access to a tower then. One thing I have wondered about Leamington. It looks to be a great place to receive OTA reception from Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland and maybe Erie. with a good antenna and rotor. However, in today's digital/repack world that may no longer be the case.

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 8:23 pm

When I was growing up, we used to get WUHF (great call letters - I can't believe no one ever used them before) Channel 31 from Rochester often enough that I would be able to pull it in with a rotor much of the year in North York.

But it wasn't listed in the TV Guide and you could never tell what was on it. So as a kid with nothing to lose, I found out their address and wrote them and for several years, to my amazement, they'd mail me weekly listings via a Xerox-ed sheet! Wish I had still had some of those. Not that you'd need it with the Internet, but I doubt any station today would go to that expense for a long-distance viewer.

mace · January 30, 2023 8:58 pm

RadioActive wrote:
When I was growing up, we used to get WUHF (great call letters - I can't believe no one ever used them before) Channel 31 from Rochester often enough that I would be able to pull it in with a rotor much of the year in North York.

But it wasn't listed in the TV Guide and you could never tell what was on it. So as a kid with nothing to lose, I found out their address and wrote them and for several years, to my amazement, they'd mail me weekly listings via a Xerox-ed sheet! Wish I had still had some of those. Not that you'd need it with the Internet, but I doubt any station today would go to that expense for a long-distance viewer.

RA. I am assuming you were a TV Guide subscriber. Did you know you could request any edition to be delivered to you? When I became a subscriber, I requested the Oshawa/Peterboro edition. It listed all the Rochester channels, not just 8, 10 and 13 in the Toronto edition.

paterson1 · January 30, 2023 9:03 pm

What's interesting looking at all of these old channel line ups is the fact that across the border people were getting no where near the same number of clear channels and variety as compared to places like London, Whitby or Oshawa.

Not only did we receive more channels but in many cases like London or Whitby, more US stations as compared to communities across the lake. Isn't that interesting, Canadian communities with a better choice for American channels. Cable in the US was way behind Canada and most US homes still relied on the antenna and pulling in whatever they could. Usually the stations in the next city over didn't come in that well off air for the average homeowner. So you had three or four channels to watch.

Again, so much for the CRTC being anti American as some like to peddle.

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 9:22 pm

paterson1 wrote:
What's interesting looking at all of these old channel line ups is the fact that across the border people were getting no where near the same number of clear channels and variety as compared to places like London, Whitby or Oshawa.

Not only did we receive more channels but in many cases like London or Whitby, more US stations as compared to communities across the lake. Isn't that interesting, Canadian communities with a better choice for American channels. Cable in the US was way behind Canada and most US homes still relied on the antenna and pulling in whatever they could. Usually the stations in the next city over didn't come in that well off air for the average homeowner. So you had three or four channels to watch.

Again, so much for the CRTC being anti American as some like to peddle.

Not exactly. You actually solved the mystery in your answer. The variety of channels were only available in smaller cities, where Buffalo wasn't really an option. So they allowed more variety because the folks there simply couldn't get much else.

The people in the bigger cities, like Toronto, were pretty much restricted to just those across the lake. And once simsub began, they almost weren't worth having, since you could never really see them in primetime as Canadian networks adjusted their schedules to mimic their American counterparts.

The smaller towns got slightly more. We got less - and got screwed by protectionist CRTC regs. and later, the cable companies themselves. If you look at your bill, it's easy to see that you still are.

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 9:25 pm

mace wrote:
RadioActive wrote:
When I was growing up, we used to get WUHF (great call letters - I can't believe no one ever used them before) Channel 31 from Rochester often enough that I would be able to pull it in with a rotor much of the year in North York.

But it wasn't listed in the TV Guide and you could never tell what was on it. So as a kid with nothing to lose, I found out their address and wrote them and for several years, to my amazement, they'd mail me weekly listings via a Xerox-ed sheet! Wish I had still had some of those. Not that you'd need it with the Internet, but I doubt any station today would go to that expense for a long-distance viewer.
RA. I am assuming you were a TV Guide subscriber. Did you know you could request any edition to be delivered to you? When I became a subscriber, I requested the Oshawa/Peterboro edition. It listed all the Rochester channels, not just 8, 10 and 13 in the Toronto edition.

Yes, I used to subscribe to the U.S. TV Guide and received the Western New York Edition. This not only had Canadian stations but all the Buffalo and Rochester ones - plus the American cable outlets. At the time, I had a working 10' C-Band satellite dish, so all those listings came in handy. Sure do miss those days!

MJ Vancouver · January 30, 2023 9:51 pm

paterson1 wrote:
What's interesting looking at all of these old channel line ups is the fact that across the border people were getting no where near the same number of clear channels and variety as compared to places like London, Whitby or Oshawa.

Not only did we receive more channels but in many cases like London or Whitby, more US stations as compared to communities across the lake. Isn't that interesting, Canadian communities with a better choice for American channels. Cable in the US was way behind Canada and most US homes still relied on the antenna and pulling in whatever they could. Usually the stations in the next city over didn't come in that well off air for the average homeowner. So you had three or four channels to watch.

Again, so much for the CRTC being anti American as some like to peddle.

Southern Ontario and to some extent Quebec were spoiled, but in other parts of Canada, choices were much more limited. Halifax back in the early 80s got its local CBC and CTV, Atlantic Satellite Network, and four US affiliates from Maine. Saskatchewan’s cities were even more limited as they didn’t have something like ASN.

Last edited by MJ Vancouver (January 30, 2023 9:54 pm)

paterson1 · January 30, 2023 9:52 pm

RadioActive wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
What's interesting looking at all of these old channel line ups is the fact that across the border people were getting no where near the same number of clear channels and variety as compared to places like London, Whitby or Oshawa.

Not only did we receive more channels but in many cases like London or Whitby, more US stations as compared to communities across the lake. Isn't that interesting, Canadian communities with a better choice for American channels. Cable in the US was way behind Canada and most US homes still relied on the antenna and pulling in whatever they could. Usually the stations in the next city over didn't come in that well off air for the average homeowner. So you had three or four channels to watch.

Again, so much for the CRTC being anti American as some like to peddle.
Not exactly. You actually solved the mystery in your answer. The variety of channels were only available in smaller cities, where Buffalo wasn't really an option. So they allowed more variety because the folks there simply couldn't get much else.

The people in the bigger cities, like Toronto, were pretty much restricted to just those across the lake. And once simsub began, they almost weren't worth having, since you could never really see them in primetime as Canadian networks adjusted their schedules to mimic their American counterparts.

The smaller towns got slightly more. We got less - and got screwed by protectionist CRTC regs. and later, the cable companies themselves. If you look at your bill, it's easy to admit that you still are.

You are not addressing the point. The fact is that with cable we were receiving more channels, a better variety and in many cases more US channels than American cities along the border.

You are right about one thing, in most of Toronto since there were more stations in the city and region, we had the four or five Buffalo stations. Buffalo was closer geographically and it wouldn't really make a lot of sense to carry Erie or Detroit on Toronto cable. Also the CRTC was right and gave preference to stations like Barrie, Kitchener, Peterborough, TVO and Radio Canada for cable line ups in Toronto.

You are wrong stating that "we got less and were screwed.." Cable viewers in Toronto had a much better choice of TV channels than either Buffalo or Rochester. Maybe they are the one's that got screwed.

Fitz · January 30, 2023 10:04 pm

In Scarborough the Rochester stations were there into the 1990's.

Here is a listing from 1993:
Trillium Cable - Scarborough/Pickering April 1993

2 CICA (TVO - Toronto)
3 CIII (Global - Paris)
4 CFMT (Ind. - Toronto)
5 Canadian Home Shopping Club
6 CBLT (CBC - Toronto)
7 CITY (Citytv - Toronto)
8 CFTO (CTV - Toronto)
9
10 Community Channel
11 CHCH (Ind - Hamilton)
12 CBLFT (SRC - Toronto)
13 La Chaine Francaise
14 WGRZ (NBC - Buffalo)
15 WIVB (CBS - Buffalo)
16
17 WKBW (ABC - Buffalo)
18
19
20 WUTV (FOX - Buffalo)
21 CKVR (CBC - Barrie)
22 WNED (PBS - Buffalo)
23
24 Vision TV
25 YTV
26 CBC Newsworld
27
28
29 The Learning Channel
30 MuchMusic
31
32 The Sports Network
33 The Nashville Network
34 Arts & Entertainment
35 Cable News Network
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43 **Family Channel
44 **TBS Superstation
45 **WGN Superstation
46 **Super Ecran
47 **The Movie Network 1
48 **The Movie Network 2
49 **The Movie Network 3
50 Viewer's Choice Preview Channel
51 **Viewer's Choice 1
52 **Viewer's Choice 2
53 **Viewer's Choice 3
54 **Viewer's Choice 4
55
56 **WSBK (Ind. - Boston)
57 CKCO (CTV - Kitchener)
58 WROC (CBS - Rochester)
59 WHEC (NBC - Rochester)
60 CHEX-2 (CBC - Oshawa)

Fitz · January 30, 2023 10:10 pm

and here's one from Ottawa from 1991.

Rogers Cable Ottawa 1991 (Formerly Skyline Cable)

This is the first revision of Rogers Cable in the Ottawa area after they took over Skyline Cable. At this point Rogers was only controlling the east side of the city.

2 CICA TVO-Toronto
3 CIII Global-Toronto
4 WNPE PBS-Watertown
5 CFGS TQS-Hull
6 CHRO CBC-Pembroke
7 CJOH CTV-Ottawa
8 CBOT CBC-Ottawa
9 WHEC NBC-Rochester
10 CHOT TVA-Hull
11 CBOFT SRC-Ottawa
12 La Chaine Francaise
13 WROC CBS-Rochester
14 WOKR ABC-Rochester
15 Carleton University
16 The Weather Network
17 CBC Newsworld
18 Parliament (English)
19 Parliament (French)
20 CFCF CTV-Montreal
21 YTV
22 Rogers Television 22
23 Special Programming Channel
24 Vision TV
25 **Cable News Network
26 **Arts & Entertainment
27 **MuchMusic [Not sure if this was still PAY-TV on Skyline]
28 **The Sports Network [Not sure if this was still PAY-TV on Skyline]
29 **First Choice
30 **Super Ecran
31 **Family Channel
32 Viewer's Choice Preview Channel
33 Ontario Parliament Network [This is a guess]
34 CBMT CBC-Montreal
35 TV5 Quebec
36 Canadian Home Shopping Network
37 CIVO RQ-Hull
38 Broadcast News [This is a guess]
39 Homes Plus Network [This is a guess]
40 MeteoMedia [This is a guess]
43 CFTM TVA-Montreal
44 **CNBC-FNN [This is a guess]
45 **The Learning Channel [This is a guess]
46 **Viewer's Choice 1
47 **Viewer's Choice 2
48 **Viewer's Choice 3
49 **Viewer's Choice 4
50 CKWS CBC-Kingston
51 **MusiquePlus [This is a guess]
52 **The Nashville Network
53 Stocks [This is a guess]
54 Electronic Program Guide
55 **Superstation TBS
56 **Superstation WGN
57 **Le Canal Famille [This is a guess]
58 Government Information Channel
59 Infovision

RadioActive · January 30, 2023 10:17 pm

paterson1 wrote:
RadioActive wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
What's interesting looking at all of these old channel line ups is the fact that across the border people were getting no where near the same number of clear channels and variety as compared to places like London, Whitby or Oshawa.

Not only did we receive more channels but in many cases like London or Whitby, more US stations as compared to communities across the lake. Isn't that interesting, Canadian communities with a better choice for American channels. Cable in the US was way behind Canada and most US homes still relied on the antenna and pulling in whatever they could. Usually the stations in the next city over didn't come in that well off air for the average homeowner. So you had three or four channels to watch.

Again, so much for the CRTC being anti American as some like to peddle.
Not exactly. You actually solved the mystery in your answer. The variety of channels were only available in smaller cities, where Buffalo wasn't really an option. So they allowed more variety because the folks there simply couldn't get much else.

The people in the bigger cities, like Toronto, were pretty much restricted to just those across the lake. And once simsub began, they almost weren't worth having, since you could never really see them in primetime as Canadian networks adjusted their schedules to mimic their American counterparts.

The smaller towns got slightly more. We got less - and got screwed by protectionist CRTC regs. and later, the cable companies themselves. If you look at your bill, it's easy to admit that you still are.
You are not addressing the point. The fact is that with cable we were receiving more channels, a better variety and in many cases more US channels than American cities along the border.

You are right about one thing, in most of Toronto since there were more stations in the city and region, we had the four or five Buffalo stations. Buffalo was closer geographically and it wouldn't really make a lot of sense to carry Erie or Detroit on Toronto cable. Also the CRTC was right and gave preference to stations like Barrie, Kitchener, Peterborough, TVO and Radio Canada for cable line ups in Toronto.

You are wrong stating that "we got less and were screwed.." Cable viewers in Toronto had a much better choice of TV channels than either Buffalo or Rochester. Maybe they are the one's that got screwed.

Having gotten the weekly TV Guide from Buffalo, I can tell you they got a lot more than we did. Not only were all the U.S. networks represented, but there were listings for the Canadian stations (which were carried on many if not most Buffalo cable systems), as well as all those burgeoning early American cable outlets, like A&E, WTBS, (basic) HBO, Showtime, (pay tier) and a lot more - some of which no longer even exist.

Some select Canadian cities may have received duplicate American channel feeds, but there's no way they got more variety than what the average U.S. cable subscriber saw. The listings tell the tale from back then. And it's one of the reasons I got a C-Band satellite dish in the first place.

Here are just a few sample pages from the satellite guide in the early 80s. Not everything here was on basic cable, but 90% of them were, and those that survived still are.

And just for the fun of it, here's what was on Anik, the Canadian satellite birds. Not exactly comparable, I'm sorry to say.

paterson1 · January 30, 2023 11:04 pm

We haven't been talking about all the specialty and satellite cable channels which is something else altogether. Yes for this type of service the US has more channels available partially due to a much larger customer base. However in the late 60's to early 80's most US homes didn't have cable and didn't subscribe. By the early 70's cable TV was much more prevalent and advanced here. This is why I mentioned way back, the first time I went to the states it was so disappointing with the tv since everywhere we stayed only offered 3 or 4 channels and no cable. And going back various times until the early 80's there didn't appear to be much change.

Fitz · January 30, 2023 11:13 pm

You can see a 1989 Cable TV line up here from Buffalo and we indeed got more American stations than they got Canadian.

Buffalo CATV line 1989

Last edited by Fitz (January 30, 2023 11:17 pm)

DeepTracks · January 31, 2023 9:27 am

Fitz wrote:
You can see a 1989 Cable TV line up here from Buffalo and we indeed got more American stations than they got Canadian.

Buffalo CATV line 1989

What I'm a little surprised to see is that what 'we' might see as being impaired channels 4 & 7, because of local OTA, they placed fairly high profile (desirable) stations - PBS-17 on Ch4 and TNT on Ch7.

I remember many people who were unable to see the Rogers program guide when it was placed on Ch5, locally. Keeble, Rogers, Maclean Hunter, and Scarboro cable all placed different channels on both 5 & 9, hoping for the most part to receive minimal complaints I have to think.

paterson1 · January 31, 2023 9:50 am

Fitz wrote:
You can see a 1989 Cable TV line up here from Buffalo and we indeed got more American stations than they got Canadian.

Buffalo CATV line 1989

It's odd that this cable company in Buffalo didn't carry CHCH or Citytv in 1989. Probably homes without cable in 1989 would be able to get them off air. Certainly CHCH should have come in with a decent signal. I understand that today Canadian channels on US cable often have a black screen when US programming comes on. Or they will substitute something like the Jewellery Channel if Canadian TV has an American show scheduled. Interesting that the writer mentions that all of the different cable companies that served Buffalo and area years ago are now owned by Verizon.

mace · January 31, 2023 11:45 am

I came across a Reddit site where someone asked if GTA stations were available in Western New York. Verizon/Fios has none. Spectrum carries CBLT in SD only. CFTO was removed several years ago because the primetime schedule was a virtual carbon copy of 2, 4 or 7 and was almost always blacked out. The U.S. version of simsub. Some interesting OTA info. One poster said that if you live in Lockport or Lewiston, most of the Canadian channels can be received with an indoor antenna. In the City of Buffalo, an attic mounted antenna would be required. Another poster chimed in that when he lived in Amherst two years ago, an attic antenna got him CBC, CTV, CHCH,TVO, Global and YES. CITY and the OMNI's were available but not totally reliable depending on weather conditions. Since the repack, his reception may have changed. A third person responded about his Western NY reception with an outdoor UHF antenna. He didn't state his specific area nor his antenna type. He can receive everything except CFTO.

In Phase · January 31, 2023 11:49 am

paterson1 wrote:
It's odd that this cable company in Buffalo didn't carry CHCH or Citytv in 1989.

Citytv's signal never made it to Buffalo. The cable co's had no reliable way to receive it. Direct fiber connectivity was probably not a technical or financial option at the time either.

In Phase · January 31, 2023 11:54 am

RA, with respect, you have previously referred to "meddling of the federal government" and "horrendous government interference" and yet you seemingly expect the government to intervene in the Rogers takeover of Shaw. The acquisition of Shaw by Rogers is first and foremost a business decision. Although you and I would like it to be about "lower consumer prices", that is secondary for Rogers.

It's all about corporate growth, increasing shareholder value, and evolving family dynasties. Given that Shaw can't grow much beyond their current reach, and Rogers still is in a "growth" mode, a merger was virtually inevitable.

I am sure there will be concessions made, such as Freedom Mobile, but in the end, Rogers will most likely prevail, and probably should.

Don't get me wrong, I have no specific love for Rogers or any company. I too would like to have more choice and lower prices, but I am a capitalist as well. I am invested in Rogers and Bell and others, as are most people that have mutual funds, RRSP's or pension plans. I need them to grow.

Although more choice is always desired, people do have choice (yes, albeit somewhat limited). Unfortunately, many succumb to marketing tactics and fail to differentiate between what is truly "required" and what is "nice to have". Rogers knows this. Bell knows this. Politicians know this.

Is some level of government oversight required?   Probably

Am I thrilled that Rogers will take over Shaw?   Nope

Do I think it needs to happen?   Yup

RadioActive · January 31, 2023 11:55 am

I remember when City TV first signed on, and I could barely get it in Toronto, despite having a rotor on the roof of my parent's home. Its original signal off of Channel 79 was very weak if I recall correctly.

I have heard stories that people from Buffalo used to cross the border and stay in a Toronto hotel just to watch the Baby Blue Movie that aired every Friday night. Not sure if that's true or apocryphal, but that's been the story for years.