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Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
This is something I’ve always wondered about and I presume there’s a good reason for it.
Anyone in Toronto knows you can pretty well get virtually all the stations from Hamilton, which is what, about 50 miles away? CKOC used to compete with CHUM for audience and many of us grew up listening to both.
Which leads me to CHML, which is 50,000 watts and one of the few stations on 900 AM at night. So why is it completely nulled away from Toronto? Last night, after sunset, I went out to walk the dog and tuned into the station. You can barely get it clearly here during the day and at night, it’s almost a lost cause.
I remember being in New York City once, and the only stations I could get from back home were AM740 – with that killer signal – and CHML.
I suspect the signal is deliberately aimed away from us, but I’ve never known the reason why. Are they trying to protect another station on a nearby frequency? If so, who? And if not, why not make themselves available to at least some of the audience here? In its Top 40 days, CKOC used to benefit from its Toronto spillover. It's not in the area of licence, per se, but wouldn’t CHML benefit by doing the same thing?
So near and yet so far. Some of their hosts are quite good. I just wish I could hear them more clearly over the air.
- mic'em
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
I would think they have to direct the clean signal away from the east boundary . I like to tune into Raceline , the Erik Thomas production on Sunday nights at 8 pm if I am anywhere close to the their coverage zone. I have to be west of Highway 400 and south of Highway 9 or it fades out. I have been in downtown London at 8 pm on a Sunday and could hear the 900 signal perfectly. Another example is 89.1 Max FM out of Orillia. My home base in Collingwood has several areas where their signal is weak to the point of having to change the dial position. They do announce in their station id tags they serve, Barrie, Orillia and Muskoka . I can get a clean signal to the south on Highway 400 until about 2 km north of Bradford. At that point its 640 am if Oakley is on, 94.9 Oshawa or The Edge. I rarely listen to Rock 95 Barrie as their playlist is too short for my liking. I am not inclined to tune in 640's midday shows anymore and 1010 is just boring . God, I miss Sirrius but my free subscription expired and I just can't pay for it when there is so much free radio. 
Last edited by mic'em (May 18, 2020 12:50 pm)
- mace
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
I checked CHML's day and night patterns on the Radio Locator site. There is indeed a null to the west and east though much more pronounced at night. The majority of their signal seems to be beamed NW and SE. According to the NRC AM log, there are no other Canadian or American radio stations transmitting a 50K night signal on the 900 frequency. However, in Radio Station World's listings, Radio Progresso transmits a 50K signal out of Helguin, Cuba on 900. Perhaps, that is why CHML has an extremely odd signal pattern.
- Fitz
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
One way to get a clear terrestrial signal of CHML in the GTA is via HD. CHML is HD 3 on 95.3 FM. HD2 is AM 640.
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- Tickle Trunk
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
Corus radio networks 640 and 900 from 6pm-5:30am. Perhaps it's as easy as they want you listening to the stop sets specific to your market.
- RadioActive
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
They don't do it on the weekend, which is when I was trying to listen. But it's definitely odd that a 50K signal this close to Toronto can't be heard clearly in Toronto.
I used to have the same issue with WKBW AM, which was extremely hard to get here, despite having one of the best signals in this part of the world. Same thing. It was aimed somewhere else and you could get it all along the eastern seaboard. But Toronto? Barely a sniff.
As a result, unless you were willing to listen through static and fading, we missed some of the best Top 40 radio talent in history.
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Thread Starter- paterson1
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
About 15 years ago I had cause to go to Hamilton twice per week for business. I got into the habit of listening to CHML and still listen today. They have some good solid news and on air talent. Scott Thompson in the afternoon is as good a host as anyone in Toronto.
He is at his best and funniest when he gets a bit pissed off on air. One of those guys who is sort of funny when he gets angry. I find him excellent with callers and guests and gives them time to speak. He doesn't cut people off or interrupt like so many hosts do. But he will challenge callers and guests on their opinions. Bill Kelly is also good in the mornings but I don't hear him as much, he seems to cover politics and the economy a fair bit which I enjoy.
The Hammer is an underrated town in many respects, and for the size of the city doesn't have many local radio and TV stations. It has been called Canada's most underserved large media market. Buffalo's metro area is somewhat larger than Hamilton's and has many more radio and television stations. But having said that, if Buffalo was half an hour outside of New York City it wouldn't have near the number of TV and radio stations it has now.
I receive CHML loud and clear in KW all the time, even better than TSN 1150. CHML is a nice change from Newstalk 1010 or AM 640 and naturally somewhat less focused on the GTA.
Last edited by paterson1 (May 19, 2020 12:09 am)
- Ida Spencer
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
It may have to do with protecting CKLY Lindsay when it was broadcasting at 910 kHz. Of course they're now at 91.9 but it probably wasn't worth redesigning the antenna array to remove that eastern null.
The old CHML Vinemount site was still standing well into the 1990s, even though it hadn't been transmitting since 1978.
- mace
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
Regarding WKBW's not so monstrous 1520 night signal in the GTA, is it possible we are getting a mixture of the daytime groundwave and nighttime skywave signals?
- fybush
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
Ida Spencer wrote:
It may have to do with protecting CKLY Lindsay when it was broadcasting at 910 kHz. Of course they're now at 91.9 but it probably wasn't worth redesigning the antenna array to remove that eastern null.
The old CHML Vinemount site was still standing well into the 1990s, even though it hadn't been transmitting since 1978.
I remember finding the Vinemount site still standing on a trip I took around 1998 or 1999 - not the towers, but the building was still there, anyway.
So why does the current signal look the way it does? The main protection on 900 is actually to XEW in Mexico City, since 900 is a Mexican clear channel. That's why the deep null to the southwest is there. There's another pretty deep null more or less due west that protects WFDF on 910 in Michigan (and may also provide some first-adjacent night protection to WLS in Chicago.)
The array was designed to put a huge maximum lobe right into Hamilton itself, and then out over Niagara. You can drive that pretty narrow lobe across western New York if you plot it out - it remains a killer signal as far away as Hornell, for instance, while it's audible but not very strong here in Rochester, 70 miles north.
Most of the rest of why that signal looks the way it does is just symmetry beyond that. The huge lobe to the east-southeast is accompanied by another strong lobe to the west-northwest that covers K-W very nicely. Some of those other nulls to the northeast protected other now-defunct 900 and 910 signals - there was CKTS 900 in Sherbrooke, CKLY 910 in Lindsay and CFBR/CHYC on 900 in North Bay.
- Saul
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
Some of those other nulls to the northeast protected other now-defunct 900 and 910 signals - there was CKTS 900 in Sherbrooke, CKLY 910 in Lindsay and CFBR/CHYC on 900 in North Bay.
Were CFBR-CHYC not in Sudbury? Regardless, they're not in my log, and I struggled to remember the station(s). That is because they were never heard here despite the close proximity.
- fybush
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
Some of those other nulls to the northeast protected other now-defunct 900 and 910 signals - there was CKTS 900 in Sherbrooke, CKLY 910 in Lindsay and CFBR/CHYC on 900 in North Bay.
Were CFBR-CHYC not in Sudbury? Regardless, they're not in my log, and I struggled to remember the station(s). That is because they were never heard here despite the close proximity.
Whoops - yes, Sudbury is correct. Originally CHNO was on 900 and CFBR on 550, and they swapped in the late 1960s. Both were DAs from south of Sudbury aiming north. I'm not surprised you never heard them. I never did, either.
- mace
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Re: Why Is CHML’s 50,000 Watt Signal So Poor In Toronto?
When I used to drive to Sudbury to visit my sister at Laurentian [circa 1979] I would listen to WGR as long as possible. Around Parry Sound, I would get a 50/50 mix of the Buffalo and Sudbury signals. With the Sudbury stations now all on the FM side now, I wonder how far north GR's day signal actually travels.