- RadioAaron
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
paterson1 wrote:
so...to be clear...if I want to run an internet 'station'...I can play whatever I want? No regs? Payment to composers though? Yes?
I don't think anyone here would argue that payments aren't necessary for material used in any shows made for the web. Copyright still exists, even on the Internet and you can't steal whatever you want.
I think what some of us are saying is that to force any shows - and the expense of making them - on an audience that may not want them makes no sense. When I go to the grocery store, there's no one there trying to force me to buy Canadian lettuce when all I came in for was bananas. But then they charge you for the vegetable anyway even if you don't leave the store with it.
No one would ever propose a business plan like that. Yet somehow it's different online and streamers can be forced to make shows only a handful of viewers may ever see and those who aren't viewers will be made to pay for it. All in the name of some amorphous "Canadian identity" policy whose only real purpose seems to be to make the government look good.On line shows and even network shows with a relative "handful" of viewers is not unique to cancon or the Canadian broadcast system. As we know US shows on the big four networks are getting renewed with very, very low ratings.
And looking at the ratings in the US, if it wasn't for sports the networks would be even in rougher shape.
Our top 30 shows seem to be a healthier mix and variety, not as reliant on "live event" sports programming for some good numbers. And low and behold, 3 cancon shows made the top 30! And with no simsub! And they cracked the top 30 against the biggest, most powerful, most popular and most successful entertainment machine just across the border! No other country in the world contends with this 24/7, 365 days a year, and for 67 years like we do. The rest of the world is just starting to taste what we have handled for many decades.
Quite an assumption to say that Canadian shows are "forced" on people who may not want them! Many people do want Canadian shows, and do watch them in good numbers. Forced is the wrong term, programming is "offered" to people, and it is up to you if you want to watch...sort of like any other show.
Besides aren't all shows sort of forced or offered initially to people who may not think that they want it?
Some people always label Canadian shows as being so different and put them "over there" in a separate category. I think many others confuse their dislike for the government and regulation with the actual program, or organization which is short sighted and a mistake. They are not one and the same. As we know governments and parties in power come and go.
In terms of the business plan, sorry cancon is part of the plan. Broadcasters should be mature, not whine do the hard work, and step up and give it their best shot, just like they do in the US, UK, France, Australia, New Zealand.... If the show doesn't work out, you do what every other broadcaster in the world does...you sit down and start to work on the next great show! A really simple and effective business plan that has proven success.
The cost of producing a great show in Canada is about the same as it is in the US, but the revenue opportunity is 10x in the US. Hence why you see American networks produce dozens of new shows each season and seeing what sticks. That's not practical in Canada. If it was so simple to produce profitable, original programming in Canada, the networks would. Why wouldn't they?
Last edited by RadioAaron (December 17, 2019 10:20 pm)
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
An hour drama in the US comes in at $4 to 5 million per show. The only cost of a drama that I am aware of in Canada is Cardinal which had a budget of $2 million (Canadian) per show. So there is a fair bit of difference cost wise.
True it is not practical in Canada to have near the volume of shows in production, but that also doesn't mean that we don't try. And every so often, a show like Flashpoint, Rookie Blue, or The Listener (all initially didn't have a US partner) do get picked up and have some sort of success internationally. BBC 4 in the UK has run Cardinal to not bad ratings. Are they profitably, likely in time and with repeats they should be able to be marginally profitable or better.
I know I was trivializing the ease of programming successful cancon, but I grow so tired of the very defeatist, lazy and "whoa is me" attitude of some in our industry. Please, cancon is just an easy excuse to give up, complain and do nothing, or do the very minimum because "we don't like to be told what to do." Thank goodness there are new and young creative people coming into the industry that don't share that dated and tired viewpoint. Best thing is with technology a successful show doesn't always need a million dollar budget.
Even though I am not a big Bell Media fan, they seem to me to be making some very interesting and good moves. Programming wise, marketing wise, ownership of Pinewood Studios Toronto and the fact that they are going against the grain to a certain extent with CRAVE and doing not too bad, for now. Speaking of cancon, CRAVE to their credit programs some interesting and excellent Canadian movies. I know they need to schedule some but they do it the right way, just treat it like any other movie, same rotation as all of the rest. Some of the movies I have watched I wasn't even aware it was a cancon flick. That is a bit of a compliment in itself! And the sad thing is most of these movies other than TIFF or a few other movie festivals played in no or very few movie houses, and this in their own country.
Also like the fact that Netflix, CBS, Disney are all investing in programming and facilities here. Will the programming be Canadian stories? Not likely, maybe a bit but not much. That to a certain extent is not the point. cancon does not need to be overtly Canadian, but some stories will get told. There is a great opportunity right now for Canadian television and movie production, which is growing stronger every year. But Canadians should be at least able to view some of these very good films and productions.
Last edited by paterson1 (December 17, 2019 11:15 pm)
- FanOfPromos
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Years ago when I was at CTV they did a game show that counted towards cancon. It never aired on the network nor was it meant to be. Simply producing it got the credits. When I was at Food Network they started doing BB's that made no sense, suddenly they were promoting a show after the show coming up -that was cancon. The BB's for "coming up next" etc counted as Cancon as well. Lawyer will figure out a painless way around the laws.
- Dale Patterson
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
We sometimes forget there are some very good Canadian productions. One of them is Mayday, the documentary show about aircraft disasters. I've seen virtually every episode since its inception in 2003. Excellent program for anyone interested in aviation.
(Canadian_TV_series)
"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
- Media Observer
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
A well researched and produced series.
- mace
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
I suspect some people suffer from the "Trouble With Tracy" syndrome. That was a horrible Canadian program, so that means all Canadian produced programs are bad. Times have obviously changed. There is some good quality product being made now. If the script is good and the characters are likeable, viewers will tune in. Regarding Top Rated Neilsen U.S. Series with low numbers: There is just so much more choice now. The ratings pie today is incredibly fractured. At one time, terrible ratings meant certain cancellation. Today, other factors are considered. 1. If the series wins, or at least is competitive in its time slot. 2. If it is inexpensive to produce. [COPS lasted 24 years on Saturday nights on FOX] 3. If the series is produced by the network, instead of an outside studio. In that senario, the network usually gives a show more time to find its audience.
- radiokid
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Personally, I think FORCED airplay, FORCED streaming does not make content better, does not speak to the market's wants and needs, and actually does a disservice to artists. I have no issue with a Canadian FUND, being paid into to support Canadian artists/shows, but they should be at the same level playing field as international at this point for eyes/ears. I also would not have an issue if it was a credit given to content providers if they offer Canadian content. BUT FORCED play/stream does 0 to encourage quality, does not allow the public to decide what's good and what isn't, and gives automatic rights payment that hinders effort towards Canadian shows/music by a "I get automatic airplay anyhow" attitude. It's time we grew up in this country.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Personally, I think FORCED airplay, FORCED streaming does not make content better, does not speak to the market's wants and needs, and actually does a disservice to artists. I have no issue with a Canadian FUND, being paid into to support Canadian artists/shows, but they should be at the same level playing field as international at this point for eyes/ears. I also would not have an issue if it was a credit given to content providers if they offer Canadian content. BUT FORCED play/stream does 0 to encourage quality, does not allow the public to decide what's good and what isn't, and gives automatic rights payment that hinders effort towards Canadian shows/music by a "I get automatic airplay anyhow" attitude. It's time we grew up in this country.
FORCED is not the correct term. These programs are being offered the same as any other. If you don't want it, don't watch it, just like any other program. There are lots of choices, more than ever to choose from. Many people are unaware that some of the current music they like on the radio or TV shows they enjoy (Mayday, Curse of Oak Island, $chitt's Creek, Cardinal, Private Eyes) are Canadian productions and are quite popular. All of these shows by the way have been sold and are shown all over the world. So I guess it does in fact allow the public to decide what is good and what isn't.
The only part of your statement that I would agree with would be the last line...Yes it is time we grew up, and get over ourselves, stop being lazy, with endless excuses why we can't, and get on with it. Broadcasters in every other country do, and many have regulations and issues that often are more arduous than what we have.
- Leslieville Bill
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Is Storage Wars Canada, the replica of the American show, Canadian content? What about Family Feud Canada? If so, then let's give up the CanCon rules now. I want real Canadian stories and ideas not bad imitations of American ones.
Last edited by Leslieville Bill (December 18, 2019 5:40 pm)
- Not an industry person. Just a guy with a love of Toronto radio.
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Good question and point Bill. Cancon however doesn't always need to be about our stories or anything heavy. Canadian broadcasters, especially the CBC, sometimes get too wrapped up in the "Canadian Thing" and forget about entertainment, and shows that don't demand much of the viewer.
Shows like Storage Wars, Family Feud, The List, Wheel of Fortune have local versions all around the world. Even the US has replicated many UK shows that originally were hits in Britain (Pop Idol which became American Idol, The Weakest Link, Hell's Kitchen, Master Chef and many others.
Are the shows you mention bad imitations? Some are but many also do fairly well in the ratings on specialty channels. I think Canadian Pickers was superior to the US version, and the two hosts funnier and more entertaining. Canadian Idol when it was on the air was more interesting musically and I think a better show than the US version which I always thought featured too many slow ballads and singers who were fixated too much on "vocal gymnastics."
Some Canadian productions from the specialty channels have been picked up and done well in the US, UK, Australia and in Europe. Shows like the Property Brothers, Just for Laughs, Holmes on Holmes, Property Virgins, Rescue 401, At the End of My Leash, Love it or List it, Ice Road Truckers and others have all had success outside of Canada. And all of these shows were shot and produced here.
So it is like anything else, some are well done and popular, and others not so much. That's how it is everywhere else, and I don't think that cancon means that a show is destined to be considered inferior or poor quality.
- Retaw
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Canadian film is entirely irrelevant to audiences outside of Quebec. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens to Canadian television with the decline of linear viewing. We're apparently a "post national" country, so our governments shouldn't be fighting against that. If there is no "Canadian," then we should be fine with shows that are shot here, but pretend to be in the U.S.
- Dial Twister
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Some Canadian productions from the specialty channels have been picked up and done well in the US, UK, Australia and in Europe. Shows like the Property Brothers, Just for Laughs, Holmes on Holmes, Property Virgins, Rescue 401, At the End of My Leash, Love it or List it, Ice Road Truckers and others have all had success outside of Canada. And all of these shows were shot and produced here.
A few years ago, I would have said that you're nuts if you thought I'd be watching a one-hour show about tow trucks. Then I happened across Heavy Rescue 401 and Highway Through Hell. The rest is history.
None of the aforementioned puns were intended).
- paterson1
- Member
Offline
Re: Govt. Wants To Force Canadian Content On U.S. Streaming Services
Canadian film is entirely irrelevant to audiences outside of Quebec. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens to Canadian television with the decline of linear viewing. We're apparently a "post national" country, so our governments shouldn't be fighting against that. If there is no "Canadian," then we should be fine with shows that are shot here, but pretend to be in the U.S.
Well Justin seems to think we are a "post national country" at least that is what he said to the New York Times. Gotta get that seat on the UN Security Council one way or the other eh, prime minister?? Just because the PM thinks so doesn't mean that we are a post national state. Most people disagree with him on that.
Don't know if I would go as far to say that Canadian film is entirely irrelevant to audiences outside of Quebec. Canadian films are usually well received at movie festivals like TIFF. The problem is access to the general public who are sort of oblivious to Canadian movies. Part of the reason local movies are irrelevant to many is because most of our movies are independent and usually aren't shown in movie theatres or very few with a limited run of a few days. So audiences really don't have a lot of opportunity to see Canadian movie productions. Are the movies any good? Like anything else, some are dreadful and some are excellent, but either way all have big problems getting exposure and actually played anywhere.
Quebec willingly promotes and encourages local productions, and their product is available in theatres across the province. Many Quebec movies are successful and make money. Some Quebec movies actually have more success in the US than many English Canadian productions simply because they made money and were well received back home. That's why often when a Canadian movie is nominated for an Oscar, it is often a French language sub-titled production from Quebec.
In terms of streaming, I hope that the new services will offer Canadian movies in the mix. I actually think people will be surprised that some services will do so willingly since they likely offer local movies in other markets around the world.
And with Netflix, Disney, CBS and maybe a few others investing in studios and productions in Canada it isn't really that big a stretch.
We shouldn't get too hung up about the movie being overtly Canadian. Cities or countries being passed off as somewhere else has been a part of the movie business since day one. The stories will get told and they are being told. Now if we can just get the product at least available for people to see it, then we can actually decide if the movie is crap or really good. And not just base our opinions on emotion and that terrible little Canadian movie we viewed many years ago.
Last edited by paterson1 (December 19, 2019 7:38 pm)