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December 6, 2019 1:46 pm  #1


Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Hello folks,

I had posted back in September that I was having an issue where I lost WKBW (display 7.1 - 7.4). Then it came back and life was good (except for losing WIVB/WNLO after the repack). Over the past month I have lost almost all of my US channels. The only stations I can still get are WNED, FOX, ION. I'm a little east of the DVP near the lake in Toronto. I have an indoor TERK HDTVa (with amplifier)

At the time of the WIVB/WNLO repack I was able to get out of Buffalo:
WGRZ (2.1) Mostly perfect
WIVB (4.1) Lost after the repack
WKBW (7.1) Perfect
WNED (17.1) Perfect
WNLO (23.1) Lost after repack
WUTV (29.1) Perfect
WNYO (49.1) Mostly perfect
WPXJ (51.1) Perfect

Then about a month ago I lost everything except WNED, FOX and ION. Then very weirdly one night last week (after midnight) I happened to check 4.1 and it was coming in crystal clear as was 23.1. I then checked 2.1, 7.1 and 49.1 and they too were all crystal clear. It was like the power had been turned off for these transmitters then someone flipped the switch and turned them back on. By morning though they were gone. A couple nights later the same thing... all were back crystal clear. Now they're gone again. I have tried moving my antenna but to no avail.

Two questions:
1. Does anyone have insight as to what might be going on with 2.1, 7.1, 49.1? I believe WKBW (7.1) and WNYO (49.1) are about to move early 2020. Could this be related to that? 2.1 has always been spotty for me so I'm less concerned about losing that.
2. Re: WIVB/WNLO I read somewhere (not sure if it was on this forum or maybe it was DigitalHome that after the this repack they were only running on a temporary antenna about 2/3 of the way up the tower but they were supposed to move it to the top in the fall so we might regain those stations. Does anyone know if that has happened. I thought maybe that's why I was suddenly able to pull them in so clearly. Is there still  hope to regain 

Thanks for any insight into this. You're the only group of people I can ask as to whether others are experiencing the same issues. All of my friends are on cable. :-)

 

December 6, 2019 2:03 pm  #2


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

I'm guessing part of your problem is lack of an outdoor antenna. It's likely you can't put one up, so the indoor version is your only choice. 

I'm in northern North York and I've had problems with Channels 4 & 32 since the repack. I expected it once they moved back to Colden, N,Y., but I lament them having to take WNLO with WIVB, since the former once had one of the strongest signals into the GTA. And yes, hopefully when they return to full power (and possibly a better tower) the problem will resolve itself. 

I've had problems with WKBW ever since the conversion from analog to digital. It's perfect some days, terrible or non-existent the next and sometimes there are video and audio "hits" in the middle of otherwise OK reception. It happens even when the signal strength and signal quality is near 100%. Never been able to figure it out but it's been going on for years. Will the coming repack round finally fix it? Hopefully yes, but we won't know until 2020.

WNED has also become a hit-and-miss proposition for me, after once sending a very strong signal here. Surprising, given how much they depend on Canadian - especially Toronto - viewers. (Even their ID says "Buffalo-Toronto.")

What really surprises me about your post is your trouble with WGRZ. Channel 2 and its various subcarriers come in perfectly here 24 hours a day, once of the strongest Buffalo stations into my area. That, and WUTV (since their repack move) are very solid performers here. 

The big change factor in the last check you wrote about is almost certainly the weather, which the past few weeks has been mostly terrible. My guess is that has a fair amount to do with your troubles. Unfortunately, there's no cure for winter!

Good luck and hope things get better for you.    

 

December 6, 2019 2:42 pm  #3


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

I have an outdoor antenna mounted on the roof and no issues.  Did lose WNED for a week and a half but it's back now.  the 7's can be an issue at times.  The lake needs to freeze!

 

December 6, 2019 4:18 pm  #4


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

I experienced the opposite lately in a weird way......this past summer I lost even some Toronto channels to the point where I was scanning only 6 OTA channels.  I thought my splitter was the issue.  I bought a new splitter for my DB4E balcony railing mounted antenna that serves 2 televisions and I had a LTE filter this whole time right before the splitter.  Same result.  Then I removed the LTE filter and got back a solid 40 channels always stable.

Wonder why this was.

As for your indoor antenna luckily you have one of the stronger ones!   

 

December 6, 2019 8:04 pm  #5


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Do you have a balcony to which you could attach your antenna? Hopefully your apartment faces south or southwest.

 

December 7, 2019 3:28 pm  #6


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Thanks for the replies everyone! For three years I was consistently getting all of the Buffalo channels with pretty near perfect quality. As others mentioned I too would periodically lose them (spring, summer, fall, winter) but not like this (meaning for this long and so many of the channels). I got to thinking if it wasn't related to the Buffalo transmitters/repacks then maybe it's something related to Toronto (maybe some new interference from the CN tower or something like that).

I live in a house and can put an antenna outside if needed but up until now I haven't had to consider it. My TERK has been amazing! Added to this my setup is simple. The antenna goes straight into my TV (no splitters or anything). I guess I will wait to see until after the 2020 moves (Buffalo) and hope things improve and also hope the Canadian moves don't cause further issues!

Life was so good before the repack! The only bonus was ION moving to Grand Island! This station is awesome! :-) As long as I get my WNED (which has not been affected at all) and ION I am fine but miss 49.1 and it's substations so if I can ask for only one of them to return it would be this one! :-)

     Thread Starter
 

December 7, 2019 3:57 pm  #7


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

The fact that people use antennas in 2019 is just amazing to me. 

Last edited by cash (December 7, 2019 3:58 pm)

 

December 7, 2019 5:33 pm  #8


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

cash wrote:

The fact that people use antennas in 2019 is just amazing to me. 

OTA has seen a major resurgence in the U.S. since the digital switchover. That hasn't happened here because all of our broadcasters have shrunk their OTA footprint dramatically and no one's taken advantage of the sub-channel concept. Some do that because they're vertically integrated with pay-TV providers who don't want to diminish the value of their paid services. The others are public broadcasters who only want to serve parts of the public.

 

December 7, 2019 7:54 pm  #9


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Retaw wrote:

cash wrote:

The fact that people use antennas in 2019 is just amazing to me. 

OTA has seen a major resurgence in the U.S. since the digital switchover. That hasn't happened here because all of our broadcasters have shrunk their OTA footprint dramatically and no one's taken advantage of the sub-channel concept. Some do that because they're vertically integrated with pay-TV providers who don't want to diminish the value of their paid services. The others are public broadcasters who only want to serve parts of the public.

sub-channel???
 

 

December 8, 2019 7:42 am  #10


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

cash wrote:

Retaw wrote:

cash wrote:

The fact that people use antennas in 2019 is just amazing to me. 

OTA has seen a major resurgence in the U.S. since the digital switchover. That hasn't happened here because all of our broadcasters have shrunk their OTA footprint dramatically and no one's taken advantage of the sub-channel concept. Some do that because they're vertically integrated with pay-TV providers who don't want to diminish the value of their paid services. The others are public broadcasters who only want to serve parts of the public.

sub-channel???
 

WGRZ 2-1=NBC. 2-2=Antenna TV. 2-3=Justice Network. 2-4=Quest.

 

December 8, 2019 3:13 pm  #11


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Hello TechGirl.   WKBW has reduced power to 358Kw and is using a side-mounted antenna because they must replace the feedline and antenna at the top of the tower.  They will transition to Ch. 34 (currently on 38) on or before 13 March 2020.   The transition period begins on January 18, 2020 and ends on March 13, 2020.  But don't expect many changes in Buffalo TV before the "drop dead" date of March 13th.

WIVB (ch4) and WNLO (ch 23) will not have a helicopter crew available until spring 2020 to complete their tower work, at which time there will be a significant signal improvement in Toronto.  I've noticed the signal is now stable - after trees around my home lost their leaves (wet leaves are fatal to UHF signals).
WNED will also transition...Look for an improvement in on or before 13 March 2020 when they move to Ch. 31 (now on 43).   Also, there should be an improvement to Ch. 49 on or before 13 March 2020 when they move to Ch. 16.  But that may be difficult to receive in parts of toronto as Global and Omni TV may interfere with Ch 16 when they eventually transition channels.  However, Ch.49 will be moving from outside of Buffalo, much closer to the Cdn. border - to a Grand Island NY site.  So reception could be on par with WUTV if your antenna is not pointed at the CN Tower.

Expect a slight signal increase from Ch. 2 - which has authority to increase power.  They are not moving tower sites.   Ch 51 ION (WPXJ) is as good as it will get. Although they may be increasing the height of their antenna on their tower.

After 13 March, all of the major US changes in this region will be done, save for perhaps WIVB/WNLO's tower work.   My bet is that they will have the same helicopter crew complete construction changes to their tower when WKBW makes their changes, because the two sites are very close together.  

One last tip for TechGirl and any other OTA viewers.   Amazon Prime (Canada) has been selling the XG-91 outdoor antenna for under $80 delivered.  Dollar for dollar it is probably the best designed OTA on the market today.  It is selling in stores out in the suburbs for well over $100.   I replaced what were once top of the line UHF directional yagis and saw a significant signal improvement. The antenna is well made and you have the choice of assembling it as a smaller antenna if you don't need the extra signal gain.   It's a bargain at $80 versus a monthly cable bill

Last edited by tvguy (December 8, 2019 3:19 pm)

 

December 8, 2019 4:22 pm  #12


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Very informative and helpful tvguy. Thanks for taking time to spell out all those details. I’m in Oakville and never can pick up the 49s. Maybe that will change by March 13.

My experience on the last set of changes was to receive the 51s very strongly since then and hardly at all before then.

 

December 9, 2019 12:00 pm  #13


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

cash wrote:

The fact that people use antennas in 2019 is just amazing to me. 

The U.S OTA stations are amazing. For example ION Television runs all day marathons such as Blue Bloods, Chicago P.D., Law & Order (all of the L&O's), Criminal Minds, etc. No news or any other programming like game shows, etc. Other U.S specialty OTA stations like Comet show only horror and sci-fi shows. Most of these are independent providers that aren't tied to the any of the big paid providers. OTA is huge in the U.S. We are lucky to be near the Buffalo market to be able to pick up these stations. Canada has just let this opportunity slip away, because as mentioned, most of our stations are now owned by either Bell or Rogers so they have no interest in developing free OTA TV when they can force people to pay through cable subscriptions. The U.S. is always bringing new channels to OTA.

Sub-channels, as mentioned, are when channels piggy-back on a main channel. When I scroll through my list of channels when I hit channel 7 (which is 7.1, ABC) there are three more channels after this, 7.2=LAFF, 7.3=Escape and 7.4=GRIT). These are all specialty channels. An example was given of the 2.1 series of channels. I receive 29 U.S. stations and most of these are in HD (uncompressed HD so the quality is far superior than through cable).

If I need anything beyond these (which I don't) then I can always subscribe to a streaming service to fill the gaps.
 

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 12:16 pm  #14


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

tvguy wrote:

Hello TechGirl.   WKBW has reduced power to 358Kw and is using a side-mounted antenna because they must replace the feedline and antenna at the top of the tower.  They will transition to Ch. 34 (currently on 38) on or before 13 March 2020.   The transition period begins on January 18, 2020 and ends on March 13, 2020.  But don't expect many changes in Buffalo TV before the "drop dead" date of March 13th....

THANKS for this tvguy!! All of the changes you mentioned are the stations I'm now having issues with so hopefully there will be a return to normality by March. The channels I'm having issue with are the 2's, 4's, 7's, 23's, 49s (previously these were coming in crystal clear). The 4's/23's are explainable, the others are just recent (over the past month). The 17's, 29's and 51's are all fine. I am keeping my fingers crossed that all will turn out well! :-) Ironically early this morning (about 1am Monday morning) all of the 2's were back again (crystal clear) but I have since lost them again. So weird!

BTW: Is Quest (2.4) new? I thought the 2's only went to 2.3.

Thanks also for the recommendation on the antenna. I might have to go that route, especially if there is interference from the Canadian channels once they move. I rather have the 49's than Global or Omni! I don't watch Omni and the one show I watch on Global I can probably find elsewhere. LOL!!

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 3:09 pm  #15


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

WGRZ is an under-powered Buffalo station and given its distance, (480 kw) you are located well beyond reliable indoor reception.  Weather conditions - i.e. rain, snow attenuate the signal.  They have a small power increase to be implemented, and that may improve off-air reception.
Currently 2.1 is nbc, 2.2 is antenna; 2.3 is justice and 2.4 is quest

After the next repack in the Jan-March 2020 period the power may increase to 522 kw and the tower height might be extended by approximately 50 feet.  That may improve reception at your location. The application for the power increase still appears in the FCC's database as "pending" so the improvement in reception for WGRZ may be much further off.  That's why I'm using the word "might"....

 

December 9, 2019 3:21 pm  #16


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

tvguy wrote:

WGRZ is an under-powered Buffalo station and given its distance, (480 kw) you are located well beyond reliable indoor reception.  Weather conditions - i.e. rain, snow attenuate the signal.  They have a small power increase to be implemented, and that may improve off-air reception.
Currently 2.1 is nbc, 2.2 is antenna; 2.3 is justice and 2.4 is quest

After the next repack in the Jan-March 2020 period the power may increase to 522 kw and the tower height might be extended by approximately 50 feet.  That may improve reception at your location. The application for the power increase still appears in the FCC's database as "pending" so the improvement in reception for WGRZ may be much further off.  That's why I'm using the word "might"....

Yep, I'm over in the Greektown area of Toronto and it shows this area as "Poor" to get the 2's but surprisingly I was getting them fairly consistent for the past year. I just assumed changes had been made to their transmission but I'm guess I'm wrong. I can only assume it was simply all the planets and stars aligning to bring me this channel. :-) This is a series of channels that I very seldom watched and if there was anything on WGRZ I wanted to watch I could typically find it on either CTV or Global regardless. It's just always nice to get as many stations as possible but if I'm unable to get this set of channels I won't be heartbroken. I would rather have the 4's/23's, 7's and 49's. :-)

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 3:34 pm  #17


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

TechGirl wrote:

I'm over in the Greektown

F I V E   S i X   N i N E Danforth Rd..... Saully, Saully, King of all the Saully's....
 

 

December 9, 2019 4:23 pm  #18


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

@tvguy... one more thing I forgot to mention and ask...

One thing weird that's going on with the 7's (1-4) is that they haven't been displaying on their "display channels" for over a week now. They're showing up on their physical channels of 38.3, 38.4 and 38.5 (I'm assuming there should also be 38.6 but that's not appearing....hopefully that isn't off the air). If I put in 33.1 for example it bounces over to 2.1 (even though I'm getting "no signal" from the station). This is the same for the others (36 bounces to 4, etc.) but 38 isn't bouncing. I've had this happen at varying times with all of the stations for a short period of time (maybe just a few hours) where I've had to turn to the physical channel but something eventually clicks in and they bounce to their display channels again. I'm not sure if the issue is with my reception or the issue is at transmission.

As mentioned I lost the display channels for the 7's I think about a week ago. Do you know what might be going on?

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 6:27 pm  #19


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Not happening here... have you rescanned recently??

 

December 9, 2019 6:43 pm  #20


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

pinto wrote:

Not happening here... have you rescanned recently??

Thanks @pinto!

No. I haven't rescanned since the WIVB/WNLO change. I noticed these were still on 38 so wasn't planning to rescan until they switched to 34. They seem to be showing properly on their physical channels as 38.3 - 38.5 (although I'm assuming it's 7.4/38.6 that's missing).

Maybe I will try a rescan out of curiosity. :-)

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 6:49 pm  #21


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Not sure what your TV set-up is, but on many units you can do a manual rescan. Instead of having to do a complete scan of every station, you simply pick the one you want - in this case Channel 7 on 38, and see if it finds anything new or fixes the issue. It's worked for me before and remember on most full rescans, if a station is missing at the time you do it (because of weather or it's not coming in for some reason) it won't find it and let you get it even if it does start to come in later. 

Again, your set-up may vary but it's worth trying first.  

 

December 9, 2019 10:27 pm  #22


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

RadioActive wrote:

Not sure what your TV set-up is, but on many units you can do a manual rescan. Instead of having to do a complete scan of every station, you simply pick the one you want - in this case Channel 7 on 38, and see if it finds anything new or fixes the issue. It's worked for me before and remember on most full rescans, if a station is missing at the time you do it (because of weather or it's not coming in for some reason) it won't find it and let you get it even if it does start to come in later. 

Again, your set-up may vary but it's worth trying first.  

@RadioActive. Thanks for this... yes, that's typically what I do when it's only one or two channels that have changed (which is what I did for the WIVB/WNLO change). I was thinking I might try a full rescan simply because so many channels have gone wonky on me. What's also weird with my issue is that, for example, with 2.1 - 2.4 I'm getting the station id's showing up even though I'm getting "no signal" on the channels. Usually when I lose a station I might still see it in my list but I don't get the station id and I get "no signal". On the extreme I won't see the stations at all meaning I will see 2.1 with "no signal" and no station id and will only see 2.1 (I won't see the sub-channels) and even going to 33.1 I just see 33.1 (not 33.1 - 33.4) and it doesn't bounce to 2.1.

I will probably just try to remove 38 and re-add it. If that does nothing I might attempt the full rescan and keep my fingers crossed. :-)
 

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 10:43 pm  #23


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

I just did a delete/re-add and the 7's are totally gone. 38 just shows as 38.1 now (no sub-stations) and it doesn't bounce to 7.1 anymore which is so weird. This was definitely one of the stronger ones I used to get as of about a month ago. There is some bad juju going on. I keep my fingers crossed it returns (along with the others). Aaack! I wonder if the booster has died on my antenna. I can still get 17, 29, 51 crystal clear but I think they're closer regardless.

     Thread Starter
 

December 9, 2019 11:30 pm  #24


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

I wouldn't panic just yet. The wet weather is a big factor tonight and I'm not getting a sniff on Channels 4, 23 or 7, which sometimes happens when it's very damp out. Wait until it clears out tomorrow and see if things come back when you do the re-scan. Usually the second time's the charm.  

 

December 10, 2019 12:08 am  #25


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

I must have good luck because my south pointing DB4E 3rd floor balcony rail mount in Etobicoke facing a tree locks in a good 42 channels (counts the sub-channels).  On the tv signal reader ION 51 comes in a 100% signal.  This must be a blowtorch of a signal.  

I oddly always get Global 6 from Paris Ont even in bad weather.

My neighbour just put up a outdoor antenna aswell last week but his seems to be that Digiwave copy of the Channel Master antennas.

Last edited by markow202 (December 10, 2019 12:09 am)

 

December 10, 2019 6:44 am  #26


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

When my parents were alive, and residing in West Oakville, they had a Channel Master 4221 on a 30' tower with a rotor. 4,7,17 and 23 all came in at 100% in any weather conditions. 26 and 29 were usually in the 60% range. 2 and 49 were 50%. In wet weather, 2 and 49 would drop to around 25% and start to pixilate. The only time 51 and 67 were available was under tropo conditions.

 

December 10, 2019 12:37 pm  #27


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

Hopefully the OTA Gods smile upon me once again. LOL I'm beginning to wonder if something is going on in downtown Toronto (either CN Tower or something else like the Island Airport) that just started. I was driving on the Gardiner through the downtown area (jarvis, yonge, spadina) a couple weeks ago and my radio suddenly started crackling and humming really bad. It didn't clear until I got out around Bathurst. I haven't had that happen before. My antenna faces in this direction. Hmmm. :-)

     Thread Starter
 

December 10, 2019 12:38 pm  #28


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

markow202 wrote:

I must have good luck because my south pointing DB4E 3rd floor balcony rail mount in Etobicoke facing a tree locks in a good 42 channels (counts the sub-channels).  On the tv signal reader ION 51 comes in a 100% signal.  This must be a blowtorch of a signal.  

I oddly always get Global 6 from Paris Ont even in bad weather.

My neighbour just put up a outdoor antenna aswell last week but his seems to be that Digiwave copy of the Channel Master antennas.

You get signals from Paris Ontario in Etobicoke? Wow, I didn't think they broadcasted that far!
 

     Thread Starter
 

December 10, 2019 4:09 pm  #29


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

TechGirl wrote:

Hopefully the OTA Gods smile upon me once again. LOL I'm beginning to wonder if something is going on in downtown Toronto (either CN Tower or something else like the Island Airport) that just started. I was driving on the Gardiner through the downtown area (jarvis, yonge, spadina) a couple weeks ago and my radio suddenly started crackling and humming really bad. It didn't clear until I got out around Bathurst. I haven't had that happen before. My antenna faces in this direction. Hmmm. :-)

Certainly you werent listening to a CN Tower station?   If it was some other station such as a Buffalo one or Z103.5 then it was simply being overloaded by the CN Tower signals. Normal. 

 

December 10, 2019 4:11 pm  #30


Re: Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

TechGirl wrote:

markow202 wrote:

I must have good luck because my south pointing DB4E 3rd floor balcony rail mount in Etobicoke facing a tree locks in a good 42 channels (counts the sub-channels).  On the tv signal reader ION 51 comes in a 100% signal.  This must be a blowtorch of a signal.  

I oddly always get Global 6 from Paris Ont even in bad weather.

My neighbour just put up a outdoor antenna aswell last week but his seems to be that Digiwave copy of the Channel Master antennas.

You get signals from Paris Ontario in Etobicoke? Wow, I didn't think they broadcasted that far!
 

Although it doesnt come in strong (one to two bars on tv and on a good night half strength on the bar graph)  its stable for the most part.

I seem to live in a good zone for OTA (Kipling/Eglinton) of Central Etobicoke.  Partially because it is on a higher elevation.  Judging by view, my antenna in a straight line is higher than the tallest condo at Parklawn and Lakeshore.