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August 3, 2019 9:41 am  #61


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Much improved reception on stations.  I receive ION-51 in almost full strength!  I still have no idea what is with CFMT on my set.  CIII-6 Paris also coming in strong all day.  Did they change something aswell? 

 

August 3, 2019 10:39 am  #62


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Interesting reading. These musical chairs must be costing the stations a lot of money!

 

August 3, 2019 1:29 pm  #63


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Global Paris moved to RF 23 August 2nd and according to the ISED database, they increased power as well. Now they are at 140kW up from 97k.

 

August 5, 2019 7:08 pm  #64


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Wikipedia - which is not often the most reliable source - states that WNYB, Channel 26, moved to VHF channel 5 on August 2nd as part of the repack. If that's true, I'm not sure we'll be able to get it here in the GTA anymore. I've been checking periodically and I haven't seen it in days, despite the fact it used to come in very well here. Efforts to rescan using channel 5 show a signal too weak for my DVR to grab hold of.

Also I'm wondering if anyone else is having this problem. Once YesTV moved off of channel 36 and onto channel 14 - without restoring its PSIP to appear on its old location - my DVR's TV guide continually says "No information" about what's on the station.

Not that I watch it a lot, but it would be worthwhile having that info - YesTV just began a new overnight strategy of showing some rarely seen vintage shows like "Chicago Hope" and "The Wonder Years" and it would be nice to be able to record them without having to set it manually. 

     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2019 7:51 pm  #65


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

The Beverly Hillbillies follow the Wonder Years from 2:30-3:30am.

 

August 5, 2019 8:23 pm  #66


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Hey Radioactive....

Although it's apples and oranges, WNYB 26 operated at 5 million watts ERP with a directional antenna that focused the power to the north (ie. Canada). With their tower height, some great UHF propagation on the escarpment near Arkwright NY, and that directional beam they had one of the greatest signals in all of north america.  Think back to those border-blasters in Mexico in the 60's - it was a no-lose situation..  The channel 5 assignment is only 5,000 watts.  But here's the problem.  Yes, you need more power to propagate a signal on Ch 26, but this was a super-powered beast.   However even though digital ERP on VHF is lower than Analogue for 60 mile coverage, the propagation of digital signals on Low-Band VHF isn't cutting it.  WGBH PBS Boston moved to lowband VHF this past weekend, and they are scrambling to deal with the poor propagation and viewer complaints. I believe they added a sub-carrier onto sister station WGBX to retransmit WGBH in standard definition. For the past number of years, most stations have been broadcasting on UHF so anyone using OTA equipment has probably upgraded or replaced their antennas with UHF antennas that have reasonable gain.  A UHF antenna simply won't work on low-band VHF - CHCH found out the hard way, and went to Ch 15 (from 11) after the initial digital transition in the 2000' - and CHCH was on high-band VHF on top of the Niagara Escarpment!.  And that's the rub.  Very few people have high-gain VHF antennas that perform comparably to good UHF antennas.  And, most likely unless you have a massive deep fringe Channel master antenna, the VHF low-band performance is just not there.   BTW, I have long suspected that the hundreds of high-rise buildings that line Toronto's downtown and west end, also contribute to weak VHF reception from the US.  WNYB's owners got paid a major ransom to transition to VHF low-band - so it is likely they are satisfied with cable carriage in Western NY and Eastern Pa.  Not to get too geeky, but a $76 UHF yagi on Amazon.ca will deliver up to 16.5 DB of UHF gain, in the "repack" band of UHF channels.  You'd need a monster VHF antenna costing hundreds of bucks to give you any significant gain.

Last edited by tvguy (August 5, 2019 8:26 pm)

 

August 5, 2019 8:39 pm  #67


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

Hey Radioactive....

Although it's apples and oranges, WNYB 26 operated at 5 million watts ERP with a directional antenna that focused the power to the north (ie. Canada). With their tower height, some great UHF propagation on the escarpment near Arkwright NY, and that directional beam they had one of the greatest signals in all of north america.  Think back to those border-blasters in Mexico in the 60's - it was a no-lose situation..  The channel 5 assignment is only 5,000 watts.  But here's the problem.  Yes, you need more power to propagate a signal on Ch 26, but this was a super-powered beast.   However even though digital ERP on VHF is lower than Analogue for 60 mile coverage, the propagation of digital signals on Low-Band VHF isn't cutting it.  WGBH PBS Boston moved to lowband VHF this past weekend, and they are scrambling to deal with the poor propagation and viewer complaints. I believe they added a sub-carrier onto sister station WGBX to retransmit WGBH in standard definition. For the past number of years, most stations have been broadcasting on UHF so anyone using OTA equipment has probably upgraded or replaced their antennas with UHF antennas that have reasonable gain.  A UHF antenna simply won't work on low-band VHF - CHCH found out the hard way, and went to Ch 15 (from 11) after the initial digital transition in the 2000' - and CHCH was on high-band VHF on top of the Niagara Escarpment!.  And that's the rub.  Very few people have high-gain VHF antennas that perform comparably to good UHF antennas.  And, most likely unless you have a massive deep fringe Channel master antenna, the VHF low-band performance is just not there.   BTW, I have long suspected that the hundreds of high-rise buildings that line Toronto's downtown and west end, also contribute to weak VHF reception from the US.  WNYB's owners got paid a major ransom to transition to VHF low-band - so it is likely they are satisfied with cable carriage in Western NY and Eastern Pa.  Not to get too geeky, but a $76 UHF yagi on Amazon.ca will deliver up to 16.5 DB of UHF gain, in the "repack" band of UHF channels.  You'd need a monster VHF antenna costing hundreds of bucks to give you any significant gain.

Thanks for that TVguy. I still have a VHF antenna - along with the UHF one that's on my rotor - from days of yore. But yore - er, you're - right, I think WNYB may be gone for good. I can't even get a sniff off of channel 5. It's not a big deal if it's gone in the end. But it was another signal to get and I like pulling in all that are out there to be gotten.

I guess this is just another victim of the repack here in the GTA. 

Farewell WNYB. We hardly knew ye. (But then again we hardly ever watched ye!)

     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2019 8:53 pm  #68


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

This page from the AVS forum may be helpful to some. Many of the changes listed have already taken place. 

     Thread Starter
 

August 6, 2019 10:30 am  #69


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

Hey Radioactive....

Although it's apples and oranges, WNYB 26 operated at 5 million watts ERP with a directional antenna that focused the power to the north (ie. Canada). With their tower height, some great UHF propagation on the escarpment near Arkwright NY, and that directional beam they had one of the greatest signals in all of north america.  Think back to those border-blasters in Mexico in the 60's - it was a no-lose situation..  The channel 5 assignment is only 5,000 watts.  But here's the problem.  Yes, you need more power to propagate a signal on Ch 26, but this was a super-powered beast.   However even though digital ERP on VHF is lower than Analogue for 60 mile coverage, the propagation of digital signals on Low-Band VHF isn't cutting it.  WGBH PBS Boston moved to lowband VHF this past weekend, and they are scrambling to deal with the poor propagation and viewer complaints. I believe they added a sub-carrier onto sister station WGBX to retransmit WGBH in standard definition. For the past number of years, most stations have been broadcasting on UHF so anyone using OTA equipment has probably upgraded or replaced their antennas with UHF antennas that have reasonable gain.  A UHF antenna simply won't work on low-band VHF - CHCH found out the hard way, and went to Ch 15 (from 11) after the initial digital transition in the 2000' - and CHCH was on high-band VHF on top of the Niagara Escarpment!.  And that's the rub.  Very few people have high-gain VHF antennas that perform comparably to good UHF antennas.  And, most likely unless you have a massive deep fringe Channel master antenna, the VHF low-band performance is just not there.   BTW, I have long suspected that the hundreds of high-rise buildings that line Toronto's downtown and west end, also contribute to weak VHF reception from the US.  WNYB's owners got paid a major ransom to transition to VHF low-band - so it is likely they are satisfied with cable carriage in Western NY and Eastern Pa.  Not to get too geeky, but a $76 UHF yagi on Amazon.ca will deliver up to 16.5 DB of UHF gain, in the "repack" band of UHF channels.  You'd need a monster VHF antenna costing hundreds of bucks to give you any significant gain.

I think this might be also the case for CKVR - a station that was always VHF in analog with a big signal on channel 3!  Now its VHF but a weak signal.  Anyone pick it up in the Toronto area?  I never did in Etobicoke despite using a VHF dipole to try. 
 

 

August 6, 2019 10:46 am  #70


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I can get it if I turn my rotor up north. Otherwise, nothing. Of course, if I do that, I lose just about everything coming from the south. As a result, I can't recall the last time I ever watched anything on CKVR aka CTV2.

     Thread Starter
 

August 6, 2019 11:39 am  #71


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Can you not receive its Hamilton repeater in your normal aim? My cheap indoor antenna gets it fine.

 

August 6, 2019 11:51 am  #72


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Nope, I have to turn my rotor to the west to get that one to come in. It's not there unless I'm aiming away from Buffalo. 

     Thread Starter
 

August 6, 2019 12:13 pm  #73


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioAaron wrote:

Can you not receive its Hamilton repeater in your normal aim? My cheap indoor antenna gets it fine.

I do receive that one - sometimes finnicky 

 

August 6, 2019 2:15 pm  #74


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I guess it's my location. I'm got much less of a 'pro' setup than you guys seem to have.

 

August 6, 2019 3:34 pm  #75


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I can get WSEE and WJET with the recent tropo, but can't hold a strong signal on CFTO.. maddening.  All other Toronto/Hamilton/Buffalo channels are fine
 

 

August 6, 2019 5:21 pm  #76


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I had a call back from John Carrol, the engineer at WNLO/WIVB.  Good news I believe.   They don't have a date scheduled for the installation of the new antenna at the top of the Colden tower.  But it will be done this fall, perhaps by late September.   They will gain at least 300 feet over the current antenna and he is confident of reliable reception in the GTA.  More than that, they will add a 2nd polarity - which will be an improvement for penetrating walls of buildings.   The power will increase slightly - by about 20 kw from what they had when they were on Channel 39 a few years ago.   All in all, if you had consistent reception (which I had) from WIVB for many years on Ch. 39, you may see an improvement this fall.

 

August 6, 2019 5:30 pm  #77


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

I had a call back from John Carrol, the engineer at WNLO/WIVB.  Good news I believe.   They don't have a date scheduled for the installation of the new antenna at the top of the Colden tower.  But it will be done this fall, perhaps by late September.   They will gain at least 300 feet over the current antenna and he is confident of reliable reception in the GTA.  More than that, they will add a 2nd polarity - which will be an improvement for penetrating walls of buildings.   The power will increase slightly - by about 20 kw from what they had when they were on Channel 39 a few years ago.   All in all, if you had consistent reception (which I had) from WIVB for many years on Ch. 39, you may see an improvement this fall.

Awesome information of details youve been posting tvguy!  With all these antenna changes...does the CN Tower have to do the same?  I would think that VHF/UHF transmitting antennas were capable like receiving antennas (2-13 and 14-69) but I guess not.

 

August 6, 2019 6:04 pm  #78


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I agree. TVguy, Scott Fybush and others have been very generous with their time and info. I learn something new almost every time they post. 

     Thread Starter
 

August 8, 2019 9:55 pm  #79


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I'm not shilling for anyone, but I own two Channel Master OTA DVRs and they're great machines.

If you're in the market for one, the company sent out an email on Thursday indicating it's selling its upgraded DVR, called the Stream+, for just $95 U.S. It's a one day only offer and it's only good on Friday, August 9th, after which the price goes back up by an additional $55.

Here's the unlisted YouTube pitch if you're interested or want to see the machine in action. 



 

     Thread Starter