This sounds like a case of 'what goes around comes around.'

If you want new frequencies for your radio stations, you should be required to apply for them against all comers.

RA..  i agree with much of your premise with one outstanding issue.

Bell corus rogers did not intervene the first time... and newcap and mz only objected on technical issues.  that leads me to believe there will be little objection this time around.  simply put... in toronto isn' evanov simply replacing one blanket frequency with another?

i think the real bun fight will be with the orangeville and shelburne guys again.

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

But In looking at the coverage contours of these latest applications, the Dufferin County station would nest very nicely with the Jewels out of Newmarket and Brantford. That leaves the Toronto station to continue with its LGBTQ programming.

I have a feeling if approved, there will be a programming shift on both stations.

Z1035 will stay on the frequency it's on (under the same name or a new one).   What's left of Proud will move to an HD Sub Channel/Online offering.   It's very doubtful they will keep Proud on a 20K main signal.  

This leaves the NEW CIDC at 103.7 doing something different.   Country is my bet.    Doing the dance leaning CHR on a signal that focuses north of Toronto, isn't going to work.

This is all speculation, but a little common sense says they are doubtful to keep PROUD on the main signal on 1035 in Downtown, and blasting out the dance hits on 103.7 focused on mostly small communities. 

Last edited by radiokid (May 11, 2018 12:23 pm)

Irvine wrote:

And this whole CIDC is an "Orangeville" station is such a moot point.  The station went to Top 40/Dance sometime around 1994-5.  Having been a listener locally & from afar for much of that time I don't ever remember them telling the world they were from Orangeville.  So why is it suddenly an issue now?  Or is this just a "radio" tempest in a tea pot. 

Actually, it was the CRTC that made this a big deal. Evanov tried to make a case that many so-called Toronto stations - Q107, licenced to North York, CFNY, originally a Brampton station, and CFMJ which is legally in Richmond Hill - all get away with acting like Toronto outlets. So why not Z103.5?

In a ruling last December, the Commission ignored those examples and came down on them like a ton of bricks, insisting they serve their area of licence and report Orangeville news, traffic and weather, as well as other local events and to stop courting Toronto listeners and advertisers. It may not be entirely fair, but that was the decision and that's the only reason it ever became an issue.

Many here on the board, including yours truly, were of the opinion that they knew what they were applying for when they got that licence and they should have to live with the terms of the deal. However, I will acknowledge they do have a point about how those other stations don't entirely live up to serving only their areas of licence, either. 

It was a remarkable and very touchy exchange between the Evanvovs and the CRTC, with the former all but accusing the government agency of trying to drive them out of business in this market. And according to the new frequency exchange request, the company says that could still happen if this latest application is denied.

splunge wrote:

comparing toronto 'out of market' stations from north york or brampton to orangeville is apples to... well.. oranges.

as for who cares.... ask radio listeners in dufferin county what they think of this 'local' radio service. there is a reason why mbc and bayshore got and get so much support while cidc doesnt make a blip.

So, CFNY, CFMJ etc, are really Toronto stations OR the city of license? Those ARE a valid comparisons, oranges and oranges.

As for "who cares"? Your argument includes the notion that someone listens to a specific radio station exclusively because it is strictly originating from their place of presence is false. I don't see someone from Oshawa listening to that gawd-awful Satan-worshipping Rock station if their musical taste reflects classical.
 

Irvine wrote:

that almost 100% of the people they're serving won't give a sh*t if Evanov keeps doing what he's doing.  

splunge wrote:

i might invite you to read the crtc definition of a local radio station, followed by the local programming policy.  your broad stroke sentiment is understandable, but rules is rules.  

I understand. But, my issue is the notion that the average listener doesn't care if their station is truly local. Sure, they want local news and weather, but even that, can be obtained elsewhere without having to wait until the top of the hour.

People are in the mood for a format of music (or spoken word) and not exclusively because it originates from just up the street.
 

It's a very important point to note that places like Brampton are not Toronto.
Weather isn't even the same as in Toronto.
Plus also, areas in and around Brampton are growing rapidly.
Population there is growing. More homes etc.
Brampton should get it's own radio station, maybe even a My FM Brampton, but that's not happening...although I do see that there is now a... http://www.miltonnow.ca/ so yay Milton!  
& yes, people DO want something local to their area still, or at least as close as possible...something that says they're not Toronto when they're not in Toronto.
Good point about format, but at least the good people of Oshawa can choose between rock or oldies. 

 

Last edited by Radiowiz (May 13, 2018 10:38 am)

Irvine wrote:

I hear about this "radio app" being pushed by many stations and I wonder why.  The concept of the app & the smart phone is a one touch experience.  I don't go to the Canadian Bank app to get to TD Canada Trust, I go to their app.  It should be the same for radio stations. 

I have mixed feelings on the "radio app". It's an odd duck. While I enjoy the convenience of being able to flip the channel, the same could be done by individual apps. BUT, internal memory of the mobile could be an issue: if the aggregated app is 100+-mb, that's it. But, to have 5-10 individual apps, each at 100mb, it's space better suited to some other app.

That said, what's in it for the stations? They want to send you to the super-app, where their competition is also residing. Now, I am NOT the old-school radio person that believes you should treat your audience like they live in a vacuum and profess: there are no other radio stations, but, with features like "if you like X, then try Y" is far too easy to introduce the audience to the competition.
 

Jody Thornton wrote:

LOL ... sheesh - I mean, when did I ever say I thought AM Stereo had hope?  LOL.  Merit - yes.  I liked wideband AM because of the 10 K audio response.  It made AM sound more like FM (processing differences aside).  And then throw in stereo encoding, and AM could sound amazing.

But I concur that AM Stereo is dead.  I've never tried to counter that.
(I think Irvine's just having fun at my expense ...lol)

Irvine wrote:

Radio apps with 400 different stations are the modern day equivalent of people who listen to "skip" or think AM stereo still has hope (Hi Jody).  For the rest of us we don't care. 
 

 

I have said it here before. I had a Sony  AM stereo receiver and never managed to get a decent sound from it but this station broadcasts in AM stereo now and may have  mastered it :
540 The Goat
 

cGrant wrote:

splunge wrote:

comparing toronto 'out of market' stations from north york or brampton to orangeville is apples to... well.. oranges.

as for who cares.... ask radio listeners in dufferin county what they think of this 'local' radio service. there is a reason why mbc and bayshore got and get so much support while cidc doesnt make a blip.

So, CFNY, CFMJ etc, are really Toronto stations OR the city of license? Those ARE a valid comparisons, oranges and oranges.

As for "who cares"? Your argument includes the notion that someone listens to a specific radio station exclusively because it is strictly originating from their place of presence is false. I don't see someone from Oshawa listening to that gawd-awful Satan-worshipping Rock station if their musical taste reflects classical.
 

Actually, there is a difference as Brampton and North York are both part of the GTA while Orangeville isn't.

]

Irvine wrote:

And really, why should the commission tell a station what market they can sell advertising in?  If there are 40,000 listeners to Z103 in KW why not sell ads here?  If the local stations protest, well amp it up and work a little harder. 
 

That's a stronger debate for border radio stations.
101.1 FM in Niagara falls made more money targeting Buffalo area listeners, did they not? 
Chez 106 in Ottawa should be thankful that FOX FM's signal is too weak. 
Remember when Fox flew a plane over Ottawa with a banner than read "Go leafs go listen to CHEZ 106" LOL!!!
Priceless! 
Targeting Cornwall  Ontario would have been smarter though, since that's where the Fox's signal is/was stronger.

 

Irvine wrote:

@Mike Marshall

That wiki entry has existed for years and in this whole debate it's a moot point.  For several years I lived in the Rocky Mountains. To say winter is extreme there is an understatement as is any back country risk.  I frequently was delayed by avalanches (up to 4 days) and from heavy pounding snow.  Never once did I rely on FM radio as a source for information. 

It's no different in Orangeville whether you're getting your information from Z103 or My FM.  While Z is live most of the time it's unlikely they have a news team waiting around for another F4 tornado.  And it's likely MY FM is simply voice tracked in the evening so the tornado would hit, kill me & they'd hear of my death on the news the next morning when the station went live.  Assuming it was on the air. 

This is the fallacy of the "it's local" that is often referred to on this forum.  It's not even about being live, it's about having the resources to know *if* there is an emergency.  The only stations that do that would be 680 News or maybe 1010 CFRB.  So having a local station to tell me about a local tornado is a moot point.  That type of system is better suited to the smart phone world just like traffic is.   ""Hey Siri, what's the traffic conditions on the 401 to London" garners me a quicker more accurate answer than even 680 News does. 

The CRTC needs to leave Evanov alone and recognize all that his station HAS did for the industry. It's created decent stable jobs.  It's STUCK to it's format for a quarter century.  Along the way more than a few Cancon acts got their break because they took a chance playing them.  And for a while Z was the ONLY Toronto Top 40 station.  And for a longer while it gave us CHR fans outside of the city something to listen too.  It should be commended and recognized for what it's did for radio, not derided by some civil servant of some angry radio "insider". 
 

Well said.  CIDC was also always one of those out of the box stations and still is.  People who listen to them dont care where its from.  I grew up with the station in my younger years, and the signal was always an issue in the GTA however was cool to have a station you love pull in the GTA and the cottage.

 

I recall hearing a few years ago that Evanov was approaching debt-laden college radio stations like CIUT offering them cash for a frequency swap.

They're located in the part of the CRTC website Applications Open for Comment, which isn't always easy to find. The problem with linking to them is that you have to download a .zip file, so there's no pure page to link to. If you're game to see everything and don't mind putting the file on your phone or PC, here are the direct ways to get both

CIDC Application

CIRR Application

If you have trouble with those, you can find the general page here and scroll down to the two Dufferin Communications applications.  

And by the way, it's worth noting that among all the paperwork is a statement from Brookfield Properties confirming that, should the 103.5 swap be given, space would be available for a transmitter on First Canadian Place, combining with the existing CIRV at 88.9, with Dufferin picking up the tab for any costs incurred.