The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » The Day CHIC-FM Really Became CFNY

RadioActive · January 10, 2025 5:17 pm

I came across this article about the day one of the city's most important radio stations was just about to begin - CHIC-FM was a small nothing station in Brampton operating at 857 watts. You could hear it across the street and that was about it. But in 1977, the station got a power increase and then some - to an amazing 100,000 watts, which instantly made it a contender in the Toronto market.

It also caused some interference in places with nearby WBEN-FM, which had been attracting an increasing number of local listeners.

This story is about the newcomer, although no one knew at the time how it would shake-up the radio dial in Toronto, on its way to legendary status.

Fitz · January 11, 2025 5:14 am

Being a great fan of the old CHUM FM and hugely disappointed by it's AOR'ization at that point I had switched to WBUF FM ( and also CHIC FM on cable). I was very excited for that day of the power increase and captured some of it on tape including David Pritchard and Reiner Schwarz. NY would remain a great station for many years but that initial Pritchard era was very special and the last hurrah for truly eclectic mix on commercial radio,

A station that would play rock, folk, jazz, classical and bluegrass was what was missing since about 1974 and the demise of the free form CHUM FM.

CFNY July 1977

Last edited by Fitz (January 11, 2025 5:25 am)

mace · January 11, 2025 6:02 am

Living in Oakville back then, I was a HUGE fan of Rock 102. Possessing a small average quality stereo system armed with an old pair of television rabbit ears, I never experienced any interference from CFNY.

ERP 0W · January 12, 2025 10:26 pm

Fitz wrote:
NY would remain a great station for many years

In the heyday, my dial never moved off 102.1. I even brought a Carver TX-11 tuner in from the USA (priced almost double in Canada) to improve my reception.

The station was so good you could tolerate songs that sucked because you knew something good would be along shortly. There was just no need to change the station. And if you encountered other people listening to NY in your travels, they were automatically cool, nothing else needed to be said.

I was listening in my car the day they went to "Modern Rock" and Madonna was heard on CFNY. I was so upset I had to pull over and take a deep breath, because I knew our precious station was dead and buried. I was finished with radio that day.

Yes, there was a bit of a resurrection for a brief period when Dani Elwell was around, but nothing could bring back the excellence we once enjoyed. P&G, then J.R., the Scott show, Live Earl with Bev. What a daytime lineup! Oh, those were the days.

This from somebody who was around in the CHUM-FM days with David & Reiner, Larry Green, Pete Griffin etc.

I was a kid with a tabletop FM set my parents gave me for Christmas. I got tossed out of school, got a job in a plastic factory, worked enough weeks to qualify for pogey (that was the thing in those days, everyone was on pogey) and bought a component stereo with my earnings. Living in the basement with CHUM-FM on my Dynacos. Marsden! Oh yeah!

Thanks for posting, Fitz. And RA.

Last edited by ERP 0W (January 12, 2025 10:27 pm)

Fitz · January 13, 2025 3:15 pm

ERP 0W wrote:
Fitz wrote:
NY would remain a great station for many years
In the heyday, my dial never moved off 102.1. I even brought a Carver TX-11 tuner in from the USA (priced almost double in Canada) to improve my reception.

The station was so good you could tolerate songs that sucked because you knew something good would be along shortly. There was just no need to change the station. And if you encountered other people listening to NY in your travels, they were automatically cool, nothing else needed to be said.

I was listening in my car the day they went to "Modern Rock" and Madonna was heard on CFNY. I was so upset I had to pull over and take a deep breath, because I knew our precious station was dead and buried. I was finished with radio that day.

Yes, there was a bit of a resurrection for a brief period when Dani Elwell was around, but nothing could bring back the excellence we once enjoyed. P&G, then J.R., the Scott show, Live Earl with Bev. What a daytime lineup! Oh, those were the days.

This from somebody who was around in the CHUM-FM days with David & Reiner, Larry Green, Pete Griffin etc.

I was a kid with a tabletop FM set my parents gave me for Christmas. I got tossed out of school, got a job in a plastic factory, worked enough weeks to qualify for pogey (that was the thing in those days, everyone was on pogey) and bought a component stereo with my earnings. Living in the basement with CHUM-FM on my Dynacos. Marsden! Oh yeah!

Thanks for posting, Fitz. And RA.

Actually the Madonna period was more of a switch to almost CHR than Modern Rock. Thankfully that was short lived.I would say that the transition to Modern Rock was complete when the station became the Edge. I used to still listen in the first few years of the Edge but eventually the format became too limited. Despite the emphasis on punk/new wave, was nice to hear other forms of rock as well as the occasional foray into jazzy stuff on the Spirit but that was no more on the Edge. CFNY before it became the Edge was almost like a triple A format before triple A became a thing.

The resurrection occurred during Reiner's second tenure at the station when he became the PD. I still remember he hosted a call in show one day where he spoke about the new vision for the station and he fielded questions from listeners. Wish I had taped that but iI was in the car and listened to most of the show in a parking lot

Fitz · January 13, 2025 3:56 pm

One thing that I did tape during the second Reiner era ( at least I think it was or maybe this was what he came to save us from ) was this below that I captured on VCR. That VCR had two audio tracks. One to go with the video and a separate one. Here the video is of CKVR and the audio is Skot Turner on CFNY. The program was "The History of Rock saturday" Must have been ratings time as the tracks played and announced are quite pedestrian for the most part and some of it could be heard on Q 107.

Sound quality is shrill. Should fix that.

Last edited by Fitz (January 13, 2025 4:07 pm)

ERP 0W · January 13, 2025 7:48 pm

Actually the Madonna period was more of a switch to almost CHR

I wouldn't know, after that fateful day (was a weekend IIRC) I never listened for more than a few minutes and soon gave up entirely. It was just too painful. But they did use the phrase "Modern Rock".

Later on I occasionally caught Howard G & Fred and of course the wonderful Dani E, who remains a shining light in a dark world.

And there were a couple of months when I heard the Edge, not by choice, but that's what was played and I couldn't escape. There was that obnoxious morning guy whose name escapes me ATM, and I remember Josie Dye from that period.

I really was finished with radio that day in '87. There was The Spirit, and then there was everything else. When it died, *my* spirit died too.

It took the tragedy of Martin Streek to bring me back (sorta). I had no idea Marsden was on the air out in Durham, but I learned of it while reading about Martin, then caught DM's tribute show. A tough one for both of us.

Shortly after that Marsden's current project took flight, and I signed up without even hearing it once. Haven't regretted that decision. It was like being reborn.

A lot of people say music sucks these days, and for the most part it's true. but there's great stuff out there if you know where to find it.

Fitz · January 13, 2025 9:40 pm

ERP 0W wrote:
Actually the Madonna period was more of a switch to almost CHR
I wouldn't know, after that fateful day (was a weekend IIRC) I never listened for more than a few minutes and soon gave up entirely. It was just too painful. But they did use the phrase "Modern Rock".

Later on I occasionally caught Howard G & Fred and of course the wonderful Dani E, who remains a shining light in a dark world.

And there were a couple of months when I heard the Edge, not by choice, but that's what was played and I couldn't escape. There was that obnoxious morning guy whose name escapes me ATM, and I remember Josie Dye from that period.

I really was finished with radio that day in '87. There was The Spirit, and then there was everything else. When it died, *my* spirit died too.

It took the tragedy of Martin Streek to bring me back (sorta). I had no idea Marsden was on the air out in Durham, but I learned of it while reading about Martin, then caught DM's tribute show. A tough one for both of us.

Shortly after that Marsden's current project took flight, and I signed up without even hearing it once. Haven't regretted that decision. It was like being reborn.

A lot of people say music sucks these days, and for the most part it's true. but there's great stuff out there if you know where to find it.

I did a bit of research and you are correct about them using the term Modern Rock during the Madonna phase but the new content they added was not Modern rock. I think KROQ in LA and also WLIR and WBAB in the New York area were actually playing Modern Rock at the time. What CFNY was doing was worse then the one time in 1975 when I heard CHUM FM play Mandy by Barry Manilow. At least they recovered from that disaster enough for Rick Ringer to be able to play Howlin Wolf and Fairport Convention a few months later.

I am a dial changer and for me Sirius XM is a great option these days. Three favorite stations are Deep Tracks, Underground Garage and 60'ss Gold.

I listened in the car for about an hour today and heard The New York Dolls, Yes, Poco, World Party and The Yardbirds on Deep Tracks. Lenny Kaye, the mastermind behind the 1972 garage/psyche comp Nuggets was the DJ on Underground Garage and He played the B -side of the Knickerbockers 6th single, Otis Redding, Bowie and Him or Me by Paul Revere and The Raiders.

Last edited by Fitz (January 13, 2025 9:45 pm)

ERP 0W · January 14, 2025 3:47 am

Heh! I heard David Pritchard play Michael Jackson on CFNY. It was a Saturday morning and David was filling in for someone, can't remember who.

I loved the way he introduced the track:

"This next one is from a young man who has been making quite a name for himself south of the border... "

dmcjeff · January 14, 2025 3:02 pm

mace wrote:
Living in Oakville back then, I was a HUGE fan of Rock 102. Possessing a small average quality stereo system armed with an old pair of television rabbit ears, I never experienced any interference from CFNY.

So, what exactly did Rock 102 WBEN play? Was it rock music, AOR, hard rock, or something else?

I remember late 80's to early 90's, 102.5 became CHR/R as 'Magic 102' and I have a few recordings on tape of their jingles which were fun.

If 'Rock 102' was so popular, when and why did it end and transition to CHR as Magic 102?

dmcjeff · January 14, 2025 3:04 pm

It says here that WBEN (102.5) 'Rock 102' actually got a measurable audience in Toronto at the time. Who was measuring it? Was the local ratings at the time actually reporting on it (and does anyone have a sample of ratings from that era in Toronto that shows it in the list?

RadioActive wrote:
I came across this article about the day one of the city's most important radio stations was just about to begin - CHIC-FM was a small nothing station in Brampton operating at 857 watts. You could hear it across the street and that was about it. But in 1977, the station got a power increase and then some - to an amazing 100,000 watts, which instantly made it a contender in the Toronto market.

It also caused some interference in places with nearby WBEN-FM, which had been attracting an increasing number of local listeners.

This story is about the newcomer, although no one knew at the time how it would shake-up the radio dial in Toronto, on its way to legendary status.

RadioActive · January 14, 2025 3:14 pm

WBEN-FM began playing automated Top 40 hits on their 100,000 watt 102.5 signal in the mid-70s, attracting the attention of Toronto listeners, since Top 40 in stereo wasn't allowed on FM stations here at the time, a CRTC decision designed to protect Canadian AM stations.

And therein hangs a very interesting tale. WBEN-FM actually paid to join the BBM ratings. But then, suddenly, the board of that august organization decided to turn them down with no real explanation.

Did pressure from Canadian broadcasters who might have feared the numbers play a part in that ruling? We may never know, but the people at Rock 102 certainly felt so, as evidenced by this letter written in March 1975.

Fitz · January 14, 2025 3:44 pm

This Rock 102 Chart that I got at a record store in Scarborough in 1988 is probably indicative of a level of support for the station even at that late date. In fact on the left side of the chart you will see a list of Toronto locations that The Chart was available at:

EDIT: Just noticed that Do You Love Me by the Contours is on the chart. Must have been in a movie like Running Up The Hill's resurgance after Strangr Things. Also Rock 102 was always CHR before and after the Majic.

Last edited by Fitz (January 14, 2025 3:53 pm)

Lorne · January 14, 2025 5:08 pm

Fitz wrote:
Just noticed that Do You Love Me by the Contours is on the chart. Must have been in a movie like Running Up The Hill's resurgance after Strangr Things.

It was rereleased as a single after its inclusion in Dirty Dancing, and reached #11 on Billboard.

dmcjeff · January 15, 2025 1:17 pm

I noticed the phone number 716-644-9845 in the blue (under the smart start ad).

Was WMJQ co-owned with WKSE at the time? To this day, WKSE's line is '644-9850'

Also, I'm saddened to see the BBM 'Censorship' BS that took place at the time. Obviously it was a threat and perhaps with significant numbers.

Fitz wrote:
This Rock 102 Chart that I got at a record store in Scarborough in 1988 is probably indicative of a level of support for the station even at that late date. In fact on the left side of the chart you will see a list of Toronto locations that The Chart was available at:

EDIT: Just noticed that Do You Love Me by the Contours is on the chart. Must have been in a movie like Running Up The Hill's resurgance after Strangr Things. Also Rock 102 was always CHR before and after the Majic.

mace · January 15, 2025 1:50 pm

And that 102.5 signal. Travelling to Montreal in March 1979 to visit some high school friends I could listen to the station quite clearly in Kingston and only disappeared further east when the Ottawa Radio-Canada station on the same frequency began interfering.

Marsden · January 15, 2025 2:17 pm

This is a fun thread.

The one thing no one has mentioned are the call letters. Since the 102.1 frequency was close to the Buffalo station the Allen Brothers decided on the call sign.

CFNY - they said with a smile. The letters N and Y together often refer to New York.:-)

In the same way the letters in NYthespirit.com refer to CFNY. :-) We have never hidden that.

For those who may not have listened - my shows are very much like The Spirit Of Radio. Here's last Friday list of what I played.....

Friday January 10, 2025
Rob Stuart - A Beautiful Thing
George Rondina & Imagination Machine - Dancing On A Highwire (Rob Stuart's Highly Wired Mix)
After The Fire - Der Kommissar (7" mix)
Peter Gabriel - Road To Joy (Dark-Side Mix)
Aretha Franklin, Carole King, Celine Dion, Gloria Estefan, Mariah Carey, Shania Twain - A Natural Woman
Bryan Ferry - Knockin' On Heaven's Door
USA For Africa - We Are The World
Elton John & Alessandro Safina - Your Song
Art Of Noise feat. Duane Eddy - Peter Gunn
Mick Jagger - Sweet Thing
Aztec Camera - Walk Out To Winter (extended)
Wallflowers feat. Mick Jones - Reboot The Mission
Blancmange - Living On The Ceiling
Bruce Springsteen - Sad Eyes
Skruffy Group - Ride Captain Ride
Queen Esther Marrow - Walking In Memphis
Brian Eno/John Cale - Spinning Away
Jon & Vangelis - I Hear You Now
Bronski Beat - Smalltown BoyP4
Pink Floyd - One Slip
Crowbar - Oh What A Feeling
Shawn Phillips - Ballad Of Casey Deiss
Moody Blues - Are You Sitting Comfortably
David Bowie - Lazarus
Sufjan Stevens - Mystery Of Love
Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel - Sebastian
Beatles - She's Leaving Home
Thermodynamics - Future Noise (Tomorrowland Cut)
SLAVE To The SQUAREwave - Starrs (Ambient Vocal Mix)
Toni Childs - House Of Hope
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds feat. Kylie Minogue - Where The Wild Roses Grow
Simon & Garfunkel - The Boxer
Elton John/Passenger - Let Your Song Go (mash-up)
Dee Long - Good Night Universe

Thanks for allowing me to share...d

Last edited by Marsden (January 15, 2025 2:25 pm)

torontomike · January 15, 2025 2:22 pm

Marsden wrote:
This is a fun thread.

The one thing no one has mentioned are the call letters. Since the 102.1 frequency was close to the Buffalo station the Allen Brothers decided on the call sign.

CFNY - they said with a smile. The letters N and Y together often refer to New York.:-)

In the same way the letters in NYthespirit.com refer to CFNY. :-) We have never hidden that.

For those who may not have listened - my shows are very much like The Spirit Of Radio. Here's last Friday list of what I played.....

Friday January 10, 2025Rob Stuart - A Beautiful ThingGeorge Rondina & Imagination Machine - Dancing On A Highwire (Rob Stuart's Highly Wired Mix)After The Fire - Der Kommissar (7" mix)Peter Gabriel - Road To Joy (Dark-Side Mix)Aretha Franklin, Carole King, Celine Dion, Gloria Estefan, Mariah Carey, Shania Twain - A Natural WomanBryan Ferry - Knockin' On Heaven's DoorUSA For Africa - We Are The WorldElton John & Alessandro Safina - Your SongArt Of Noise feat. Duane Eddy - Peter GunnMick Jagger - Sweet ThingAztec Camera - Walk Out To Winter (extended)Wallflowers feat. Mick Jones - Reboot The MissionBlancmange - Living On The CeilingBruce Springsteen - Sad EyesSkruffy Group - Ride Captain RideQueen Esther Marrow - Walking In MemphisBrian Eno/John Cale - Spinning AwayJon & Vangelis - I Hear You NowBronski Beat - Smalltown BoyPink Floyd - One SlipCrowbar - Oh What A FeelingShawn Phillips - Ballad Of Casey DeissMoody Blues - Are You Sitting ComfortablyDavid Bowie - LazarusSufjan Stevens - Mystery Of LoveSteve Harley & Cockney Rebel - SebastianBeatles - She's Leaving HomeThermodynamics - Future Noise (Tomorrowland Cut)SLAVE To The SQUAREwave - Starrs (Ambient Vocal Mix)Toni Childs - House Of HopeNick Cave & The Bad Seeds feat. Kylie Minogue - Where The Wild Roses GrowSimon & Garfunkel - The BoxerElton John/Passenger - Let Your Song Go (mash-up)Dee Long - Good Night Universe
Thanks for allowing me to share...d

David, good to see you here today, as it's the 10th anniversary of your first visit to my basement studio.

https://www.torontomike.com/2015/01/toronto_miked_podcast_episode_106/

Marsden · January 15, 2025 2:27 pm

OMG and HI Mike - time sure does fly. I always enjoy our chats together. You are the originator of this thing they now call Podcasts!

Last edited by Marsden (January 15, 2025 2:30 pm)

dmcjeff · January 15, 2025 3:17 pm

I was in Grade 12 in 1991 in Barrie.

My GF who had just moved up to Barrie with her family from Brampton complained that she couldn't hear her favorite stations anymore (98.5 and Majic 102).

Determined and in teenage Love, I strived to tune them in from North end of Barrie and was successful on many nights (perhaps with the right 'DX' environment) and recorded probably ten or more 60minute tapes of each station to play in the car as if we were listening live as we drove around in my parent's Buick.

I remember thinking how cool these stations were and especially that they were on 'FM'; way more interesting than listening to AM640 or CFTR at the time. Majic 102 had fun jingles too. I remember a few in particular (which I can't find a soundbite for on youtube unfortunately) that went like this:

'Buffalo's 100,000 Watt MONSTER station'
'The station that Shakes the Lakes and Rocks the Docks .. Majic 102-5'

There was also another jingle or perhaps the top of the hour marker that always mentioned Toronto.

'Buffalo, Rochester, Toronto'.. Majic 102'

As for CFNY, plenty of my friends enjoyed it back in high school days and I enjoyed the weekend club 102 shows as I worked midnights/cleaning shift for extra money at the local Bayfield McD's

Great stations!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2VJuRwXyEo

mace wrote:
And that 102.5 signal. Travelling to Montreal in March 1979 to visit some high school friends I could listen to the station quite clearly in Kingston and only disappeared further east when the Ottawa Radio-Canada station on the same frequency began interfering.

ERP 0W · January 15, 2025 3:34 pm

Marsden wrote:
the letters in NYthespirit.com refer to CFNY. :-) We have never hidden that.

That was a decision that worked out rather well.

Fitz · January 15, 2025 6:20 pm

Just read on Wiki that Rock 102 obtained the letters WMJQ in 1987 after 92.5 in Rochester stopped using them.

92.5 from Rochester could often be received in the eastern part of the GTA . A few years ago I found a set cassette tapes that had some content from the station which was known as the New Q 92. A sort of rock leaning CHR format. Here's a bit from those tapes also includes a very short segment from WVOR in Rochester:

New Q 92

Last edited by Fitz (January 15, 2025 6:33 pm)

mace · January 15, 2025 10:46 pm

I believe at one time 92.5 in Rochester had an AOR format. 92.5 was the frequency I always monitored for tropo reception. If 92.5 was strong enough that my receiver stereo light lit up, it was going to be a good DX night. Having an outdoor Wineguard FM antenna helped too.

ERP 0W · January 16, 2025 1:09 am

dmcjeff wrote:
As for CFNY.....I enjoyed the weekend club 102 shows as I worked midnights/cleaning shift for extra money at the local Bayfield McD's

Ha ha, I remember when picking up CFNY was an iffy proposition at Woodbine & Queen in Toronto. We had a rented garage in a back lane and a transistor radio. Barrie? In those days that would require some skip, I'll wager.

As luck would have it, I ended up in Brampton the year Elvis died, and found myself in a hotbed of radio. Yep, I go back a long way with 'NY.

I also remember when that McDonalds was out in the sticks, it was one of the early ones when people actually used to seek them out. Stopped there many times. The yellow sign outside said "Thousands Served"

That's when Tim Horton had a couple of stores in Scarborough.

Fitz · January 16, 2025 7:14 am

The CFNY power increase was abut a month before Elvis passed. Before that getting the station past the airport was unlikely. I could get it on cable starting around 1976, I only ever received the station off air once when I took a portable radio in the car especially for that purpose. Car only had AM. This was the time they used to play entire album sides.

After the power increase the signal was reliable on a half decent radio up to Barrie I would think. In fact I had a summer Job very close the Woodbine and Queen and I took a portable radio/cassette player to work a few times after the power increase and from what I remember the signal was fine. I remember listening to Al Spring in the morning. A year later I remember a night shift at the same location when I listened to Marsden High and an another time when Keith Elshaw was on and he played a song I had requested by Brinsley Schwarz.

As far as Rochester my go to station was WCMF until they devolved to dull AOR although they did have a show called import/export in the early 80's that was interesting. They would play bands that were part of the neo-psychedelic movement ( or paisley underground ).In fact no station in the GTA outside of CKLN touched that stuff . Gary Storm on WUWU played it as well and I have some air checks of his playing things like The Chesterfield Kings and Acid Casualties as well as the original garage/psyche bands like the Seeds.

Last edited by Fitz (January 16, 2025 7:16 am)

ERP 0W · January 16, 2025 9:24 am

Anyone want to buy a Carver TX-11? It's been collecting dust since around 1987, but was working fine when I disconnected it. Hopefully 102.1 isn't burned in to the screen.

Rock 102? C'mon, they weren't even in the same category. Mainstream <snore>

Last edited by ERP 0W (January 16, 2025 9:25 am)

mace · January 16, 2025 9:44 am

There seems to be a definite divide here regarding musical preferences. Some here love Alternative/CFNY and the original Progressive/CHUM FM which is fine. I was never a fan of either because I grew up on top 40. When that format wasn't available on FM in Canada, due to Government regulations, I searched south of the border and found 98.5 and 102.5 offered what I wanted to hear.

ERP 0W · January 16, 2025 11:05 am

Well at least we're talking about music, which seems to be an afterthought on this board. Personally, I'd rather eat worms than listen to talk radio.

Said in good humour, OK?

I want to see radio survive as much as anyone, but it's pretty clear it's a dead medium. Marsden has always been ahead of the curve. He saw what was coming and reacted accordingly.

For music, you can't beat what he offers. Well, maybe not if you like Taylor Swift and such, but that's Rock 102 territory. Hee!

Fitz · January 16, 2025 11:36 am

I am somewhere in the middle of the top 40 AOR - alt/progressive divide. I listened to mostly CHUM/CKOC/CKFH from 67-69. I eventually grew to like the oldies stations bc of my interest in the 60's. My fave format was free form but in retrospect I have learned that sometimes the imaging etc of more commercial forms of radio from the 70's and 80's can be interesting and some AOR sounds more palatable now but I did not listen too much to it back in the day if and that is a big if some alternatives were available. There were definatley long periods that there were no alternatives to commercial radio and so in the car I was down to listening to more commercial radio.

BTW I would be interested in having a look at that Carver.

Last edited by Fitz (January 16, 2025 11:42 am)

RadioActive · January 16, 2025 11:39 am

ERP 0W wrote:
Well at least we're talking about music, which seems to be an afterthought on this board. Personally, I'd rather eat worms than listen to talk radio.

I'm glad you brought this up because it's something that doesn't get said here enough. My love affair with stations that play tunes ended a long time ago and I prefer the talkers. But I can certainly understand why not everyone does. Naturally, I tend to post stories that deal with the stations I listen to on a daily basis.

But I would love to see more discussion here about music radio. If you or anyone else has comments or critiques about what's going on with these outlets, please feel free to put them up. We don't spend enough time on them, but I can only comment on what I hear. And the music stations don't reach these ears.

Since they're generally the highest rated stations in the city, I would encourage more talk - you should pardon the expression - about them!

And by the way, with the winter here, we're fresh out of worms. But I'll get back to you in the spring!