sowny.net | The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

February 8, 2024 5:09 pm  #1


CN Tower Master FM Antenna

The first of many applications to be approved for parameter modifications resulting from the new Master FM antenna:

Broadcasting Applications Report (crtc.gc.ca)

The new antenna is being built in the aperture vacated by CBLT-TV, the now defunct Channel 5. The centre of radiation is higher, resulting in an increase in the EHHAT (effective height above average terrain) from 420.5 metres to 449.3.  Because most Class C1 stations are operating at maximum parameters for their corresponding EHAAT (40 kW for most), a reduction in ERP is required to maintain equivalence in the contours.
CHFI-FM was grandfathered at super power parameters 44 kW (because it was 210 kW when transmitting from the CFTO-TV Agincourt tower), so it must reduce ERP to 39.81 kW.  The 40 kW stations will be correspondingly lower (approximately 36 kW). 
HD transmissions will now be feasible for those stations that so wish.

 

February 8, 2024 6:10 pm  #2


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Oh wow its happening and by May 2024 the document I believe said it is to be complete and has been worked on since 2020?  This must be quite the feat.  Are they bringing equipment up thru the skypod and up the ladder? 

Last edited by markow202 (February 8, 2024 6:52 pm)

 

February 10, 2024 4:10 pm  #3


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

The CRTC approved the technical adjustments for CHFI, JAZZ FM and BOOM.  More from RadioWest and Dan Sys..https://radiowest.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12867921#p12867921

 

February 11, 2024 12:15 am  #4


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Curious, as a DXer, if this will involve any planned shutdowns while work is going on?
 

 

February 12, 2024 11:04 am  #5


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Saul wrote:

Curious, as a DXer, if this will involve any planned shutdowns while work is going on?
 

Possibly or not, as I imagine they will setup the new one and just do a switch over but then again I dont know about testing. 

 

February 22, 2024 1:59 pm  #6


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Any updates with how this is going?  I believe its going to be up and running in May 2024. 

 

February 25, 2024 3:05 pm  #7


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

An ad from 1976 touting the new capabilities of the CN Tower from The Toronto Group of FM Broadcasters:

 

February 25, 2024 7:41 pm  #8


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Back when broadcasting from the CN Tower first began, I was living up on the Bruce Peninsula. Reception from Toronto stations was irregular and unreliable. After they went up on the tower, reception from Toronto became even more challenging.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
 

February 25, 2024 8:44 pm  #9


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

It's funny how you don't remember stuff like this, but back in 1973, before the CN Tower was even a reality, CFTO wanted to get on the structure - not just to improve reception here, but to be seen in Buffalo! (Well, really the Niagara Region, but it was pretty much the same in that area.)

 

February 26, 2024 9:11 am  #10


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

RadioActive wrote:

It's funny how you don't remember stuff like this, but back in 1973, before the CN Tower was even a reality, CFTO wanted to get on the structure - not just to improve reception here, but to be seen in Buffalo! (Well, really the Niagara Region, but it was pretty much the same in that area.)

The Buffalo stations only had 37% viewership in the GTA in 1973? Perhaps over a 24 hour period. But in those wonderful pre-simsub days, primetime viewing of 2, 4 and 7 would have been well over 50%.

 

February 26, 2024 11:07 am  #11


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Not sure about 2,4,and 7 having well over 50% of the GTA in prime time.  The Canadian networks often would run the US shows before the Buffalo stations and had much of the audience first for various shows.  If you had a regular anntenna depending on where you lived in the GTA, Buffalo stations didn't always come in clear. In our case we lived in north Etobicoke and Buffalo TV was often interfered with by large vehicles like trucks and even air travel from the airport nearby.

I remember we would always watch Ed Sullivan and Bonanza on CBC because it's signal was clearer and less interference than either channel 4 or channel 2. 
 
You are right that Bassett was likely referring over the broadcast day, and CFTO and the other Canadian stations would be strong especially during the evening and late news.  

 

February 27, 2024 7:44 am  #12


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

paterson1 wrote:

Not sure about 2,4,and 7 having well over 50% of the GTA in prime time.  The Canadian networks often would run the US shows before the Buffalo stations and had much of the audience first for various shows.  If you had a regular anntenna depending on where you lived in the GTA, Buffalo stations didn't always come in clear. In our case we lived in north Etobicoke and Buffalo TV was often interfered with by large vehicles like trucks and even air travel from the airport nearby.

I remember we would always watch Ed Sullivan and Bonanza on CBC because it's signal was clearer and less interference than either channel 4 or channel 2
You are right that Bassett was likely referring over the broadcast day, and CFTO and the other Canadian stations would be strong especially during the evening and late news.  

You could be right P1. I had a cousin that lived in Willowdale. His family was under a flight path to Pearson airport. Whenever a plane flew over, which seemed to be several times per hour, the picture would flicker on the Buffalo channels. Growing up in Oakville, the only interference we received on 2, 4 and 7 was lightning from approaching thunderstorms.

 

February 27, 2024 8:18 am  #13


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

When I was a kid, we lived in a great reception location in the Bathurst and Lawrence area. I did some amazing DXing with the rotor on my parents' antenna tower. The only thing that ruined it came in Sept. 1972, the month CBLT switched from Channel 6 to 5, and the signal strength and proximity almost obliterated what was then WBEN on Channel 4. 

My father was able to find a gadget he called "a trap," which could be adjusted to minimize the interference. But Channel 4 was never quite the same after that.

 

March 21, 2024 6:02 pm  #16


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

It has been a busy year for Grundy...  The new CHCH Tower project commenced around this time last year, then they were onto Stoney Creek to start on the decommissioning of the tower there. 

And now the Master FM project...  High heights, and tight spaces!


 

 

March 21, 2024 7:52 pm  #17


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Probable quotes from the company's foremen:
"Measure twice! Then cut once! Your mother taught me that!"
"You call that a weld? I'll show you a weld!"

 

April 23, 2024 12:57 pm  #18


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

[url=https://www.linkedin.com/posts/grundy-telcom-integration-inc_nabshow-fm-activity-7184348937791713281-CcXN]Grundy Telcom Integration Inc. on LinkedIn: #nabshow #fm

Slowly getting there! [/url]

 

May 2, 2024 7:26 pm  #19


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

The CRTC has now received applications from CHUM-FM and CKFM-FM and some of the other stations. CHUM-FM will have HD. However, these two applications are sloppy - they refer to wrong station in parts of the briefs including the contour maps. Broadcasting Applications Report (crtc.gc.ca)

 

May 7, 2024 10:39 am  #20


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Hrick wrote:

The CRTC has now received applications from CHUM-FM and CKFM-FM and some of the other stations. CHUM-FM will have HD. However, these two applications are sloppy - they refer to wrong station in parts of the briefs including the contour maps. Broadcasting Applications Report (crtc.gc.ca)

Whats funny here is numerous times especially on this forum, its been mentioned that CKFM since about 2017 has been on their own antenna (since that cn tower antenna mast fire in 2017)  but in their application its basically stating they are on the old masterfm and filing for what everyone is else, to move to new antenna. 

 

May 7, 2024 11:12 am  #21


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Skywave can comment, but It is my understanding that CKFM IS on Master FM- analogue

The IBOC component radiates out of the secondary antenna.  Around 4 kw? or less?

 

May 8, 2024 7:55 am  #22


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Initially, the intent was to transmit the HD signal only from a single bay panel antenna installed at the top of the Channel 9 aperture.  It was recognized at the outset that there was the potential of interference to the host signal because of the difference in vertical antenna patterns and centres of radiation of the two antennas. This means that the desired-to-undesired ratio between the host analog signal and the digital IBOC signal varies with distance, creating concentric doughnut rings of interference extending several kilometres from the tower.  These theoretical zones of inteference in fact materialized, so the decision was made to transmit a hybrid signal at reduced ERP from the single bay antenna. The temporary authorization certificate on the ISED Spectrum Management site shows an analog ERP of 12,800 watts with each digital sideband at -16.2 dBc (307 watts).

     Thread Starter
 

May 8, 2024 8:14 am  #23


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Anyone know if any work has yet to be done that might send the transmitters off-air and/or onto auxiliary systems, and when that time frame might be? If so I would try and DX those channels...

 

May 8, 2024 10:09 am  #24


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Saul wrote:

Anyone know if any work has yet to be done that might send the transmitters off-air and/or onto auxiliary systems, and when that time frame might be? If so I would try and DX those channels...

I assume sometime soon but would probably be very short lived and I think I read the whole changeover should be done by the end of the month. That must be hell installing in that mast. 

 

May 8, 2024 2:40 pm  #25


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

markow202 wrote:

Saul wrote:

Anyone know if any work has yet to be done that might send the transmitters off-air and/or onto auxiliary systems, and when that time frame might be? If so I would try and DX those channels...

I assume sometime soon but would probably be very short lived and I think I read the whole changeover should be done by the end of the month. That must be hell installing in that mast. 

Thanks! I would expect a few hours overnight, at the very most, but even an hour or two, preplanned, is enough time to either plan a trip to the Scarborough Bluffs (or if I'm at Kawartha run recordings overnight on key channels).
 

 

May 10, 2024 5:44 pm  #26


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Hardly hear Jazz FM in Peterbough tonight and it is not full quieting in Port Hope like it normally is. Something up on the tower???

 

June 3, 2024 3:42 pm  #27


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

Wondering if the new antenna now in use?

 

June 3, 2024 3:47 pm  #28


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

markow202 wrote:

Wondering if the new antenna now in use?

I'm hearing end of this month.

 

June 3, 2024 5:01 pm  #29


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

RadioAaron wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Wondering if the new antenna now in use?

I'm hearing end of this month.

Nice! Still wondering if coverage might change or get better plus its a newer modern antenna if that even matters. 

 

June 3, 2024 9:34 pm  #30


Re: CN Tower Master FM Antenna

   The coverage in fringe areas will be nearly the same. In Downtown Toronto the higher antenna might make the signals clearer in some locations due to slightly less multipath (the same signal hitting the antenna twice). They also expect the overloading to be reduced a bit because of the lower ERP's. Years ago when CKLN was on 88.1 FM, the CN Tower signals used to take it out on some portable radios at Union Station.