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March 15, 2023 10:13 am  #1


CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

I've noted this before, but it appears it's starting to creep back into all the local newscasts on CTV Toronto. And for the life of me, I can't figure out why. 

On Tuesday's 6 PM show, they had a short live Q&A with reporter Genevieve Beauchemin in Quebec, after her story ran. Once the debrief was over, Michelle Dube thanked her and then waited. And waited. And waited. Finally, after what felt like an hour, Beauchemin said "You're welcome," and then they finally moved on to the next story.

To make matters worse, the reporter was on satellite and was receiving the audio on a delay because of it. I actually counted how long it took before she got to that 'welcome' from when the anchor offered her thanks. It was at least 5 secs. All of it dead air. 

I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but in TV time, that's an eternity. If you multiply that by other correspondents in the field who are thanked and then given time for a response, it can easily amount to over 30 secs. or more. That's time that could be devoted to either a paid spot or even another story. If you subtract commercials, most TV news hours are only about 42-45 minutes. So there's not a second to waste and certainly not on completely unnecessary fake manners. 

And that doesn't even take into account the number of times it doesn't work. Sometimes a thank you is met by a blank stare as the reporter waits to get the "you're off camera" all clear. So all you get is five-six seconds of dead silence. Other times, the audio delay results in the person saying "You're welc-" and then being cut off when it appears they're not going to say anything and the director can't wait any longer. 

I tune in and out of various local news shows during that hour, and as far as I can tell, Global and City don't indulge in this time-wasting stupidity. The correspondent throws back to the studio, the anchor thanks them and then they move on. The "welcome" is implied and not missed. It's a ridiculous waste of airtime, but the one thing that's obvious is that some producer or exec. at the station is telling people to wait for the reply because they do it every single night. It's deliberate. And it's pointless. 

They should stop it once and for all. It would make the newscast flow better and give more time for other items. And if by some one-in-a-million chance they should take my advice, you don't have to say "you're welcome." Instead, make your newscast a true "thankless" job. The viewers and the show will both benefit. 

 

March 15, 2023 10:17 am  #2


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

MSNBC has it all figured out. It's rare that any interviewee gets a chance to say "You're welcome", on air, before they're gone. It tightens up the flow and I like it. As the host is saying, "Thank you", the producer drops the interviewee's remote signal, so no waiting time.
 

 

March 15, 2023 10:33 am  #3


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

And that's the way it should be done. And I'm betting 100% of the viewers don't even notice or give it a second thought.

By the way, I got a real laugh on Wednesday morning when John Moore referred to CTV Toronto as "Sifto." That's the way veterans in many newsrooms refer to the station, pronouncing the call letters "CFTO." 

It made me wonder how many people had any clue what he was talking about, since the Toronto station hasn't, to my knowledge, referred to their call letters in over a decade. 

I once wrote the CRTC about this and after a few weeks, someone got back to me, They said there is no specific rule about how often a TV station in Canada must use their actual call letters, and that branding (like "Virgin") is perfectly acceptable as an I.D., unless they're filing something with the Commission itself. (Although I notice almost all radio stations do announce their calls at the top of the hour.) 

The rules for TV may differ and they suggested the Industry Ministry may have other regulations about this. But I've never been able to find out for sure. 

It used to be call letters were the hallmark of a local station, something no one else could lay claim to. Those days are long gone. City is about the only one in Toronto that still prominently uses theirs, and only because it's part of their branding. I wonder how many people know Global is really CIII (the three 'i's designed to stand for where they are on most cable dials) or that CBC is CBLT. The two OMNIs are CFMT and CJMT - and I admit I had to look up that last one.  

As for calling it "Sifto," I think that's just putting 'salt' in a call letters' wounds. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 10:51 am  #4


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

Dial Twister wrote:

MSNBC has it all figured out.

MSNBC is another one whose call letters no longer make any sense. When it was originally formed, the 'MS' stood for Microsoft, which had partnered with the TV network to form the channel. But even though Bill Gates' firm dropped out a long time ago, the familiar I.D. is still there. I guess changing it now might confuse people, but it no longer really stands for anything at all. 

Sort of like CP24 (which originally stood for Cable Pulse 24, an offshoot of CityPulse.)  Now that City no longer owns it and they dropped the "CityPulse" branding decades ago in any event, it's mostly meaningless. But it's so ingrained in the city, they wouldn't dare change it to something like "CTV24" now. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 11:05 am  #5


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

For Global, the CIII call change occurred in the mid 80s with the start of the transmitter expansion project across the province. Prior to this, Global's original call letters were CKGN, with the main transmitter of record being assigned to Ayr, Ontario (later it was moved to Paris, Ontario)

The CIII calls were in reference to Asper's goal to have Global be Canada's third national television network, CIII or Canada 3.


 

 

March 15, 2023 11:11 am  #6


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

RadioActive wrote:

They said there is no specific rule about how often a TV station in Canada must use their actual call letters, and that branding (like "Virgin") is perfectly acceptable as an I.D., unless they're filing something with the Commission itself. (Although I notice almost all radio stations do announce their calls at the top of the hour.) 
 

Radio is still required to do this, but it's an Industry Canada rule, not a CRTC rule.

 

March 15, 2023 11:17 am  #7


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

RadioActive wrote:

And that's the way it should be done. And I'm betting 100% of the viewers don't even notice or give it a second thought.

By the way, I got a real laugh on Wednesday morning when John Moore referred to CTV Toronto as "Sifto." That's the way veterans in many newsrooms refer to the station, pronouncing the call letters "CFTO." 

It made me wonder how many people had any clue what he was talking about, since the Toronto station hasn't, to my knowledge, referred to their call letters in over a decade. 

I once wrote the CRTC about this and after a few weeks, someone got back to me, They said there is no specific rule about how often a TV station in Canada must use their actual call letters, and that branding (like "Virgin") is perfectly acceptable as an I.D., unless they're filing something with the Commission itself. (Although I notice almost all radio stations do announce their calls at the top of the hour.) 

The rules for TV may differ and they suggested the Industry Ministry may have other regulations about this. But I've never been able to find out for sure. 

It used to be call letters were the hallmark of a local station, something no one else could lay claim to. Those days are long gone. City is about the only one in Toronto that still prominently uses theirs, and only because it's part of their branding. I wonder how many people know Global is really CIII (the three 'i's designed to stand for where they are on most cable dials) or that CBC is CBLT. The two OMNIs are CFMT and CJMT - and I admit I had to look up that last one.  

As for calling it "Sifto," I think that's just putting 'salt' in a call letters' wounds. 

Call signs for TV always appear in the PSIP label when you do a scan, or tune in/flip past the channel so I'm guessing that's how a proper station ID is being achieved nowadays.

Back on the topic, I agree that waiting for reporters to say "you're welcome" on a delayed signal is such a waste of time. However, if it's a guest (non-reporter) that's being interviewed directly by the anchor, I think it's ok to wait for them to say you're welcome.


 

 

March 15, 2023 11:23 am  #8


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

ED1 wrote:

However, if it's a guest (non-reporter) that's being interviewed directly by the anchor, I think it's ok to wait for them to say you're welcome.

I get your point, but a lot of these interview subjects aren't professional broadcasters and I'm guessing many of them are nervous enough about being on live TV. I doubt they're even thinking about saying "you're welcome" and if they do, it might not come until after another one of those awkward silences. Better just to cut away with a "thanks" and move on. I guarantee you almost none of the viewers will even notice. But I do understand why a few might find that rude. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 11:26 am  #9


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

Speaking of annoying broadcasting habits one of my beefs is people who call nto talk shows and open with asking the host "how are you?"
if the host was not well they would probably be off sick.
one Canadian show host (I forget his name) used to tell callers not to ask how he is.
If they did he would not answer, but simply say "get on with it."
I notice 1010's Jerry Agar does indulge listeners by answering "I'm well."
That's annoying too.
 

Last edited by newsguy1 (March 15, 2023 11:27 am)

 

March 15, 2023 11:34 am  #10


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

newsguy1 wrote:

Speaking of annoying broadcasting habits one of my beefs is people who call nto talk shows and open with asking the host "how are you?"
if the host was not well they would probably be off sick.
one Canadian show host (I forget his name) used to tell callers not to ask how he is.
If they did he would not answer, but simply say "get on with it."
I notice 1010's Jerry Agar does indulge listeners by answering "I'm well."
That's annoying too.
 

Yeah, but at least Agar doesn't engage them further, by asking "how are you" back. He knows it's not only a waste of air time but a waste of his time to try and get people to stop saying it. (My other pet peeve is "As I told your screener," a conversation no one in the audience heard or cares about.)

For all his faults, the late Rush Limbaugh offered perhaps the best solution to this endless problem. The very first caller on his show every day was allowed to ask "how are you?" Everyone else who followed would then say "ditto," allowing them to consciously avoid the meaningless question. It definitely tightened up the show and ended fighting a battle he was going to lose anyway. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 11:37 am  #11


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

newsguy1 wrote:

Speaking of annoying broadcasting habits one of my beefs is people who call nto talk shows and open with asking the host "how are you?"
if the host was not well they would probably be off sick.
one Canadian show host (I forget his name) used to tell callers not to ask how he is.
If they did he would not answer, but simply say "get on with it."
I notice 1010's Jerry Agar does indulge listeners by answering "I'm well."
That's annoying too.
 

#1 issue in talk... and I can tell you no matter how many times you tell the listener to please don't ask how the host is during the screening process... most still do.

Best response a host I've heard use for listeners who ask is "I don't know... let me check."  Then immediately jump to the active question at hand.   It really helped drop these types of listener starting points and cut the amount of unfocused calls.   

 

March 15, 2023 11:40 am  #12


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

ED1 wrote:

I agree that waiting for reporters to say "you're welcome" on a delayed signal is such a waste of time. 

Coincidentally, there was a hilarious moment on Sunday's "Family Guy" where TV news anchor Tom Tucker threw to his reporter in the field. And yes, it played out exactly like what we've been discussing here.




     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 12:29 pm  #13


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

newsguy1 wrote:

...one Canadian show host (I forget his name) used to tell callers not to ask how he is.
If they did he would not answer, but simply say "get on with it."...

John Michael - CKTB and CJRN

 

 

March 15, 2023 12:55 pm  #14


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

I think you're right. As I recall, John Michael also purloined the Limbaugh bit referred to above, and would have his callers say "ditto." But he did give Limbaugh credit on every show for the idea.

     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 12:56 pm  #15


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

RadioActive wrote:

newsguy1 wrote:

Speaking of annoying broadcasting habits one of my beefs is people who call nto talk shows and open with asking the host "how are you?"
if the host was not well they would probably be off sick.
one Canadian show host (I forget his name) used to tell callers not to ask how he is.
If they did he would not answer, but simply say "get on with it."
I notice 1010's Jerry Agar does indulge listeners by answering "I'm well."
That's annoying too.
 

Yeah, but at least Agar doesn't engage them further, by asking "how are you" back. He knows it's not only a waste of air time but a waste of his time to try and get people to stop saying it. (My other pet peeve is "As I told your screener," a conversation no one in the audience heard or cares about.)

For all his faults, the late Rush Limbaugh offered perhaps the best solution to this endless problem. The very first caller on his show every day was allowed to ask "how are you?" Everyone else who followed would then say "ditto," allowing them to consciously avoid the meaningless question. It definitely tightened up the show and ended fighting a battle he was going to lose anyway. 

And if you were having an absolutely fantastic fine day, it was "Mega Dittos Rush"

 

March 15, 2023 3:08 pm  #16


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

 I always thought CIII was a reference to their most common cable position on the dial channel 3.

 

March 15, 2023 3:54 pm  #17


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

WGN Morning News in Chicago addressed this issue a few years ago…

https://youtu.be/zdN1sNXhl7M

 

March 15, 2023 4:43 pm  #18


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

Amusing, but they kind of missed the point. The problem isn't the "thank you's," which are fine. It's the endless waiting for the inevitable "you're welcome" that's the issue. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 15, 2023 8:37 pm  #19


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

LOSat wrote:

 I always thought CIII was a reference to their most common cable position on the dial channel 3.

I believe it stood for both that and their status as the “third” English network.

I’ll note that these call letters were established in early 1984, at the time of their 10th anniversary. The Asper family didn’t own the station yet at that point. The call letters were actually promoted on-air at one point; there’s a couple videos from Retrontario where “CIII” or “C-3” is read aloud on an ID, or “C-III” is shown alongside the Global logo. It was fairly short-lived.

 

March 15, 2023 8:57 pm  #20


Re: CTV Toronto News Should Be A "Thankless" Job

mace wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

newsguy1 wrote:

Speaking of annoying broadcasting habits one of my beefs is people who call nto talk shows and open with asking the host "how are you?"
if the host was not well they would probably be off sick.
one Canadian show host (I forget his name) used to tell callers not to ask how he is.
If they did he would not answer, but simply say "get on with it."
I notice 1010's Jerry Agar does indulge listeners by answering "I'm well."
That's annoying too.
 

Yeah, but at least Agar doesn't engage them further, by asking "how are you" back. He knows it's not only a waste of air time but a waste of his time to try and get people to stop saying it. (My other pet peeve is "As I told your screener," a conversation no one in the audience heard or cares about.)

For all his faults, the late Rush Limbaugh offered perhaps the best solution to this endless problem. The very first caller on his show every day was allowed to ask "how are you?" Everyone else who followed would then say "ditto," allowing them to consciously avoid the meaningless question. It definitely tightened up the show and ended fighting a battle he was going to lose anyway. 

And if you were having an absolutely fantastic fine day, it was "Mega Dittos Rush"

Lowell Green at CFRA Ottawa used to answer that question with a machine gun sfx and then hang up on them.

Different times.