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August 26, 2022 10:16 pm  #1


Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

Very interesting article from the Globe and Mail about Canadian TV's slow and secretive release of TV ratings.  Currently television ratings for public consumption come out a week after the fact and soon even that won't be happening.  I have also felt that the radio ratings are secretive as well and really aren't provided for public consumption either.  Numeris is run by the members who subscribe and these are mostly ad agencies, broadcast outlets and networks.  
 
Numeris recently announced that they won't be making the top 30 weekly TV ratings available to the public in a couple of weeks.  Also what is interesting after the Globe story is the generally negative comments about the article.  Almost as if they were written by someone with a vested interested or from the industry.  If there is little interest in media, odd how the Laflamme affair is still the most read on both the Globe and CBC websites. 

Here is the opinion piece from the Globe and Mail, it's worth the read. ..https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/article-lisa-laflammes-dismissal-highlights-canadian-tvs-secretive-nature/

 

August 27, 2022 5:22 pm  #2


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

paterson1 wrote:

Very interesting article from the Globe and Mail about Canadian TV's slow and secretive release of TV ratings.  Currently television ratings for public consumption come out a week after the fact and soon even that won't be happening.  I have also felt that the radio ratings are secretive as well and really aren't provided for public consumption either.  Numeris is run by the members who subscribe and these are mostly ad agencies, broadcast outlets and networks.  
 
Numeris recently announced that they won't be making the top 30 weekly TV ratings available to the public in a couple of weeks.  Also what is interesting after the Globe story is the generally negative comments about the article.  Almost as if they were written by someone with a vested interested or from the industry.  If there is little interest in media, odd how the Laflamme affair is still the most read on both the Globe and CBC websites. 

Here is the opinion piece from the Globe and Mail, it's worth the read. ..https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/article-lisa-laflammes-dismissal-highlights-canadian-tvs-secretive-nature/

Alternate link:

https://clearthis.page/?u=https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/article-lisa-laflammes-dismissal-highlights-canadian-tvs-secretive-nature/
 

 

August 28, 2022 2:23 pm  #3


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

Giving your product away for free is bad for business


 
 

August 28, 2022 6:55 pm  #4


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

RadioAaron wrote:

Giving your product away for free is bad for business

And the public not knowing about your product makes you and your product irrelevant. This is really strange since Numeris counts on the public to take part in their ratings surveys. Really bad for business when people don't want to take part anymore or don't know anything about your services. 

Interesting how the article mentions that the ratings are an important part of marketing for networks and stations in other countries. The ratings create excitement and buzz about programming.  But in Canada broadcasters for some reason don't follow that model.  Why the focus on controlling information so much?   Love the way that media types try to give the impression that it doesn't matter, and the public wouldn't care.   And why would Numeris purge the historical data the same time that they are dropping the weekly top 30 for public consumption?   

     Thread Starter
 

August 28, 2022 8:07 pm  #5


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

It's not just primetime. Try finding the ratings for local newscasts in Toronto. It's almost impossible.

Who leads? CTV always claims they're #1. But if no one knows who actually wins the 6-7 PM timeslot on a daily basis, who's to say that's accurate?

 

August 28, 2022 8:57 pm  #6


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

I remember when CFTO would take out full page spot colour ads in the Saturday Toronto Star with the BBM numbers for their evening and late night newscasts.  Not only would they list their ratings (which were always number one) but also the other Toronto stations, Hamilton, Barrie and Buffalo.  They did this for a number of years. The Star and Sun also used to list  the top 10 or 20 shows in Canada every weekend, but this was dropped maybe 20 years ago.  

This change with Numeris is disturbing, and kudos to the Globe and Mail article bringing this point out and the difficulty in finding ratings info. along with the historical data that is no longer available.  This micro-managing thing of the ratings is a little cute by a half... https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/whistling.png

     Thread Starter
 

August 28, 2022 9:26 pm  #7


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

Maybe they just don't want viewers to know how OTA stations are doing the limbo. You remember the song The Limbo, which contained the famous phrase, "How low can you go?"

Perhaps when it comes to the numbers they'd prefer we never find that out!

 

August 29, 2022 6:34 pm  #8


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

paterson1 wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

Giving your product away for free is bad for business

And the public not knowing about your product makes you and your product irrelevant. This is really strange since Numeris counts on the public to take part in their ratings surveys. Really bad for business when people don't want to take part anymore or don't know anything about your services. 

Interesting how the article mentions that the ratings are an important part of marketing for networks and stations in other countries. The ratings create excitement and buzz about programming.  But in Canada broadcasters for some reason don't follow that model.  Why the focus on controlling information so much?   Love the way that media types try to give the impression that it doesn't matter, and the public wouldn't care.   And why would Numeris purge the historical data the same time that they are dropping the weekly top 30 for public consumption?   

Networks and stations are still free to use ratings data for marketing purposes. Problem is, past instances of this have been quite hyperbolic thus making such messages meaningless.

The public, in general, does not care.

I don't know how the business model for ratings in Europe work, but here selling that data pays for the system. Give it away and you cut off revenue. That's why.


 
 

August 29, 2022 8:32 pm  #9


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

Giving your product away for free is bad for business

And the public not knowing about your product makes you and your product irrelevant. This is really strange since Numeris counts on the public to take part in their ratings surveys. Really bad for business when people don't want to take part anymore or don't know anything about your services. 

Interesting how the article mentions that the ratings are an important part of marketing for networks and stations in other countries. The ratings create excitement and buzz about programming.  But in Canada broadcasters for some reason don't follow that model.  Why the focus on controlling information so much?   Love the way that media types try to give the impression that it doesn't matter, and the public wouldn't care.   And why would Numeris purge the historical data the same time that they are dropping the weekly top 30 for public consumption?   

Networks and stations are still free to use ratings data for marketing purposes. Problem is, past instances of this have been quite hyperbolic thus making such messages meaningless.

The public, in general, does not care.

I don't know how the business model for ratings in Europe work, but here selling that data pays for the system. Give it away and you cut off revenue. That's why.

Networks and stations here may be free to use the ratings for marketing purposes but they rarely do.  If your newscast is the most watched, or highest rated and you promote this, how is that hyperbolic?  Why would that be meaningless?  The public doesn't care??   Says who?  Why does the public seem to care in other countries?

Something isn't right about the assessment saying the public doesn't care... unless that is what the eventual goal is.  The industry seems to want to engage with listeners and viewers less and less.  This is clearly evident with radio.

Other than ratings, radio and TV stations often seem to act like the listener and viewer isn't that important, and have let their service to the public slide badly.  The answer is often that it wouldn't make any difference.  This is an easy excuse and makes it  easier to justify poor service and letting people go and of course doing less. 
 
The Globe's take on this is correct, broadcasters, agencies, consultants and media owners are too hung up about controlling the information, and attempting to manage the story by doling out less and less.  In doing so makes for weak, boring promotion and marketing, and by extension a poor effort with what little local programming is still produced.  

I am sure the next step will be to go crying to the CRTC for some relief...because God knows they tried! https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/cwy.png

     Thread Starter
 

August 29, 2022 8:48 pm  #10


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

You're not addressing the main point, which is that making more information public effectively defunds the system.

And I know people don't care, because I've spend a significant amount of my career talking to listeners. Beyond a passing interest in methodology, they don't care.

Most people assume a brand's popularity on two factors: what their friends like and what they see advertised.


 
 

August 29, 2022 8:54 pm  #11


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

paterson1 wrote:

Networks and stations here may be free to use the ratings for marketing purposes but they rarely do.  If your newscast is the most watched, or highest rated and you promote this, how is that hyperbolic?  Why would that be meaningless?  The public doesn't care??   Says who?  Why does the public seem to care in other countries?

Because quantitative boasting has become meaningless. Every CHR station is "The #1 Hit Music Station" The public doesn't believe any of it. Just about every business has some internal metric to measure success, but it's rarely used in marketing because it doesn't work.


 
 

August 29, 2022 9:17 pm  #12


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

RadioAaron wrote:

     quantitative boasting has become meaningless. Every CHR station is "The #1 Hit Music Station" The public doesn't believe any of it   

BINGO

 

August 29, 2022 10:54 pm  #13


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

I'm not addressing the main point- Numeris releasing scant information like the weekly top 30, eight days after the fact is not going to put them out of business. Broadcasters using rating information for marketing or creating interest in a show would hurt Numeris how?  Is CTV/Bell going to pull their membership because Global starts using valid data in promotion or advertising? Or make the information available to the print media? CTV, CBC, City are free to do the same,  so I don't see how this ruins Numeris business. If anything it should make it stronger. 

Every CHR station saying they are "The #1 Hit Music Station"- This has nothing to do with the ratings, and is just an overused meaningless slogan which isn't true.  So naturally the public doesn't believe it.  However this doesn't mean people don't care or not interested in real ratings information.

Just about every business has an internal metric to measure success and isn't used in marketing because it doesn't work- It doesn't work because it is an internal metric that doesn't mean anything to the average listener or viewer.

So you have spent all this time talking to listeners and they tell you they don't care about the popularity of their favourite station or morning show, but are more interested in how the data is collected?  Guess these are the same listeners that change stations the moment they hear commercials or flip the dial as soon as a song they don't recognize comes on?  Not really the type of listener advertisers and likely many stations really want. 
 

     Thread Starter
 

August 29, 2022 11:44 pm  #14


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

Ms. C. wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

     quantitative boasting has become meaningless. Every CHR station is "The #1 Hit Music Station" The public doesn't believe any of it   

BINGO

I once asked a CHR programmer about that phrase and he said, "It's absolutely true because we play number one hit music."  When I pointed out that he also played number two through number 40 hit music, so he should also say, "The number 39 hit music station," he admitted the phrase was complete bullshit.

 

August 30, 2022 4:41 pm  #15


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

RadioAaron wrote:

You're not addressing the main point, which is that making more information public effectively defunds the system.

And I know people don't care, because I've spend a significant amount of my career talking to listeners. Beyond a passing interest in methodology, they don't care.

Most people assume a brand's popularity on two factors: what their friends like and what they see advertised.

Actually the main point would be what the Globe and Mail article mentioned and the headline of this post- Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??  Releasing the Top 30 ratings every week for public consumption does not defund the system. Still don't buy your narrative that the public doesn't care. It really is about control is it not? 

Last edited by paterson1 (August 30, 2022 4:45 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

September 7, 2022 10:59 am  #16


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

This will be the final week of the "public" top 30 TV ratings from Numeris.  Numbers should be coming out later today or tomorrow.  These ratings will be from August 22-28/2022.  TV commentator Bill Brioux has been giving good analysis of the weekly ratings on brioux.tv.   Hopefully Bill will see fit to continue this.  The weekly top 30 television ratings will be replaced by the Netflix top 10 shows streamed in Canada.  

     Thread Starter
 

September 7, 2022 11:32 am  #17


Re: Why Are TV Ratings In Canada So Secret??

I would think Bell, Corus and Rogers subscribe to the Numeris service. Perhaps Bill has some connections with these media giants.