The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Something's up at Flow

RadioAaron · February 9, 2022 8:43 pm

I think the station will be a little too "cool" and maybe incorporate too much alt-lite music to do the Christmas thing. I don't see it being in head-to-head competition with any one station, but rather a little bit from everyone.

Bristol · February 9, 2022 8:48 pm

Should be an interesting mix. G98 has a specialty license requiring 50% of the music from Subcategory 33 - CRTC 2021-275
[size=75][size=100]The Commission notes that the condition of licence currently imposed on CKFG-FM, which requires it to ensure that at least 50% of the musical selections that it broadcasts in each broadcast week are drawn from content subcategory 33 (World beat and international), still allows for the remaining 50% of the musical selections that it broadcasts to be drawn from other categories, such as content category 2 (Popular Music), which includes hip hop and R&B. Moreover, this condition of licence was proposed by Intercity as part of its original application to operate the station, and it was taken into consideration by the Commission in Broadcasting Decision 2011-369 when it assessed whether the station proposed by Intercity would benefit the Caribbean and African communities of Toronto. In addition, the applicant accepts to abide by this condition of licence. Accordingly, the Commission considers that CKFG-FM’s current condition of licence relating to the broadcast of musical selections drawn from content subcategory 33 remains appropriate.[/size][/size]

Last edited by Bristol (February 9, 2022 8:51 pm)

paterson1 · February 9, 2022 9:15 pm

Radio Insight has picked up on the changes...https://radioinsight.com/headlines/219689/double-flip-coming-in-toronto-as-flow-93-5-moves-to-98-7/#:~:text=A%20major%20move%20is%20taking,CKFG%20with%20%E2%80%9CFlow%2098.7%E2%80%9C.

Sunny · February 9, 2022 9:45 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
A gold-based variety pop/rock format that demographically fits nicely just under Boom.

A 90s, 00s, and 10s format to complement their 70s, 80s, 90s one? Didn't they try that during the later stages of MOVE when they started introducing more Pop/Rock titles to the playlist?

Sunny · February 9, 2022 9:50 pm

Sunny wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
A gold-based variety pop/rock format that demographically fits nicely just under Boom.
A 90s, 00s, and 10s format to complement their 70s, 80s, 90s one? Didn't they try that during the later stages of MOVE when they started introducing more Pop/Rock titles to the playlist?

I had forgotten that MOVE was still a NewCap property back then.

paterson1 · February 9, 2022 11:06 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
A gold-based variety pop/rock format that demographically fits nicely just under Boom.
Yes, similar to Evanov's LITE FM. Isn't that more or less what Breeze stations in Canada are?
By "under Boom" I mean younger than Boom. Boom for millennials.

Actually that might work. A younger version of Boom is interesting.

RadioAaron · February 9, 2022 11:24 pm

Sunny wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
A gold-based variety pop/rock format that demographically fits nicely just under Boom.
A 90s, 00s, and 10s format to complement their 70s, 80s, 90s one? Didn't they try that during the later stages of MOVE when they started introducing more Pop/Rock titles to the playlist?

It was the initial format of MOVE, yes. There wasn't any rock/alt though. Largely called "Rhythmic AC" at the time.

RadioAaron · February 9, 2022 11:30 pm

paterson1 wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
paterson1 wrote:

Yes, similar to Evanov's LITE FM. Isn't that more or less what Breeze stations in Canada are?
By "under Boom" I mean younger than Boom. Boom for millennials.
Actually that might work. A younger version of Boom is interesting.

And who better to do it than the crew who've set the gold standard for classic hits.

dsgraham · February 10, 2022 12:01 am

My guess would be that Stingray will go for the "Station to relax after a stressful day, The Breeze" branding and soothing music mix on Valentines Day in Toronto.

Sunny · February 10, 2022 12:05 am

RadioAaron wrote:
Sunny wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
A gold-based variety pop/rock format that demographically fits nicely just under Boom.
A 90s, 00s, and 10s format to complement their 70s, 80s, 90s one? Didn't they try that during the later stages of MOVE when they started introducing more Pop/Rock titles to the playlist?
It was the initial format of MOVE, yes. There wasn't any rock/alt though. Largely called "Rhythmic AC" at the time.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Rhythmic AC format. But I do seem to remember a smattering of pop/rock titles being added later... Roxette comes to mind.

iHeart in the US tried what you're suggesting with GenX Radio, but it didn't go anywhere. Modern AC had more legs years earlier, but ultimately didn't last either. I do like the idea, though. Perhaps a more focussed version of GenX, without the Hip-Hop and Alternative extremes.

Radiowiz · February 10, 2022 12:36 am

Buffalo NY still has a throwback station. Vibe 98.9.
I believe it's working for them there, but they also don't have to worry about 35-40% Can Con.

Scorpio42 · February 10, 2022 2:43 am

RadioAaron wrote:
Neither country nor Soft AC make sense.

Country is in a down-cycle and it's just the wrong signal for it.

The Breeze only works when the market doesn't have a successful heritage AC. On top of that, it would take tuning from Boom. They're not going to let anything touch Boom.

I was guessing The Breeze ac and country formats as well. How about an alternative rock station like "Live 88.5" in Ottawa? 🤔 or 50's, 60's, and 70's real oldies station hmmm Boom covers the 70's or even a classic CHR/Top 40 dance format? That would be cool but can't think of any other formats that may work in the Toronto market with the existing radio stations!

Last edited by Scorpio42 (February 10, 2022 2:43 am)

Scorpio42 · February 10, 2022 3:00 am

I remember hearing about the CBC Radio One transmitter CBCP-FM in Peterborough, Ontario that changed frequencies from 93.5 MHz to 98.7 MHz in the 1990's leaving 93.5 empty in Peterborough and a vacant frequency for Toronto which is now occupied by CFXJ-FM.

CBC Radio One frequency change in Peterborough:
[url=http://Decision CRTC 98-516]https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/1998/DB98-516.HTM[/url]

Last edited by Scorpio42 (February 10, 2022 3:02 am)

Radiowiz · February 10, 2022 3:30 am

RadioAaron wrote:
Neither country nor Soft AC make sense.

Country is in a down-cycle and it's just the wrong signal for it.

The Breeze only works when the market doesn't have a successful heritage AC. On top of that, it would take tuning from Boom. They're not going to let anything touch Boom.

Breeze will not take listeners from Boom. One station to relax (or be lite at work) and one to party. (or be heavier if that's your preference at work)
If anything, it takes listeners away from CHFI...hopefully from a quieter perspective.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens on Monday...It's hard to argue with Radio Aaron's input here that a younger Boom will work, but I still see room for Country or even more so, a nice light Breeze FM.

radiokid · February 10, 2022 10:45 am

I would be really shocked if they even tried country. It does not perform in the CMA well, never has... and not sure if you noticed... Toronto is not exactly the white guy/gal country town. The suburbs perhaps, but with CFXJ's 1100 watts, it's the wrong signal for that. I also say that about adding any rock leaning station. Those stations do well in the Caucasian community, but fall apart outside that. I also don't see them doing some Classic hits for younger people as Move tried that under one/many of it's attempts. It's doubtful they will try again so soon. Stingray I'm sure has done some market research and is looking at what hole they can fill. Good luck to them... The market is very over saturated in some formats, and I would argue it's more about turning financials around at this point than perhaps ratings.

From what I can see/hear, the owners of G bought the Flow brand, but not any staff or anything outside of that. They will be very limited to the license they have on 98.7. I'm not sure screaming "Toronto's Hip Hop and R&B", when they have to play so much outside of that to hit a license requirement, is being honest to the listeners, but Flow does have a stronger brand that G ever has. It could help them get listeners to try them out and perhaps stay. CFXJ although people keep saying it, has NEVER had any license requirement for music outside a 35% Cancon requirement. They are a regular commercial license. 987 is not. They have to play some required forms of music that fall outside of hip hop and r&b.

RadioActive · February 10, 2022 10:56 am

I'm not suggesting any of these will be what you hear on Monday, (in fact I'd be stunned if they picked any of them) but is there a list of formats that simply don't really exist in Toronto proper, that could at least make whatever they do original?

Here's a short list I could think of:

-Country,
-All Business,
-All Traffic (which has been done in Vancouver),
-Oldies on FM (740 has a very weak repeater, is in downtown Toronto for the most part and has too many other talk and specialty shows to be called a fulltime oldies outlet, in my humble opinion),
-Gospel,
-Urban Oldies,
-Easy Listening,
-Alternative (AAA),
-Smooth Jazz.

Here's a list of formats recognized by Nielson in the U.S. Again, I doubt very much these will end up on 93.5, but you can only wonder what they think will carve a niche here. We'll find out soon enough, unless word leaks out earlier.

markow202 · February 10, 2022 11:17 am

I have some weird feeling its going to go the route of "the standard norm" which is Adult AC/top 40 and its going to be boring too. It would be typical Toronto just like how they pop up condos everywhere, because what else could you possibly do.

Breeze AC elevator will definitely not work as much as it would be cool. Lets see on Monday!

Paul Jeffries · February 10, 2022 11:56 am

I'm not sure how well a "boom for the younger generation" would work. It would seem that if you're chasing that demo (mostly '90s-'00s kids), you're going after an age group that was slowing starting to wean themselves off of radio, and that could be a challenge. Even Bounce radio recognizes this; though they promote themselves as "'80s, '90s and '00s", they're still mostly '70s, '80s and '90s (and even not particularly '90s-heavy).

My guess too, is that they're probably not going to go with a "blockbuster" format, given the station's less-than-blockbuster signal, but rather a low-maintenance format that doesn't take up too much resources or cost too much.

Stingray has already shown great success with classic hits in the Toronto market, so The Breeze seems like a no-brainer, given that it's mostly classic hits-based with a few more-recent favourites thrown in. Sure, there's some overlap with the boom format, but not enough to chip away at their share, I don't think. At the very least, it would be listeners that were probably planning on migrating anyway, so why not keep it all in the family if you can?

PJ

Fitz · February 10, 2022 12:32 pm

Just had a look at the Stingray owned Edmonton Breeze's playlist for the last hour. First to me anyway it does not seem too "breezy" and second at least half the songs are played on Boom.

The other thing is that I did not see any markets where Stingray has both a Boom and Breeze. Granted that there are not too many markets where they have more than two stations.

RadioActive · February 10, 2022 12:36 pm

Here's a list of all the stations owned by Stingray in Canada, if that provides any clue as to what they might try to do here. (Scroll down the page to see them listed by province.)

Stingray Radio Stations

paterson1 · February 10, 2022 1:06 pm

Radiowiz wrote:
Buffalo NY still has a throwback station. Vibe 98.9.
I believe it's working for them there, but they also don't have to worry about 35-40% Can Con.

35-40% Cancon might actually help them. Vibe 98.9/1120 AM has under a 1% share. Last book they had a .0.8 rating. They are just coming up to their first year with the throwback format, and so far it is not working. Besides FLOW went the throwback route years ago. That was part their problem they kept changing and tweaking the music.

RadioAaron · February 10, 2022 7:38 pm

Sunny wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Sunny wrote:

A 90s, 00s, and 10s format to complement their 70s, 80s, 90s one? Didn't they try that during the later stages of MOVE when they started introducing more Pop/Rock titles to the playlist?
It was the initial format of MOVE, yes. There wasn't any rock/alt though. Largely called "Rhythmic AC" at the time.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Rhythmic AC format. But I do seem to remember a smattering of pop/rock titles being added later... Roxette comes to mind.

iHeart in the US tried what you're suggesting with GenX Radio, but it didn't go anywhere. Modern AC had more legs years earlier, but ultimately didn't last either. I do like the idea, though. Perhaps a more focussed version of GenX, without the Hip-Hop and Alternative extremes.

Yes. Though GenX in this case would be a misnomer. This will be millennial-focused.

brian451 · February 10, 2022 11:12 pm

I heard a rumor that it is going to be a hot station. There was a host from Montreal that has recently moved to Toronto for a new job and that host has experience in the format. Was not confirmed 93.5 is the new gig.
It would make sense though, to take a strong brand in Ottawa and try to see if they can make it work in Toronto. Take a run at Kiss and Virgin. Be better than the Breeze that takes listeners from Boom possibly, and Country may not work in the city. It does good in Durham and Hamilton.
Although I would not be opposed to seeing a K-Rock format or something in Toronto that competes with Q and Edge.

Hrick · February 10, 2022 11:27 pm

Hot935.com was recently registered…

RadioActive · February 10, 2022 11:33 pm

There is a Hot 93.5 FM in Sudbury and yes, it's owned by Stingray. Coincidence or a sign of things to come on Monday?

https://www.hot935.ca/

cash · February 10, 2022 11:52 pm

I predict baroque classical all the way.

Adrian106072 · February 11, 2022 12:24 am

I bet Hot 93.5 might retain some of the hip hop music and add some other type of CHR music, if they are really going for that direction. That's the only way to continue keeping the younger audience, as the market's already over saturated with Kiss, Virgin and Z. No one would like to listen to a fourth station playing the same song over and over, even though that's what corporate radio exactly do these days.

Scorpio42 · February 11, 2022 1:19 am

RadioActive wrote:
There is a Hot 93.5 FM in Sudbury and yes, it's owned by Stingray. Coincidence or a sign of things to come on Monday?

https://www.hot935.ca/

I looked at Sudbury's Hot 93.5 recently played song list and it's more like a throwback station with music from the 1990's, 2000's and 10's with with some newer songs thrown in!

https://www.hot935.ca/recently-played/

Doesn't sound like a real CHR/Top 40 station as much like it did before I moved out of Sudbury in 2015!

Dale Patterson · February 11, 2022 8:05 am

I'd suggest 24/7 Gregorian chants, but Can-Con might be a problem.

mace · February 11, 2022 10:16 am

I find it interesting that there are now two pages of discussion of a format change involving a radio station that most GTA residents don't listen to and possibly have never heard of. I understand the interest here because the majority of the comments are from people currently employed in the radio industry, retired from the radio industry or are just radio geeks like me. The only radio format changes that the general public was cognizant of were CHUM in 1986, and CFTR in 1993. Possibly the end of Country on CFGM and CISS as well. Not a criticism, simply a personal observation.