Their sound quality has been like this for quite some time. I'm not sure why they do it (does their audience want a sound with virtually no bass?), but I agree. I wish it were better. 

I notice especially during Mike Cooper's Classics on Saturday night where more rock tracks are played, and in regular rotation with songs like Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol (brutal on the ears via CHFI).

I think most program directors are hung up on the idea that if you make your sound louder, the signal will go farther. That is somewhat true with AM, in that the peak envelope power of the signal increases with higher modulation. But with FM, the transmitter output power is constant. And the signal-to-noise ratio is perceived to be constant until you get to the fringe of the coverage area. As a case in point, if you are in downtown Toronto, can you tell that CFZM-FM 96.7 is running 82 watts and CHFI is running 44,000?

There are a myriad of factors affecting the perception of sound. When people are setting up audio processors, they are using amplifiers and speakers which are probably totally different than the average listening environment, either in a home or a car. Another factor is the sound pressure level delivered to the human ear.  The relative perception of bass versus mid-range versus high frequencies changes with sound pressure level (the Fletcher-Munson curves). As a consequence, what sounds like a good balance between high and low frequencies at one listening level does not sound good at another.

All this to say, the obsession with having the audio level meter pegged at 100% is sheer stupidity, and fatiguing for long duration listening.  The audio processing on CFTR and CJCL is particularly brutal. Just listen to the constantly popping p's and t's.

A few months ago someone commented on how good CKFM used to sound in its early days.  The reason is very simple. There was no processing of the mic signal. The studio had a CBS Audimax which was a gentle automatic gain control which kept the average audio level in a given range.  The transmitter had a CBS Volumax, which was a single-band peak limiter. The input level was adjusted so that the limiting meter was just into the first 25 or 30% of the green zone, and never into the red.  The output level was then adjusted for occasional flashes of 100% on the modulation monitor peak indicator.  That's why it sounded so good. If you overdrive the input, the FM pre-emphasis curve will force the limiter to clamp down, and the high frequencies disapper.
Today's limiters have seven band processing, and with each band tweaked for different compression, the whole chain becomes non-linear and you get horrible intermodulation distortion.  Classical 96.3 has a processor using a Classical/Jazz present, which is only three-band processing, and quite gentle.

Back in the late 60s, I toured the RCA Victor recording studios in Montreal.  A very impressive setup, in the early days of multi-track recording.  I looked at the top of the audio console, and asked the technician "what's with the Nipper radio". He said "at home, you listen on a four inch speaker, so that's what I mix down to".  Admittedly the average speaker setup in a home or car is vastly better, but the point is that the artists and mixdown specialists spend hours in creating a specific tonal balance, and the people tweaking the broadcast transmitter processors are screwing it all up.

In the words of a famous (and deceased) organist, less is more.
 

Nowadays, it seems like a lot of FM stations are going for that trebly, "in-your-face" AM-type of sound. Rather ironic, considering that FM was credited with the downfall of AM when it started stealing listeners away in the late 70s/early 80s, supposedly with its better fidelity.



PJ

Speaking of signal, CHFI has the worst coverage it seems when I travel lets say north vs the other CN stations despite on average having the additional 4,000 watts extra doesnt seem to matter.  CHUM and CJRT being the best.

Sound quality wise, CHUM, Virgin and BOOM have the best sound quality output.

One thing I noticed with Classical 96.3 and its been like this since the beggining in ANY car ive had.  Once you start moving around especially anywhere in the GTA there is so much "snip snip" sounding static its extremely annoying and unlistenable especially given its format which is mostly, given classical having lots of dead zones of quiet.  

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Speaking of signal, CHFI has the worst coverage it seems when I travel lets say north vs the other CN stations despite on average having the additional 4,000 watts extra doesnt seem to matter.  CHUM and CJRT being the best.

Sound quality wise, CHUM, Virgin and BOOM have the best sound quality output.

One thing I noticed with Classical 96.3 and its been like this since the beggining in ANY car ive had.  Once you start moving around especially anywhere in the GTA there is so much "snip snip" sounding static its extremely annoying and unlistenable especially given its format which is mostly, given classical having lots of dead zones of quiet.  

The aggressive processing of CHFI is giving you the illusion that it's signal is weak. RF (Radio Frequency) modulation is directly affected by the nature of the audio fed to the exciter/transmitter. It is exacerbated by the fact that you're talking about stereo where left and right channels could be cancelling each other out to some degree. Theoretically unlikely with modern digital signal processing, but if the audio chain isn't configured optimally, there could be digital artifacting resulting in the perception of left and right channel phase cancellation which, again, would leave you with the impression of a weaker signal.

As for Classical 96, I've noticed the same thing -- even in low multipath environments (e.g.: driving along King Road in York Region). My theory is it has something to do with Safety Code 6 measures the station has to take.

There's a building planned within a block of First Canadian Place that will be slightly taller. The plans show a spire on the new building that roughly aligns with the apararture of an FM broadcast antenna. My hope is the Classical 96 can move there, and that with a new, upgraded master antenna/combiner at the CN Tower, CBLA can move to the tower -- dramatically reducing the Safety Code 6 complexity at First Canadian Place.  

There has been mention on this board of rumours of CN new master fm system but then no financial sense to do it commentary aswell.   Nothing online can be found for such news.  

torontostan wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Sound quality wise, CHUM, Virgin and BOOM have the best sound quality output.

CKFM is certainly not going to be among the best CN Tower stations in terms of reception (or sound quality for that matter) since they're on HD. They're also the only station not using Master FM, and so their antenna is actually higher up (further reducing their power). From what I understand CHUM-FM was originally up there as well, but are not right now. Meaning that technically there is room for at least 2 FM stations at the CN Tower right now. Only catch is they'd  have to negotiate with Bell (if they're interested in renting), and would need to be the correct FM class. 

Someone jump in if I'm incorrect. 

CKFM is still listed at 40k-watt power everywhere online and also play in analog/HD so im not sure if they even reduced their power.  When checking (north of barrie) CKFM and CHUM were both still being received, one was not weaker than the others. 
 

torontostan wrote:

They're also the only station not using Master FM, and so their antenna is actually higher up (further reducing their power). From what I understand CHUM-FM was originally up there as well, but are not right now. Meaning that technically there is room for at least 2 FM stations at the CN Tower right now. Only catch is they'd  have to negotiate with Bell (if they're interested in renting), and would need to be the correct FM class.. 

I'm quite sure CKFM is still on the Master FM antenna.  You don't mess with the main service.  I believe their HD signal is on a separate antenna (as was CHUM-HD) above the Master FM aperture (CFTO space).
 

torontostan wrote:

In Phase wrote:

I'm quite sure CKFM is still on the Master FM antenna.  You don't mess with the main service.  I believe their HD signal is on a separate antenna (as was CHUM-HD) above the Master FM aperture (CFTO space).
 

Just checked ISED and I believe it's so. Once CHUM-HD went silent they went back to Master FM exclusively, while CKFM went full-time on the higher antenna. Skywave explained that quite some time ago, and I believe this took place almost 5 years ago now. CKFM is about 90 feet higher than everyone else. 
 

Can you post the ISED info? 
 

markow202 wrote:

There has been mention on this board of rumours of CN new master fm system but then no financial sense to do it commentary aswell.   Nothing online can be found for such news.  

Zero to do with this audio processing issue...  as for news on the master upgrade.. there really is no public news because there is zero to really report.   It was in a consulting stage before the pandemic, and from those in the know, everything has been put on hold until we get past the current pandemic issue.   All stations on the tower have to chip in, and it's very costly.   Things I have been told by 2 major players up there, is they will be required to upgrade aged equipment regardless, and HD ability will be part of the modernized upgrade.  It will be up to each station if they want to add it to their signals.

As well, the fire at the CN tower directly connects to when Chum dropped their HD signal..   You can't help but wonder if it's related and why perhaps they didn't go back to air with it currently.    

Last edited by radiokid (February 3, 2022 11:34 am)