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December 13, 2021 5:47 pm  #1


Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Preliminary numbers are in for yesterdays Grey Cup and they aren't good.  Viewership was down 22% in English Canada. Numbers for Quebec are not yet available but the average English audience was just under 2.9 million viewers which was off from 3.9 million last year.  This is the lowest rating for the Grey Cup since TSN acquired exclusive broadcast rights in Canada in 2008.  https://3downnation.com/2021/12/13/tv-ratings-for-108th-grey-cup-between-bombers-ticats-down-22-percent-from-2019/

 

December 13, 2021 6:59 pm  #2


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

paterson1 wrote:

Numbers for Quebec are not yet available but the average English audience was just under 2.9 million viewers which was off from 3.9 million last year.

Man, a million more viewers last year, and there wasn't even a game

 

December 13, 2021 7:56 pm  #3


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Yes, going from 0 viewers last year to 2.9 million is pretty damn impressive...

     Thread Starter
 

December 13, 2021 8:11 pm  #4


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Could the NFL have been a factor? Both 4:25 games went into OT.

 

December 13, 2021 8:54 pm  #5


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

torontostan wrote:

I don't see why Bell wouldn't put the Grey Cup on CBC or CTV. Is anyone really subscribing to TSN just to watch the Grey Cup? I strongly doubt it. CFL fans of course would subscribe for the purpose of watching the season, but just for this game? Don't think so. Put it on OTA and I guarantee they'd see an increase of 10%

I'm not sure by what mechanism Bell would put the Grey Cup on CBC. As for CTV, they've obviously done the math that a 10% ratings increase isn't worth blowing a hole in their NFL revenue.

 

December 13, 2021 9:08 pm  #6


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

RadioAaron wrote:

torontostan wrote:

I don't see why Bell wouldn't put the Grey Cup on CBC or CTV. Is anyone really subscribing to TSN just to watch the Grey Cup? I strongly doubt it. CFL fans of course would subscribe for the purpose of watching the season, but just for this game? Don't think so. Put it on OTA and I guarantee they'd see an increase of 10%

I'm not sure by what mechanism Bell would put the Grey Cup on CBC. As for CTV, they've obviously done the math that a 10% ratings increase isn't worth blowing a hole in their NFL revenue.

It wouldn't be unheard of to have the Grey Cup on TSN/CBC or even eventually CBC sharing broadcast rights with TSN.  CBC partners with Bell (TSN/RDS/) already for the Olympics and this seems to work out very well for all parties, and most of all the viewer. Sportsnet also partners with CBC with NHL coverage, so this wouldn't be a stretch.  Can't see CTV ever showing the CFL since they are so invested with the NFL.   CTV2 however could carry some  CFL regular season games,  I am sort of surprised this already isn't happening. 

     Thread Starter
 

December 13, 2021 9:17 pm  #7


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

paterson1 wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

torontostan wrote:

I don't see why Bell wouldn't put the Grey Cup on CBC or CTV. Is anyone really subscribing to TSN just to watch the Grey Cup? I strongly doubt it. CFL fans of course would subscribe for the purpose of watching the season, but just for this game? Don't think so. Put it on OTA and I guarantee they'd see an increase of 10%

I'm not sure by what mechanism Bell would put the Grey Cup on CBC. As for CTV, they've obviously done the math that a 10% ratings increase isn't worth blowing a hole in their NFL revenue.

It wouldn't be unheard of to have the Grey Cup on TSN/CBC or even eventually CBC sharing broadcast rights with TSN.  CBC partners with Bell (TSN/RDS/) already for the Olympics and this seems to work out very well for all parties, and most of all the viewer. Sportsnet also partners with CBC with NHL coverage, so this wouldn't be a stretch.  Can't see CTV ever showing the CFL since they are so invested with the NFL.   CTV2 however could carry some  CFL regular season games,  I am sort of surprised this already isn't happening. 

Not going to happen. The CTV/CTV2 combination allows Bell to simsub most, but not all, NFL games.

 

December 13, 2021 9:22 pm  #8


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

CTV2 is a pretty significant part of Bell's NFL deal.

And yes, they could work out a deal with CBC for the GC, but I'm not sure what the benefit would really be for Bell. It would be a modest ratings increase at the cost of split revenue. Works for the Olympics where there's more content than space. And CBC gets none of the NHL revenue -- I don't think they'd repeat that for the CFL.

Personally, I don't subscribe to TSN and paid $8 to watch the cup. At 3 million viewers at $8, they would have made $24 million before ads on the broadcast. Doesn't take many streamers to make up any ratings increase by working out an OTA deal.

Last edited by RadioAaron (December 13, 2021 9:23 pm)

 

December 13, 2021 10:06 pm  #9


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

The NFL is in a position to negotiate with the major networks and the CFL is not. The CFL is barely significant in Canada's #1 media market.

The CFL isn't in a position to "bring new viewers to the game" and Bell doesn't care about that; they've done the math on what makes them more money today - It's literally all they care about.

Last edited by RadioAaron (December 13, 2021 10:07 pm)

 

December 13, 2021 10:09 pm  #10


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Good points mace and Aaron, however CTV2 running a CFL game of the week wouldn't impact anything they do with the NFL.  In a regular season the CFL starts mid June, about 3 months before the NFL season.  So no problems early in the season and CTV2 will have a welcome addition to some great sports programming during their somewhat boring summer schedule.  

When the NFL and CFL overlap, CTV2 continues with their regular NFL games.  They pick up their CFL game of the week when there is no conflict with anything they were showing with the NFL.  This shouldn't be that hard to schedule this. 

Grey Cup and possibly CFL play off games would be with TSNCBC.  I don't know if it would be such a big deal just to run TSN's coverage on CBC.  During the Olympics both TSN and Sportsnet at times were simulcasting the CBC feed  and I doubt that CBC was sharing revenue with the sports networks during these times.  I saw many promos for CBC programming on TSN/Sportsnet and the same commercials during these hours when they were simulcasting.  However some arrangements revenue wise could easily be made.  Just need to be creative. 

So the above arrangement would be good for the league, networks, a chance to increase revenue and ratings, and great for the fans with OTA coverage along with TSN still showing the bulk or even all of the games on cable. . 

     Thread Starter
 

December 13, 2021 10:22 pm  #11


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

paterson1 wrote:

Grey Cup and possibly CFL play off games would be with TSNCBC.  I don't know if it would be such a big deal just to run TSN's coverage on CBC.  During the Olympics both TSN and Sportsnet at times were simulcasting the CBC feed  and I doubt that CBC was sharing revenue with the sports networks during these times.  I saw many promos for CBC programming on TSN/Sportsnet and the same commercials during these hours when they were simulcasting.  However some arrangements revenue wise could easily be made.  Just need to be creative. 
 

I really don't see what's in it for Bell, and they're in the driver's seat. I don't see the ratings increase being worth any revenue split - as the revenue is likely based on the whole package and not the ratings of the final game(s). And if going OTA  with CBC did increase ratings, it'd likely come from CTV's NFL broadcasts, as well as their digital revenue. 

Bell has way more real numbers on this than any of us do -- and if the math worked, they'd do it.

 

December 13, 2021 10:36 pm  #12


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

I think there's an under-estimation of just how much bigger the NFL is than the CFL in Canada.

Check out the website for LIDS, who are a large sports apparel retailer in Canada. Look where the CFL ranks in the logos on their header.

https://www.lids.ca/en/

 

Last edited by RadioAaron (December 13, 2021 10:45 pm)

 

December 13, 2021 11:49 pm  #13


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

torontostan wrote:

But I do think this year more than ever proves that the CFL is dying, and if Bell isn't part of their recovery plan than their CFL TV profits will continue to slide.

Has Bell ever been interested in the recovery plan of something that's dying? Look at their approach to AM radio -- cut the losses and put it in hospice.

I'm not saying there aren't paths for a company like Bell to perform CPR on the CFL, but the idea that they "should" involve CTV or CBC or whoever to do it isn't going to happen.

They know it's dead, and they're squeezing the last pennies out of it. They'll marry younger and hotter until the money runs dry.

Last edited by RadioAaron (December 13, 2021 11:54 pm)

 

December 13, 2021 11:56 pm  #14


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

"It's dead, Jim"

Last edited by cash (December 13, 2021 11:56 pm)

 

December 14, 2021 12:02 am  #15


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

I have to admit when I am out and about running errands, I see many NHL/NBA/MLB/NHL caps and/or jerseys. CFL? Zip! That maybe because the Argos are an afterthought in Toronto. In Hamilton and most of the Western markets, CFL apparel may be more prevalent.

 

December 14, 2021 12:21 am  #16


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Well written torontostan and some good points.  And you as well Aaron.  Hey SportChek carries lots of CFL outerwear, and they are the largest sports apparel retailer in Canada.   Lids is US based so not surprising that they don't push the CFL. 

I guess my point is that the CFL regardless of the poorer ratings this year for the Grey Cup do surprisingly well in the television ratings. This considering they are dwarfed by the NFL and don't receive anywhere near the exposure or promotion from Bell Media.  On November 28th their 1pm playoff match rated higher than the NFL's various games on CTV that were played at the same time. The NFL Early games on CTV totaled 745,000 vs 890,000 for the Alouette Ti Cat game.  Yes I know the CFL skews older, not as sexy etc. etc. all of that.  But given the situation, it is still impressive in my opinion. 

So whether CBC is still a player for the broadcast rights in 2025, or if TSN would split the rights with them  we will see.  Or who knows streaming will continue to grow so everything is up in the air. 

Final note, ESPN2 and ESPN+ have shown every CFL game for years including the playoffs and Grey Cup.  I found it interesting that ESPN also has been a broadcast partner in the US with the CFL since 1980.  And the very first live football telecast in ESPN history was a CFL contest in 1980, between the Argos and Alouettes.  Who knew??

 

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December 14, 2021 2:55 am  #17


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

paterson1 wrote:

Well written torontostan and some good points.  And you as well Aaron.  Hey SportChek carries lots of CFL outerwear, and they are the largest sports apparel retailer in Canada.   Lids is US based so not surprising that they don't push the CFL. 

I guess my point is that the CFL regardless of the poorer ratings this year for the Grey Cup do surprisingly well in the television ratings. This considering they are dwarfed by the NFL and don't receive anywhere near the exposure or promotion from Bell Media.  On November 28th their 1pm playoff match rated higher than the NFL's various games on CTV that were played at the same time. The NFL Early games on CTV totaled 745,000 vs 890,000 for the Alouette Ti Cat game.  Yes I know the CFL skews older, not as sexy etc. etc. all of that.  But given the situation, it is still impressive in my opinion. 

So whether CBC is still a player for the broadcast rights in 2025, or if TSN would split the rights with them  we will see.  Or who knows streaming will continue to grow so everything is up in the air. 

Final note, ESPN2 and ESPN+ have shown every CFL game for years including the playoffs and Grey Cup.  I found it interesting that ESPN also has been a broadcast partner in the US with the CFL since 1980.  And the very first live football telecast in ESPN history was a CFL contest in 1980, between the Argos and Alouettes.  Who knew??

 

I'm glad you wrote this.  The CFL outdraws the NFL no matter people here seem to assume.

 

 

December 14, 2021 8:10 am  #18


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

The CFL has always been a gate-driven league -and the in-game stadium presentation is weak.  There's virtually no promotion or interest in Toronto. The Argos play in a decent stadium, but MLSE treats the team as an after thought. The league has lost generations of fans, save for aging baby-boomers, such as myself. Constant roster shuffling hurts the opportunity of fans to develop deeper attachments to individual players or their teams. The league also needs to look at ways to increase scoring - too many low-scoring games aren't helping. Until these get addressed, it doesn't matter who has the broadcast rights.

 

December 14, 2021 12:11 pm  #19


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

The Star's Damien Cox weighs in with a piece about CFL team owners being worried by a "steady decline" in the audience for the games, especially the Grey Cup. He includes this comparison:

"An average of about 2.87 million Canadians watched Sunday’s game, continuing a steady decline in Grey Cup viewership. More than four million watched in 2015, while the 2013 Grey Cup drew an average 5.5 million, almost double this year’s figure."

https://clearthis.page/?u=https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/opinion/2021/12/13/save-the-rouge-it-was-a-grey-cup-game-changer-but-cfl-tradition-might-get-the-boot.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=thestar_sports

 

December 14, 2021 3:10 pm  #20


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Be interesting to see the ESPN numbers.. it was available on ESPN2

 

December 14, 2021 5:09 pm  #21


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

ESPN 2 numbers are always low.  But ESPN2 carries a lot of sports that draw few viewers. Having said that the network must be ok with the ratings since they have carried the games for years. Most cable  networks stateside have seen their rating numbers plummet over the past 10 years. 

Interesting that the lowest Grey Cup ratings were back in 2001 when only 2.7 million people tuned in.  So they have been at the bottom before, and everyone was predicting the end of the league 20 years ago.  The TV universe was vastly different 20 years ago and more favourable to the league.  Naturally, the league and the ratings bounced back.  The answer is can they do it again and how do they do this?

     Thread Starter
 

December 14, 2021 5:17 pm  #22


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

This does not specifically address the Grey Cup game on ESPN2, but this may give you some idea of the American ratings. It's from Dec. 3rd and deals with the numbers on the U.S. cabler.

"The last time a CFL game aired on ESPN2 was back in Week 8 of the regular season two months ago. On September 24th, a late-night game on ESPN2 between the BC Lions and Saskatchewan Roughriders averaged 241,000 viewers. The telecast was ranked 84th out of 150 Cable TV shows in America in the 18-49 demo. (0.07). The CFL’s best ratings performance on ESPN2 this season.

"Heading into the playoffs, there have only been six total CFL games that have aired on ESPN2 this season.


  • Week 1: Winnipeg vs. Hamilton: 61,000 viewers
  • Week 1: Edmonton vs. Ottawa: 174,000 viewers
  • Week 3: Edmonton vs. BC: 116,000 viewers
  • Week 3: Toronto vs. Winnipeg: 76,000 viewers
  • Week 4: Calgary vs. Winnipeg: 78,000 viewers
  • Week 8: Saskatchewan vs. BC: 241,000 viewers

Nielsen Media Research no longer monitors the ESPN News CFL games as they have been in years past. So it’s difficult to get an idea of how well the CFL’s smattering of select games during the season on the channel have performed.

Then there's this:

"Eastern Semifinal game in the snow between the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and Montreal Alouettes averaged just 90,000 viewers on ESPN2. The broadcast went up against heavy competition in the United States, head to head with a full slate of NFL games. The CFL playoff telecast did so poorly that it did not rank in the top 200 cable shows on Sunday. With very little promotion by ESPN or care shown by the network. This was an expected outcome with a network that is too busy to focus on the Canadian league."

CFL 2021 Playoff TV Ratings On ESPN2/TSN 

 

December 14, 2021 6:10 pm  #23


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

Numeris just released the television top 30 for the week of Nov 29 to Dec 5th.  The Eastern playoff between Hamilton and Toronto was the highest rated sports program coming in at #13 with 1.117 million viewers.  The next highest rated sports event was NHL Hockey on Sportsnet at #18 with 1.053 million.  No NFL broadcasts on TSN, CTV or CTV2 cracked the top 30 in Canada Nov 29-Dec 5. 

The ESPN games are split between ESPN2 and ESPN+.  The US ratings would be more important if the CFL had some teams south of the border.  Interesting that the Saskatchewan and BC game drew an average of 241,000 people.  For ESPN2 that actually isn't that bad.  

     Thread Starter
 

December 22, 2021 12:02 pm  #24


Re: Entertaining Game But Poor Ratings for 108thGrey Cup on TSN

CFL Football took the number 1 and 3 spot in Canada's top 30 television ratings for Dec 6-12.   The 108th Grey Cup total audience, including ratings from RDS in Quebec, totalled 3.1 million viewers per average minute.  Over 7.1 million Canadians watched the game at some point.  Still down however from two years ago.  In the US on ESPN2 the broadcast averaged 129,000 viewers per minute which was up from two years ago.  

Bill Brioux from brioux.tv runs down the latest top 10 from Numeris..https://brioux.tv/blog/2021/12/21/108th-grey-cup-tops-ratings-across-canada-dec-6-12/

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