The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Why Does CTV Toronto News Do These Things?

RadioActive · November 11, 2021 4:49 pm

I don't mean to pick on CFTO's newscasts all the time, but since it's the main show I watch, I find that they often do things that baffle me. Here are a few. Maybe someone here can tell me the reasons.

1) Promo Problems

They do this all the time, at least on their noon show. In fact, I saw it again on Thursday. They'll air a promo about an upcoming story using the key "Still To Come." Fair enough. They'll then go to a piece of copy or a 30-60 sec. story or a weather lookahead. And then they go straight to the story they just promoted!

The purpose of a promo is to keep viewers tuned in, have them say, "Hey, that's a story I want to see. I guess I'll stay for it." Most stations would show it 10 or 20 mins. later, keeping their hours tuned up. Not CFTO. They put a piece of copy in and then play the story they just told you about. My question: why promote it if you're going to go to it seconds later? What's the point of telling me it's coming up, when it's literally coming up right away?

2) What Does The Word "Next" Mean?

This is almost the opposite of the above and if anything, it's more annoying. I've mentioned this one before, but it drives me crazy. (Not a long drive, as many here already know.) This is especially prevalent on the noon show, when they do a promo (that word again!) for the upcoming weather report, before throwing to a lengthy spot break. The super on screen says something like, "The Weather Is Next."

Not coming up.

Next.

But when the show returns, we instead get a 4-5 minute live hit with someone like Patti Lovett-Reid on a story that's not all that important. And it can go on forever. (I saw one live debrief on Wednesday with Glen McGregor about the upcoming Three Amigos summit that felt like it was an hour long instead of the 5-6 minutes it turned into - which is still way too long. And they were discussing a public relations-type meeting that hasn't even happened yet!)

I thought the key before the commercial said "Weather Is Next." Don't know about you, but to me 'next' means immediately following. If I'm in line at a grocery store and they tell me I'm next to get to the cashier, I expect to be next - not have six people immediately come in front of me and make me wait some more. This is a special pet peeve of mine, since the weather is one of the main things I watch for. And I generally don't care about the interview, which could go after the promised forecast. To be fair, they don't do this all the time, but often enough that it stands out.

3) The Missing Weather Anchor

Speaking of weather, we've mentioned this here before, too. On Thursday, they had Nathan Downer doing the noon forecast. I'm not sure you want one of your main anchors shilling for a law firm that sponsors the segment. They're supposed to be impartial and avoid the perception of speaking on anyone else's behalf.

Either way, it was pretty clear he wasn't comfortable with it. There were long pauses as he waited for the graphics to change, after the script ran out. At one point, he told us to expect rain around 8 PM. Seconds later, they ran future radar that showed the rain coming in at 11 o'clock instead. He then said to expect it at 11, totally contradicting his previous statement.

As noted, this doesn't work and they'd better fully staff their weather stable before the really bad winter blasts come in.

And finally:

4) A Royal Obsession

I may be alone in this, but I'm no fan of the monarchy, because, despite their historical significance, the simple act of being born should not lead to a life of privilege. However, they exist and that's a reality. But every time any member of the Royal Family, even a semi-obscure one (Princess Margaret's daughter's uncle) goes to, say, a flower show in Scotland, we get at least 30 secs. of viz and sometimes a clip about how wonderful it all is.

It's totally not news, and remember, when they're showing this Palace P.R., they're forced to leave out an actual news item that may be far more important. I would love to know if this is ordered from above or if the producer is a monarchist. Either way, it's totally irrelevant and almost always a complete waste of the viewer's valuable time.

I doubt there's anyone at CFTO who will either read this or respond, but I'd certainly like to know what they're thinking over there and who's making these irritating decisions.

markow202 · November 11, 2021 5:50 pm

"they dont make them like they used to" applies here.

Glen Warren · November 11, 2021 5:54 pm

There can be numerous reasons for the obsessions, quirks, inconsistencies etc. that you have outlined above.

It can sometimes be the news management's directive... so all newscasts have to conform. Or, it might be the latest "bright idea" from a nooze consultant (are they even still around ?)

A lot of time, the "policies" are something from a producer and are made in absence from overall policy or procedure from news management.... I've seen producers line up a newscast and they each have their own style, or put more importance or weight to one type of story, and its position in a rundown than what the other person in the producer role would do.

With respect to in show promos or teases, that sometimes is the doing of News Promotions / Publicity (believe it or not... they seem to know what kind of fluff piece is going to hold the viewers attention).

Then there are the constant barrage of e-mails outlining new procedures... "Effective Immediately... all reporter packs have to be 1:30 in duration. No exceptions! Then three of four weeks later a new memo comes out... "In an effort to give our viewers more information on a story item and going forward, all Reporter Pieces will be have to be 2:00 in duration." Huh??? Or telling the photogs to "shoot tighter... I don't want to see any mic flashes from the competition"... really ? Then there was the one directive that there would be no shots identifying which hospital that a shooting victim was transported to.... in order to prevent retaliation from potential rival street gangs. Seriously.... if a person was shot in the downtown core, the first Emergency room that they would most likely be transported to would be St. Mikes.... As Sunnybrook is the regional trauma centre...

Or the producer that wanted to start changing the format of all locator keys (10 mins. before air) to just give the general area of the accident or fire or crime... with just the major intersecting area cross streets only. So it would be Eglinton and Mt. Pleasant even though the car accident was on Manor Rd.

It has always baffled me..... whatever....

Hansa · November 11, 2021 6:05 pm

RadioActive wrote:
4) A Royal Obsession

I may be alone in this, but I'm no fan of the monarchy, because, despite their historical significance, the simple act of being born should not lead to a life of privilege. However, they exist and that's a reality. But every time any member of the Royal Family, even a semi-obscure one (Princess Margaret's daughter's uncle) goes to, say, a flower show in Scotland, we get at least 30 secs. of viz and sometimes a clip about how wonderful it all is.

It's totally not news, and remember, when they're showing this Palace P.R., they're forced to leave out an actual news item that may be far more important. I would love to know if this is ordered from above or if the producer is a monarchist. Either way, it's totally irrelevant and almost always a complete waste of the viewer's valuable time.

I doubt there's anyone at CFTO who will either read this or respond, but I'd certainly like to know what they're thinking over there and who's making these irritating decisions.

Perhaps a legacy of John Bassett, who was an ardent monarchist? I recall CFTO being the only private station in the GTA that bothered to carry the annual Royal Christmas Message (something CBC is obliged to do but is not required of private stations) and into the 80s they used to play God Save the Queen along with O Canada at signon and signoff - complete with (even then) very old footage of Her Majesty on horseback.

RadioActive · November 11, 2021 6:15 pm

I don't disagree that every shop has its own policies - and some of them can be inexplicable even to those who work there and have to follow them. I remember when my station's N.D. fell in love with maps. Every story had to briefly shrink the screen viz to show a map of where something had happened - even though the guy or gal doing the keys was going to put up a location anyway.

It just ended up with a screen that was too busy and took away focus from the actual scene - especially when the mantra was always lead with your best pictures first! Then they'd put a huge map over them. Insane and thankfully it only lasted a few short months.

As for your other points - my problem with the promos isn't that they're there. It's that they're promoting a story that's 30 seconds away. Why bother? If it were coming up after the break or in the next say, 5 minutes, that would make sense. But to take up valuable seconds to tell me what I'm about to see in less than a minute is pointless. To me a promo should be pumping something later in the show, to keep viewers tuned in to see it. One minute later defeats the whole purpose and frankly, it's a complete waste of precious airtime.

As for the royals, I suspect someone - a consultant or a senior producer - is under the impression that they're very popular and thus whenever a story - no matter how irrelevant - pops up, they're under orders to run it. I personally have no interest in knowing that William and Kate attended an art gallery opening today.

If it's an appearance by the Queen, who's been ill, that's news. If it's anyone else doing anything else, well, really - as my old radio news director used to say, WhoGAS*? (*Who gives a sh--" well, you get the idea.)

RadioActive · November 11, 2021 6:20 pm

One of my all time favourites.

RadioActive · November 11, 2021 6:30 pm

Wow. I love how this board works sometimes. An old friend of mine who worked at City TV in the 80s and 90s read this post and forwarded me this list of how that show so easily changed on a whim. I don't know if this actually happened or not, but it seems pretty true to life to me. It seems to centre on a story someone was supposed to do about Jewish schools. And I have no idea if it ever actually got to air.

But this certainly is plausible. I've seen it a zillion times over the years. He called it the "City TV Theory of Story Evolution."

God, what a business...

(For those who don't know a SOT stood for Sound On Tape aka a reporter's story, a VO was a voiceover and a Pack is the first, second, third etc. part of the show's line-up, separated by commercials.)

RadioAaron · November 11, 2021 6:53 pm

RadioActive wrote:
I

They do this all the time, at least on their noon show. In fact, I saw it again on Thursday. They'll air a promo about an upcoming story using the key "Still To Come." Fair enough. They'll then go to a piece of copy or a 30-60 sec. story or a weather lookahead. And then they go straight to the story they just promoted!

I saw research a couple years ago that said that weather is starting to become a tune-out for some, an indication that the 'meat' of the newscast is over, while still at the top of the list to tune in for others; so it's becoming divisive. So some shows tease a news story leading into the weather to prevent tune-out.

RadioActive · November 11, 2021 7:03 pm

Possible, I suppose. And yet almost all the Buffalo stations lead their 11 PM casts every night with weather - regardless of whether (weather?) it's lead-worthy or not. Interesting how the divide and priorities in different markets work.

RadioAaron · November 11, 2021 7:25 pm

If it's true that a segment of the audience finds it useless and an indication that the "news" portion of the cast is over, it makes perfect sense to lead with it.

RadioAaron · November 11, 2021 7:33 pm

I'm still a fan. I really like the visuals, especially on local stories. I don't *need* them, for sure, but they add sense of place and time for me.

(I am on the side of finding the weather reports useless. It's the same information and visuals as on my phone, except with someone standing in front of them. I also don't care about the overnight low in Peterborough or Ottawa.)

paterson1 · November 11, 2021 7:37 pm

I think CTV Toronto should be careful or they will lose the ratings crown they have held for decades. GTA viewers/listeners seem to be very loyal to their habits and stations, but with the poor handling of the weather at noon and even in the evening CTV should be careful not to take the audience for granted. In fairness however CTV/CP24 handling of the Barrie tornado in July was far superior to everyone else. I was impressed how CTV Toronto, CP24, CTV News Network and CTV Barrie all had their own reporters covering the situation, the reporting varied on all four.

It was easy to tell when CBC News Channel and CNN were in a major ratings period years ago since this was when specials on the Royal Family and/or The Kennedy's would be brought out. Today for CNN it is still the royals and anything about Trump and his rise to power or January 6th. Both are being pushed very hard right now with the CNN series Diana and the Jake Tapper special on the January 6 uprising. Don't think coverage of the Royal Family is going anywhere. I don't get the sense that CTV Toronto has any more coverage on the monarchy than anyone else.

betaylored · November 11, 2021 8:34 pm

Don't watch tv anymore. But I can see how those inaccuracies would be annoying to you RadioActive, and anyone else with a grasp of the English language.

Radio has it's own "bug not a feature" quirks. Music radio stations will have their on-air personalities call a song "brand new" even though they've been playing it for four months or longer.

We used to say "brand new" a week or two tops, then "new" a few more weeks, then "newest" and finally switch to "the latest from".

Talk radio will sometimes promo a story, then completely not get around to it. Not going to name names but it's usually the same couple of hosts who fail to keep an eye on the clock.

Viewers and listeners aren't fooled, just grabbing the remote and switching the dial.

Last edited by betaylored (November 11, 2021 8:35 pm)

ED1 · November 12, 2021 12:13 pm

How about the more-than-occasional instances of video airing on CFTO News that's either not white balanced, exposure set too high, or the subject completely out of focus. I would expect this at any TV market below the level of Toronto, but not at CFTO, and it's really concerning how many times it happens.

The 11:30 newscast has gone downhill too. It used to be one of the more watchable late night newscasts in the country. With the scrapping of the sports department and the pre-taping of their weather segments, it's really a boring newscast to watch now.

Glen Warren · November 12, 2021 1:16 pm

This is largely due to the layoffs of most of the camera/photogs over the past year and a bit... everyone now at CFTO, is a Video Journalist.... report, shoot, edit their own stories/pieces. Some traditional reporters were offered "training" in all things camera and editing, but they had to agree to a classification change from "reporter" to "video journalist"

You are absolutely right, that quality is in decline. But it is happening everywhere, not just at sifto....

There are many YouTubers or video bloggers who have more awareness and appreciation for technical quality than what is now happening on traditional broadcast stations and their respective newscasts....

RadioActive · November 12, 2021 1:45 pm

I believe this is all part of the Bell "shareholders are all that matter" syndrome. Doesn't matter what the on-air content looks or sounds like, as long as the money flows to the right people. It's not about white balance but green balance.

Other ownerships are guilty of this, too, but Bell has taken it to a new level. Just remember how they decimated the CFRB newsroom a few months back. It's no longer "Ontario's Authoritative News Voice," as the old slogan went. In fact, it barely has a news voice anymore at all.

MJ Vancouver · November 12, 2021 2:19 pm

paterson1 wrote:
I think CTV Toronto should be careful or they will lose the ratings crown they have held for decades. GTA viewers/listeners seem to be very loyal to their habits and stations, but with the poor handling of the weather at noon and even in the evening CTV should be careful not to take the audience for granted. In fairness however CTV/CP24 handling of the Barrie tornado in July was far superior to everyone else. I was impressed how CTV Toronto, CP24, CTV News Network and CTV Barrie all had their own reporters covering the situation, the reporting varied on all four.

It was easy to tell when CBC News Channel and CNN were in a major ratings period years ago since this was when specials on the Royal Family and/or The Kennedy's would be brought out. Today for CNN it is still the royals and anything about Trump and his rise to power or January 6th. Both are being pushed very hard right now with the CNN series Diana and the Jake Tapper special on the January 6 uprising. Don't think coverage of the Royal Family is going anywhere. I don't get the sense that CTV Toronto has any more coverage on the monarchy than anyone else.

I haven’t seen a CFTO newscast since Joe Tilley and Lance Brown were still there as I’m now on the west coast, but based what I’ve read CTV has taken their Toronto audience a lot more for granted than how Global has treated its crown jewel, BCTV. Global BC has no fewer than three meteorologists on staff plus a fourth weather anchor, and a full sports department. I believe Global Calgary and Edmonton are similarly run.

That being said, Global’s equivalent of CP24, BC1, shares the same newsroom as Global BC, so that probably makes a difference compared with CFTO vis-a-vis CP24.

markow202 · November 12, 2021 2:28 pm

It seems Bell might handle their radio "quality" a bit better. Listening at times to stations like CHUM1045, their announcers, sound quality and music selection for the genre they are doing is still carefully done.

paterson1 · November 12, 2021 2:56 pm

MJ Vancouver wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
I think CTV Toronto should be careful or they will lose the ratings crown they have held for decades. GTA viewers/listeners seem to be very loyal to their habits and stations, but with the poor handling of the weather at noon and even in the evening CTV should be careful not to take the audience for granted. In fairness however CTV/CP24 handling of the Barrie tornado in July was far superior to everyone else. I was impressed how CTV Toronto, CP24, CTV News Network and CTV Barrie all had their own reporters covering the situation, the reporting varied on all four.

It was easy to tell when CBC News Channel and CNN were in a major ratings period years ago since this was when specials on the Royal Family and/or The Kennedy's would be brought out. Today for CNN it is still the royals and anything about Trump and his rise to power or January 6th. Both are being pushed very hard right now with the CNN series Diana and the Jake Tapper special on the January 6 uprising. Don't think coverage of the Royal Family is going anywhere. I don't get the sense that CTV Toronto has any more coverage on the monarchy than anyone else.
I haven’t seen a CFTO newscast since Joe Tilley and Lance Brown were still there as I’m now on the west coast, but based what I’ve read CTV has taken their Toronto audience a lot more for granted than how Global has treated its crown jewel, BCTV. Global BC has no fewer than three meteorologists on staff plus a fourth weather anchor, and a full sports department. I believe Global Calgary and Edmonton are similarly run.

That being said, Global’s equivalent of CP24, BC1, shares the same newsroom as Global BC, so that probably makes a difference compared with CFTO vis-a-vis CP24.

Global Toronto I would think should be making some rating gains on CFTO (CTV Toronto) particularly with the local/national newscasts at 5:30, 6 and 6:30. Global does a much better weather package than CTV and their weather presenters have more personality and fun. Chief meteorologist Anthony Farnell is front and centre and out in the community a lot. Global has four weather presenters altogether and two or three of them are meteorologists. Would love to see the evening news ratings to see how everyone is stacking up, and if the mighty CFTO has been dropping audience at all.

Global has been making big gains against CTV in prime time ratings of late. Global often equals and even beats CTV some weeks with more shows in the top ten, and this hasn't happened for a long time. Even though it doesn't get the ratings, often I find AM640 as good, even better than Newstalk 1010 after 9am weekdays, and of course Q107 is doing really well ratings wise. So Corus has been on a bit of a tear over the past year at least in the Toronto market. Just flip CFNY to a new country format with some strong hosts and shake up Toronto's somewhat stagnant radio scene!

MJ Vancouver · November 13, 2021 12:52 pm

paterson1 wrote:
MJ Vancouver wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
I think CTV Toronto should be careful or they will lose the ratings crown they have held for decades. GTA viewers/listeners seem to be very loyal to their habits and stations, but with the poor handling of the weather at noon and even in the evening CTV should be careful not to take the audience for granted. In fairness however CTV/CP24 handling of the Barrie tornado in July was far superior to everyone else. I was impressed how CTV Toronto, CP24, CTV News Network and CTV Barrie all had their own reporters covering the situation, the reporting varied on all four.

It was easy to tell when CBC News Channel and CNN were in a major ratings period years ago since this was when specials on the Royal Family and/or The Kennedy's would be brought out. Today for CNN it is still the royals and anything about Trump and his rise to power or January 6th. Both are being pushed very hard right now with the CNN series Diana and the Jake Tapper special on the January 6 uprising. Don't think coverage of the Royal Family is going anywhere. I don't get the sense that CTV Toronto has any more coverage on the monarchy than anyone else.
I haven’t seen a CFTO newscast since Joe Tilley and Lance Brown were still there as I’m now on the west coast, but based what I’ve read CTV has taken their Toronto audience a lot more for granted than how Global has treated its crown jewel, BCTV. Global BC has no fewer than three meteorologists on staff plus a fourth weather anchor, and a full sports department. I believe Global Calgary and Edmonton are similarly run.

That being said, Global’s equivalent of CP24, BC1, shares the same newsroom as Global BC, so that probably makes a difference compared with CFTO vis-a-vis CP24.
Global Toronto I would think should be making some rating gains on CFTO (CTV Toronto) particularly with the local/national newscasts at 5:30, 6 and 6:30. Global does a much better weather package than CTV and their weather presenters have more personality and fun. Chief meteorologist Anthony Farnell is front and centre and out in the community a lot. Global has four weather presenters altogether and two or three of them are meteorologists. Would love to see the evening news ratings to see how everyone is stacking up, and if the mighty CFTO has been dropping audience at all.

Global has been making big gains against CTV in prime time ratings of late. Global often equals and even beats CTV some weeks with more shows in the top ten, and this hasn't happened for a long time. Even though it doesn't get the ratings, often I find AM640 as good, even better than Newstalk 1010 after 9am weekdays, and of course Q107 is doing really well ratings wise. So Corus has been on a bit of a tear over the past year at least in the Toronto market. Just flip CFNY to a new country format with some strong hosts and shake up Toronto's somewhat stagnant radio scene!

Admittedly I haven’t seen a Global newscast in Ontario for some time, but from what I remember it was very different from Global BC. A lot more entertainment news or ET Canada cross-promotion, more fluff news, and curiously stories missing one of the five W’s of journalism - “where”. But all that could have changed since for all I know.

Global BC also has a more “provincial” approach to its news from what I’ve observed, while in Ontario it is much more centered on the GTA, despite there being no other Global stations in Ontario aside from Peterborough and Kingston.

Last edited by MJ Vancouver (November 13, 2021 12:56 pm)

zed · November 13, 2021 12:59 pm

MJVancouver.... Yes it has.

I would rate Global Toronto well ahead of CTV Toronto in overall presentation and content. They have broken many stories exclusively and as previously mentioned have actual meteorologists doing the weather. Anthony Farnelll is one of the best I have every seen. They also cover sports.

MJ Vancouver · November 13, 2021 1:19 pm

zed wrote:
MJVancouver.... Yes it has.

I would rate Global Toronto well ahead of CTV Toronto in overall presentation and content. They have broken many stories exclusively and as previously mentioned have actual meteorologists doing the weather. Anthony Farnelll is one of the best I have every seen. They also cover sports.

I’ll definitely have to check it out. I think Leslie Roberts was still there the last time I watched their news from start to finish.

ED1 · November 13, 2021 1:51 pm

MJ Vancouver wrote:
zed wrote:
MJVancouver.... Yes it has.

I would rate Global Toronto well ahead of CTV Toronto in overall presentation and content. They have broken many stories exclusively and as previously mentioned have actual meteorologists doing the weather. Anthony Farnelll is one of the best I have every seen. They also cover sports.

I’ll definitely have to check it out. I think Leslie Roberts was still there the last time I watched their news from start to finish.

For me, Global Toronto loses marks when they lead with something like OJ Simpson at 6 PM. Then again, on that same night, CFTO had OJ as the 2nd story in the A-block. On the plus side, Global has the likes of Sean O'Shea - he does very good consumer reporting. Their entire weather team is also pretty good, they have several meteorologists (not just weather presenters) on staff. Their morning news is also pretty good if you want a local, no-frills, fairly serious option in the morning.

RadioActive · November 13, 2021 9:12 pm

Speaking of weather forecasts, did anyone else ever hear about this? I never even knew it existed.

Environment Canada's Hello Weather

Peter the K · November 13, 2021 10:15 pm

RadioActive wrote:
Speaking of weather forecasts, did anyone else ever hear about this? I never even knew it existed.

Environment Canada's Hello Weather

Oh wow! I had no idea either. Wonder how many calls it gets?