sowny.net | The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

December 15, 2019 12:04 am  #1


City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

I happened to be tuning past City TV on Saturday, when I saw this unusual slide appear. I'm not sure how long it was up, but it's the first time I can ever recall seeing a message like this to OTA viewers from any station, either American or Canadian.

 

December 15, 2019 9:27 am  #2


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

OTA here as well...   I checked CITY just after 12am... a "City Line" repeat was airing.... 

 

December 15, 2019 2:57 pm  #3


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

Well its nice of them to let people know. 

 

December 16, 2019 4:47 am  #4


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

I've been having a lot of problems getting both the CityTV and GlobalTV signals on my HD antenna for the last 4 days. Doesn't seem like the signal is that strong lately, while CTV and CBC are fine. 

Wonder if this is related to that CityTV slide.

 

December 16, 2019 12:52 pm  #5


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

Ive actually been losing CFTO while others are ok.  Dont knwo if they are shutting their transmitter at night or its some sort of disturbance.

 

December 16, 2019 1:17 pm  #6


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

The issues are related to the repack of various CN Tower stations relocating to Ch 17 (Global)
Ch 18 (CFMT) and Ch. 30 (CITY).  There are applications pending for a channel swap between Citytv and CFMT-DT.   So Global and Citytv will occupy Ch. 17 and 18 and CFMT will occupy Ch. 30.  In any event all of this preparation has to be done for repack changes in 2020. Signals on the "new" channels should be comparable if not better than currently licensed parameters on RF 41, 44, 47 etc.


 

 

December 16, 2019 1:47 pm  #7


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

tvguy wrote:

The issues are related to the repack of various CN Tower stations relocating to Ch 17 (Global)
Ch 18 (CFMT) and Ch. 30 (CITY).  There are applications pending for a channel swap between Citytv and CFMT-DT.   So Global and Citytv will occupy Ch. 17 and 18 and CFMT will occupy Ch. 30.  In any event all of this preparation has to be done for repack changes in 2020. Signals on the "new" channels should be comparable if not better than currently licensed parameters on RF 41, 44, 47 etc.


 

So it looks like a lot more combining onto one antenna(s) and shutting old ones down once approved?   I beleive Global Paris Ont is on 17 currently. 

Last edited by markow202 (December 16, 2019 1:48 pm)

 

December 17, 2019 1:04 pm  #8


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

I have often wondered how well the Toronto stations are received down in Ft.Erie/Buffalo. At barely 14K watts I would imagine CFTO would be a significant challenge, especially being on VHF.

 

December 17, 2019 1:41 pm  #9


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

tvguy wrote:

The issues are related to the repack of various CN Tower stations relocating to Ch 17 (Global)
Ch 18 (CFMT) and Ch. 30 (CITY).  There are applications pending for a channel swap between Citytv and CFMT-DT.   So Global and Citytv will occupy Ch. 17 and 18 and CFMT will occupy Ch. 30.  In any event all of this preparation has to be done for repack changes in 2020. Signals on the "new" channels should be comparable if not better than currently licensed parameters on RF 41, 44, 47 etc. 

Here's what I've been able to piece together for the CN Tower post-repack (1 VHF Antenna, 2 UHF Antennas):

1,545 Feet
8 - CFTO / 13.8 kW (Complete)

1,611 Feet
19 - CICA / 106.5 kW (No Change)
20 - CBLT / 106.9 kW (No Change)
25 - CBLFT / 106.2 kW (No Change)

1,650 Feet
17 - CIII / 59.8 kW
18 - CITY / 49.4 kW
26 - CJMT / 14.6 kW
30 - CFMT / 16 kW

Assumption 1: Channel swap between CITY and CFMT is merely a rubber stamp from the CRTC.
Assumption 2: The top ~100 feet of the mast could be reserved for ATSC 3.0 testing.

Thats amazing detailed info tvguy!  Where do you source it from?

I remember in the analog days the top little piece left of the mast (where all the signatures are) was CITY's antenna.  It looks like you said, it now wont be used.

Im also wondering the old CBLT analog antenna, its just left there unplugged above Master FM? 
 

 

December 17, 2019 2:27 pm  #10


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

Various sources.  Still in the "business" so I have access to a lot of data.  But www.rabbitears.info has a lot of links to FCC database, very accurate repack info, contour maps, etc.   The FCC database is somewhat less reliable than rabbitears.info.  So start with rabbit ears.  Buffalo is now "market 54" on their list of TV markets.   A lot of data is also buried on the CRTC site, but you have to "know" which proceedings are "open", which are "closed" and where those files can be found.  The site frequently malfunctions.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php

The FCC has published on its site, the flow-chart of the re-pack phases with "start testing" and "end testing" dates.  

https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule

Buffalo (and to a large degree Toronto) will be impacted in "Phase 8".

For example, the (future)  use of Ch. 26 Toronto, was predicated by the removal of the Jamestown NY religious broadcaster to VHF channel 5, earlier this year.

For the record, the portion of the ISED site, (Canadian Govt) that is public facing is horrible, out of date, and has erroneous entries.  Much of what I have come to expect from the Cdn Gov't.  Professional Engineers tell me that the portion of the ISED site that is accessible to them, is also unreliable.   Not that this ISED Minister (Navdeep Bains), or the next cabinet minister who follows him, really cares.  Hon. Minster Bains has probably never bothered to search out any data on his department's website.  otherwise he might be outraged, and have the damn thing fixed.

And one last thing.  There is actually still a device known as a "telephone" I have one (a black phone on my desk) connected to a cord.  Yes, it is something of an anachronism.  Sometimes if you look up the phone number for a Buffalo TV station, and call the engineering department, the chief engineer will "answer" his phone and provide data, quite happily regarding tower modifications, power reductions, and target dates.   John Carroll at WIVB/WNLO and Michael Anger at WKBW have been very helpful over the years, providing info on technical changes that have impacted their stations.    Kudos to them for keeping me advised of their  companies' "STA" operations at reduced power during this phase of the repack. As you may know from reading some of my posts, the number of huge structural projects in the U.S. which require hoisting of antennas that weigh many tons, has delayed a lot of tower work.  So what had been projected for WIVB/WNLO as a Fall 2019 tower upgrade, won't take place until spring 2020.   "Skycranes" don't perform too well in Western NY winter conditions so they have delayed the tower work that will permit a major power increase for WNLO/WIVB.

Last edited by tvguy (December 17, 2019 2:40 pm)

 

December 17, 2019 3:41 pm  #11


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

tvguy wrote:

John Carroll at WIVB/WNLO and Michael Anger at WKBW have been very helpful over the years, providing info on technical changes that have impacted their stations.    Kudos to them

Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Don't know Mr. Anger, but I've talked to John Carroll before when WIVB was moving back to its old location and he was very helpful. So was the engineering chief at WUTV. Sometimes they're not so easy to get on the phone, but when you do, they're very helpful and don't mind answering questions.

     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2019 12:21 pm  #12


Re: City TV Issues Unusual Warning To Over-The-Air Viewers

I wonder if this had anything to do with it?

CITY-DT Toronto and CFMT-DT Toronto – Technical changes

The Commission approves the applications by Rogers Media Inc. to change the authorized contours of the English-language television programming undertakings CITY-DT Toronto and CFMT-DT Toronto by exchanging the channels on which their respective transmitters are assigned to operate. Going forward, CITY-DT will operate its transmitter on channel 18 and CFMT-DT will operate its transmitter on channel 30. The Commission also approves the request to increase the effective radiated power of CITY-DT Toronto from 16,000 to 49,000 watts.