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July 30, 2019 6:11 pm  #31


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

As far as CITS (YesTV, Channel 36) is concerned, they're coming in as 14.1 on all my TVs and DVRs, suggesting they didn't bother with a virtual channel this time. I wonder why. Anyone else seeing this?

Confirmed
 

 

July 31, 2019 8:26 am  #32


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Mine also shows 14.1 CITS.    WUTV is coming in with a much stronger signal.

 

July 31, 2019 9:58 am  #33


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

TechGirl wrote:

Holding true to the Canadian way of not making waves I'm sure our broadcasters just went along with whatever the government said they had to do and in typical Canadian fashion planned to make up the $$$ of doing the switch by passing the cost on to Canadian consumers via increases to cable and cellular fees!

By and large, Canadian broadcasters are also cable and cellular companies. A fundamental structural and regulatory "problem" IMHO.

As BDUs, they have next to no incentive to deliver OTA service. They offer OTA in major Canadian markets because of a meager directive from the CRTC.

Spot on Tim!!

I thought I read somewhere that one of the Canadian channels (or maybe all) was being funded by the government to keep OTA going (I think this was up north) but the funding ended or ran out so the broadcaster was looking to end it. It might have been TVO. Actually TVO is pretty good. I would also be upset if I lost that along with CBC. The rest could go by the wayside IMHO but obviously a lot of other folks rely on the Canadian OTA because they don't get the U.S channels.
 

 

July 31, 2019 10:05 am  #34


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Is anyone else having trouble with 23.1/23.2 (CW/Bounce) and 4.1/4.2 (WIVB/Court TV)? Both of these were dark for me most of Monday but they finally kicked in later Monday night then I lost them again sometime Tuesday.

ION went dark for me as well. I really hope that comes back but these channels were always iffy for me other than they have been pretty good the past month. CW and WIVB on the other hand have always been rock solid so this is not a good situation if they've gone dark.

I'm not sure whether to do a rescan again or to wait a couple days or maybe I need to reposition my antenna (indoor).

Ugh!!

 

July 31, 2019 10:57 am  #35


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Not the best news as far as WIVB and WNLO are concerned. The stations relocated to their Colden, N.Y. antenna site from where they were before the last change, which I think was Grand Island. That improves reception for OTA viewers in Buffalo, but does nothing for those of us in the GTA. The fact that the new site is farther away from us means, depending on your antenna set-up, you're likely to have issues with both Channels 4 and 23 for the foreseeable (or in our case, maybe not-so-seeable) future. 

That's why I was so unhappy with the move. Before the last change, WIVB was always a problem. But WNLO was one of the best signals into Toronto and you could get them during a winter blizzard or a summer thunderstorm. Now it's always going to be a crapshoot for both of them.

A sad consequence of the repack. 

On the bright side, your WUTV, Channel 29, should be a lot more reliable, so there's that. And WGRZ isn't going anywhere and they put a great signal into most of the GTA.   

     Thread Starter
 

July 31, 2019 11:46 am  #36


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

Not the best news as far as WIVB and WNLO are concerned. The stations relocated to their Colden, N.Y. antenna site from where they were before the last change, which I think was Grand Island. That improves reception for OTA viewers in Buffalo, but does nothing for those of us in the GTA. The fact that the new site is farther away from us means, depending on your antenna set-up, you're likely to have issues with both Channels 4 and 23 for the foreseeable (or in our case, maybe not-so-seeable) future. 

That's why I was so unhappy with the move. Before the last change, WIVB was always a problem. But WNLO was one of the best signals into Toronto and you could get them during a winter blizzard or a summer thunderstorm. Now it's always going to be a crapshoot for both of them.

A sad consequence of the repack. 

On the bright side, your WUTV, Channel 29, should be a lot more reliable, so there's that. And WGRZ isn't going anywhere and they put a great signal into most of the GTA.   

Aack!! I guess I read too many posts on this on various sites. I thought they were moving to Grand Island with this repack. Aack! Weird how I was able to get them really clear Monday night and most of yesterday unless they were sporadically broadcasting from the old tower. The 29 series of channels seem to be better but I really didn't have a problem with them in the past so the loss of 4 and 23 are greater impact than a slightly sharper 29. :-( :-) Aack!!!

I will try moving my antenna. I haven't touched it for at least a month because all channels (Canadian and U.S) were coming in so well. Maybe if I grab my antenna, stick my arm out and pivot 45 degrees I will be able to pull them in again. :-)

 

July 31, 2019 11:52 am  #37


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I think they were on Grand Island temporarily, but then moved back to Colden on Monday. And that appears where they're going to stay.

A lot of whether you get either channel or not depends on your antenna and the weather. Is yours an outdoor rig? If not, could you put one up? The more height, the more likely you'll get a decent signal. Also, do you have an amplifier? They can really help boost a signal and can be the difference between getting a station and getting a black screen.  

     Thread Starter
 

July 31, 2019 1:41 pm  #38


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

On a slightly different note, working Downtown T.O.....they is what seems to be two maintenance (painters?) climbing up and down the exterior upper white mast radome of the CN Tower today.

Hope they are wearing their RF suits! 

 

July 31, 2019 1:47 pm  #39


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

CN Tower signals will be going to backups overnight next week for this painting job.

 

July 31, 2019 2:30 pm  #40


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

I think they were on Grand Island temporarily, but then moved back to Colden on Monday. And that appears where they're going to stay.

A lot of whether you get either channel or not depends on your antenna and the weather. Is yours an outdoor rig? If not, could you put one up? The more height, the more likely you'll get a decent signal. Also, do you have an amplifier? They can really help boost a signal and can be the difference between getting a station and getting a black screen.  

Before people make changes, or re-aim their antenna systems, wait a few weeks for WNLO/WIVB to complete their tower work.  Nothing you do now is likely to improve or stabilize reception.  The stations are operating under what is known as an FCC "temporary authority" (STA) and are transmitting at much less than authorized power.  The antenna is not their "final" transmitting antenna.  It is side-mounted on the tower and much lower (more than 100 Metres lower) than the final installation.  So I would expect that reception would be comparable to, or better than WKBW, when the work is completed given distance from the GTA, the projected coverage map and the increase to around 800,000 watts ERP.  No one from the company has disclosed the projected completion date.
 

 

July 31, 2019 2:41 pm  #41


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

mace wrote:

Hi Techgirl. You seem to be doing amazingly well with your indoor antenna. The ION stations that you love are located in Batavia, about half way between Buffalo and Rochester. When I had access to an antenna, I only received them during tropo conditions during early mornings or evenings. Could never count on them for a reliable 24/7 signal. However, when it did come in I usually got WBBZ as well.

Hi mace. Apologies. I missed your post. Yes, my little indoor antenna has been amazing for picking up all of the stations out of Buffalo (well most of them that is). Even the stations that supposedly needed an outdoor antenna to pickup. Out of the U.S I'm able to get the 2's, 4's, 7's, 17's, 23's, 29's, 49's and 51's although the 51's were just recently. Of course I can get all of the Canadian stations in the area. The only ones I can't get are Hamilton unless I swing my antenna around but then I lose most of the others although I haven't tried this in a while so maybe that has changed.

 

July 31, 2019 2:47 pm  #42


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

TechGirl wrote:

mace wrote:

Hi Techgirl. You seem to be doing amazingly well with your indoor antenna. The ION stations that you love are located in Batavia, about half way between Buffalo and Rochester. When I had access to an antenna, I only received them during tropo conditions during early mornings or evenings. Could never count on them for a reliable 24/7 signal. However, when it did come in I usually got WBBZ as well.

Hi mace. Apologies. I missed your post. Yes, my little indoor antenna has been amazing for picking up all of the stations out of Buffalo (well most of them that is). Even the stations that supposedly needed an outdoor antenna to pickup. Out of the U.S I'm able to get the 2's, 4's, 7's, 17's, 23's, 29's, 49's and 51's although the 51's were just recently. Of course I can get all of the Canadian stations in the area. The only ones I can't get are Hamilton unless I swing my antenna around but then I lose most of the others although I haven't tried this in a while so maybe that has changed.

By any chance is your indoor antenna a TERK HDTVa?  I started my OTA with one of these and I must say it was just as good as a roof outdoor.

 

July 31, 2019 2:47 pm  #43


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

They're painting the radome on the CN Tower? Are you guys sure it's paint?

Will check again but there definately was two guys hanging around the middle of the radome mast!  You can even see two little doors that were open.  

 

July 31, 2019 2:49 pm  #44


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

I think they were on Grand Island temporarily, but then moved back to Colden on Monday. And that appears where they're going to stay.

A lot of whether you get either channel or not depends on your antenna and the weather. Is yours an outdoor rig? If not, could you put one up? The more height, the more likely you'll get a decent signal. Also, do you have an amplifier? They can really help boost a signal and can be the difference between getting a station and getting a black screen.  

Before people make changes, or re-aim their antenna systems, wait a few weeks for WNLO/WIVB to complete their tower work.  Nothing you do now is likely to improve or stabilize reception.  The stations are operating under what is known as an FCC "temporary authority" (STA) and are transmitting at much less than authorized power.  The antenna is not their "final" transmitting antenna.  It is side-mounted on the tower and much lower (more than 100 Metres lower) than the final installation.  So I would expect that reception would be comparable to, or better than WKBW, when the work is completed given distance from the GTA, the projected coverage map and the increase to around 800,000 watts ERP.  No one from the company has disclosed the projected completion date.
 

Thanks for this! I was just about to post an update to WNLO/WIVB when I saw your post. I agree to wait before adjusting antennas. I just re-checked those channels and I'm able to receive them again after almost 24 hours of darkness so there is definitely work still going on. Thankfully I didn't start mucking with my antenna although given mine is indoors it's not that much of an effort to move it around. :-)

 

July 31, 2019 3:35 pm  #45


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

They're painting the radome on the CN Tower? Are you guys sure it's paint?

Will check again but there definately was two guys hanging around the middle of the radome mast!  You can even see two little doors that were open.  

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're using paint. They could be using something else.

Perhaps not paint, maybe just cleaning.  I can definately confirm its looking better.  

 

July 31, 2019 3:54 pm  #46


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioAaron wrote:

CN Tower signals will be going to backups overnight next week for this painting job.

A week shy of the height of the Perseid meteor shower (Aug 11-13), which can bring in some very abrupt / brief but intense DX signals from 300-1400 miles away, but the shower will be inching closer and there should still be some level of activity during the week prior. I will be ready and waiting (recording several channels, actually, because sitting on an empty or mostly-empty channel is like listening to paint dry).
 

 

July 31, 2019 4:50 pm  #47


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:


Yes, but that doesn't mean they're using paint. They could be using something else.

Perhaps not paint, maybe just cleaning.  I can definately confirm its looking better.  

Thanks for clarifying. Paint and radome generally aren't a good combination.

Wasnt the case in summer 2017 

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/cn-tower-painter-job-photo-2017

 

July 31, 2019 6:39 pm  #48


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

The radome for the microwave area was replaced about 14 or 15 years ago (IIRC).

The microwave radome is the white ring or donut around the lower area of the 360 restaurant.

 

August 1, 2019 7:28 am  #49


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

It's official. WPXJ, Channel 51 from Batavia, has switched frequencies to Channel 23 (although still as 51 on your set.) Last night, I noticed the station wasn't coming in, so I tried scanning their new home, and sure enough the signal popped back in. It was hard to tell because it's sometimes intermittent here.

If 51 is gone, try re-scanning the new frequency and if conditions are right, it should return.

On another front, I noticed on Wednesday that WIVB/WNLO are still airing the rescan announcement. Who is this for? If you watch OTA and haven't tuned in their new frequency, how will you be able to see this announcement?

     Thread Starter
 

August 1, 2019 7:56 am  #50


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

 If you watch OTA and haven't tuned in their new frequency, how will you be able to see this announcement?

Reminds me of the old trick we used to play on newbie radio announcers... "Quick, open the mic and tell the listeners we're off the air"
 

 

August 1, 2019 12:05 pm  #51


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

Glen Warren wrote:

The radome for the microwave area was replaced about 14 or 15 years ago (IIRC).

The microwave radome is the white ring or donut around the lower area of the 360 restaurant.

The radome panels that run up the mast are the originals from the 1970s.

Here they are being installed.

In this case since its fibreglass (probably something you'd see on a typical body of a boat) its being cleaned/polished/waxed who knows....to renew appearence and its working.

Just dont know how its happening in the middle of the day as they are up there now around the first portion which is the FM area above skypod.

Last edited by markow202 (August 1, 2019 12:05 pm)

 

August 1, 2019 3:00 pm  #52


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RA - WPXJ has NOT changed channels. It is still on the pre-repack assignment of Ch. 23.  It cannot move until WJET-TV Erie (the next market over) vacates Ch. 24.  WJET is scheduled to make the change to Ch. 28, Friday evening - Aug 2nd, at 6:30 pm.   The likelihood is that WPXJ will move to Ch. 24 sometime over the weekend.   It may also broadcast on a temporary antenna until it re-locates to the WNLO-49 tower.   WNLO (repack Ch. 16)  is scheduled to re-locate to the Grand Island WUTV Tower, but that may take some time.

 

August 1, 2019 3:36 pm  #53


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

So how come I couldn't get it until I rescanned on 23 and my DVR said "6 new channels found?" That's why I thought the change had been made. Very odd, since I've had it tuned in for years. Thanks for the update in any case. A very weird set of circumstances at play here. I will rescan for 24 over the weekend and hope it's one of those days when it's coming in.

I wasn't aware that WNLO was going back to Grand Island - that's very good news, since the move to Colden has resulted in a less stable signal into Toronto. As stated before, it used to be one of the strongest ones into the GTA from across the border. 

Any idea where the channel 67s will be going (and when)? They're on VHF 7 now if I recall, but I'm guessing they won't be staying there. It's unlikely any move will improve reception here, but of all the channels that are iffy in T.O. (26, 51, etc.) this is the one I'd most like to get on a regular basis, thanks to MeTV. Alas, as long as it's an LPTV, there's not a lot of chance of that.  

     Thread Starter
 

August 1, 2019 6:00 pm  #54


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

So how come I couldn't get it until I rescanned on 23 and my DVR said "6 new channels found?" That's why I thought the change had been made. Very odd, since I've had it tuned in for years. Thanks for the update in any case. A very weird set of circumstances at play here. I will rescan for 24 over the weekend and hope it's one of those days when it's coming in.

I wasn't aware that WNLO was going back to Grand Island - that's very good news, since the move to Colden has resulted in a less stable signal into Toronto. As stated before, it used to be one of the strongest ones into the GTA from across the border. 

Any idea where the channel 67s will be going (and when)? They're on VHF 7 now if I recall, but I'm guessing they won't be staying there. It's unlikely any move will improve reception here, but of all the channels that are iffy in T.O. (26, 51, etc.) this is the one I'd most like to get on a regular basis, thanks to MeTV. Alas, as long as it's an LPTV, there's not a lot of chance of that.  

Sorry a typo. Did not mean to get you hopes up.  It is WNYO (not WNLO) that is going to Grand Island.  WNYO is Ch. 49 and owned by Sinclair that also owns WUTV.  the plan is to co-locate on WUTV's tower.  So there should be an improvement in Toronto,.  See earlier post about WNYO going ATSC-3.   That would remove the signal from 100% of installed TV's.

The Colden issue is far from final.   At the current antenna height, the horizon would not be very far out.  At the top of the tower, the horizon will extend considerably.   WIVB was consistently reliable in mid-town from I believe the early 2000's to 2018 from that tower so I don't see any reason why the signal, when the tower work is completed, and power goes back to 800KW, at 1,362 feet, would not have the same reliability in Toronto.

If my memory - which is not as good as it used to be, is correct, WIVB was the first station in this region, to transmit in HD, - probably around the early 2000's - I bought an HD tuner module in Arizona to upgrade a receiver as there were no HD tuners in TV sets (or satellite receivers) at that time.   The chief engineer at WIVB at that time, phoned me to alert me the day they started testing HD transmissions.   From my receiving site, WIVB at Colden was less prone to fade-outs due to weather conditions. The tuner module was way less sensitive than today's TVs and CFTO did me no favours when it initially transmitted on Ch. 40, but WIVB hung in there, from Colden.

Channel 67- WBZZ is staying on Channel 7.  One of the inducements for it to retain spectrum was for the owners to move to high-band VHF.  They are not required to make any changes during this, or any future phase of re-pack.  No changes to power or tower have been applied for.   

Without shilling, I have seen a significant improvement of WGRZ and WKBW by replacing an existing antenna with the Antenna Direct 91XG which is available in Canada from Amazon Prime for under $80 delivered to your home or office.  It is a well-made antenna with significant gain.   I anticipate a very stable signal from WNLO/WIVB using the antenna direct yagi.


 

Last edited by tvguy (August 1, 2019 6:03 pm)

 

August 1, 2019 6:56 pm  #55


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Thank you for the detailed answer - except for the typo! That one hurt! I'd rather not lose any signals, but I can't recall the last time I watched WNYO. There's simply no programming on "MyTV" that's worth it. Of course, that could change in the future.

I'm glad to hear things may improve for WIVB/WNLO. The former was a constant issue for me before they temporarily relocated it to the WNLO tower, and I was sorry to see that go. So far, conditions have been good enough that it hasn't been an issue. We'll see what the fall and winter brings, although given my past experience, I think I already know. 

My current antenna is admittedly pretty old but it's up high on a rotor on a tower attached to my house. There's an amplifier there, too and it generally works well. But I'm willing to consider anything that could improve it. As I'm sure you can appreciate, the rotor is a handy tool when chasing these sometimes elusive signals and even a slight adjustment can make a huge difference.  I wonder how ATSC-3 will affect propagation if at all. 

I've come to believe that at some point in my lifetime, OTA TV will disappear, replaced entirely by streaming. I hope that day isn't soon. I will always find free better than fee! 

     Thread Starter
 

August 1, 2019 7:12 pm  #56


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I finally got around to rescanning my TVs following this week's repack (location: Cabbagetown in Toronto)

Super annoyed as always that both sets have no facility for manually adding channels. You have to rescan the whole lot, and if you miss one, rescan again when the conditions are better, and hope you do not lose a channel you had before.

The livingroom set, using an 8-bay rooftop antenna, fared really well. All the Buffalo suspects were locked in: WGRZ, WIVB, WKBW, WNED, WUTV, WNLO and even the 51-ION in Batavia which is hit and (mostly) miss came in on this evening's scan. All the Toronto channels came in, except oddly for the pirate Star Ray on 15, which is usually rock solid. I got nothing from Hamilton but have never had much luck with that and my antenna is aimed at Buffalo.

the upstairs set, using one of those antennas that are kind of gun-shaped with a set of smaller and smaller fins and a powered amplifier, fared less well. It did not pick up WIVB, WNLO or WUTV.

If I ever upgrade one or both of those TVs, I will definitely make sure the tuning interface includes manual add and remove.

 

August 1, 2019 7:43 pm  #57


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

6079 Smith W wrote:

If I ever upgrade one or both of those TVs, I will definitely make sure the tuning interface includes manual add and remove.

I'm not entirely sure that will make any difference, although I will bow to the superior knowledge of those who gather here. My DVRs have the manual scan option and my TVs have the option to hide and show any channels I choose. But once they're in the memory, it does seem they can't be wiped out without starting from scratch. 

All of them would not recognize the new channel placements once the big move took place this week. For instance, I was getting Charge TV, Channel 29.3 on 4.1, and no amount of manual rescanning would fix it. Similarly, I was getting WUTV on Channel 23 and I couldn't regain WNLO. 

In the end, I reluctantly had to do a complete rescan on everything, losing all the Channel 67 stuff in my program guide, because it wasn't coming in at the time. I'm not sure what will happen when ION goes and I have to go through this all over again. 

     Thread Starter
 

August 2, 2019 4:10 pm  #58


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

WPXJ is transmitting on Ch. 24 as of 4 pm Friday.  Much improved signal in mid-town Toronto.  Looking forward to Law & Order marathons.

 

August 2, 2019 4:16 pm  #59


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Wow. Just looked at it on Channel 23 and it was breaking up. Rescanned for 24 and the difference is palpable here in northern North York. At least one good thing appears to have come out of all these musical chairs! 

     Thread Starter
 

August 3, 2019 7:44 am  #60


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Phase 4 is now over.  The next phase that will impact Buffalo stations is in Feb-March 2020.
At that time, WNED will move to Ch. 31,  WKBW will move to Ch. 34 and WNYO (MyTV) now on Ch. 49 will move to Ch. 16 - and relocate to Grand Island.

I checked Phase 8 of the repack and WNYO-TV (MyTV) Ch. 49 does not move until then.  Sorry I may have mis-read one of the repack sites and suggested it would move yesterday.    In any event, City, Global, and the Omni TV stations will also move in Phase 8.   But in terms of antenna re-aiming, the big winner in Phase 4 was Ion TV (Ch. 51) which is much more stable here.  Over the next weeks or months, probably before fall sets in, we will have the final verdict on WNLO/WIVB when they install their new antenna.  Also expect a possible signal adjustment when WUTV relocates back to their own tower on Whitehaven Road on Grand Island.  They are temporarily on the (former) WNLO/WIVB Grand Island tower.