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May 27, 2019 9:41 pm  #1


Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Those who depend on an antenna for signals from Buffalo may want this head’s up: another series of Buffalo repack phases is coming over the next month or so, and it will involve at least one important channel – the local Fox affiliate.
 
According to the schedule, the changes will happen anytime between June 22 and August 2nd. What’s moving where? Here’s the list:
 
WUTV, Fox: Going from channel 14 to channel 36. I believe their new transmitter position will be the same as the old WIVB one in Colden, N.Y. – a station I always had trouble getting, so I’m worried about losing it on bad nights. Will it still be as strong into Toronto? We’ll know soon. I haven’t seen any on-air announcements yet, but I expect they’ll do something to inform viewers of the change before it happens.
 
WNYB, TCT.: Not that everyone can get or ever watches the religious broadcaster on channel 26, but it may be even less likely you’ll get it after the move. The station is going from its current position to VHF channel 5, which may make it much harder to get than it already is.
 
WPXJ, Ion: Another hit or miss (mostly miss) signal into Toronto, this is the station that you can sometimes get when the weather is good on channel 51. It also has about six subcarriers attached to it. It will be leaving channel 23 and going next door to 24.
 
CITS, Crossroads TV: The Hamilton-based home of “Jeopardy” in Toronto is moving from channel 36 to channel 14. We should all be able to continue receiving it without much trouble.   
 
There’s more coming but not for a while. WKBW, WNED and WNYO (channel 49) are all supposed to switch their signals sometime between Jan. 18 and March 13 of next year. Global, the OMNIs and City TV will all be on the move to new homes between May and July of 2020. Again, no one here should have any problem with the new signals, it will just mean a rescan of your various TVs.
 
Those who get their broadcast signals on cable or satellite won’t be affected.

 

May 27, 2019 11:38 pm  #2


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

I might be wrong, but I recall reading that WIVB/WNLO would be vacating the former Buffalo PBS tower on Grand Island, and would be returning to the WIVB tower in Colden, N.Y.  ?  Perhaps I was reading some earlier information which has since changed.

Also, CITS-HD 36  will be commencing work on their Tx facilities in early July.  CTS shares a combiner and antenna facility with CHCH on the Stoney Creek tower.

 

 

May 28, 2019 8:37 am  #3


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Great post and good things to know for us OTA's.  I heard that WPXJ Ion would be also moving to the WNYO (49) tower and there is a delay right now due to awaiting for their equipment.   If this holds true, the station will be easier to receive for us than where it is now between buffalo and Rochester.

 

May 28, 2019 9:20 am  #4


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

WNLO/WIVB and WUTV have requested (but have not yet been granted) FCC permission to swap their RF channel positions and transmitter locations post-repack. 

The plan is to put WNLO/WIVB on RF 36 from the Colden site where WIVB's transmitter was until it began channel-sharing with WNLO. That will indeed make it a tougher signal in Toronto, though it will mean easier reception for US viewers south and east of Buffalo. 

WUTV would then take WNLO/WIVB's RF 32 position, though it will move from WNED's Grand Island tower half a mile west to the existing WUTV tower - which is also where WNYO will move from its existing tower in Wyoming County, fairly far east of Buffalo. And yes, WPXJ will then move from its tower in Pavilion westward to the current WNYO tower. 

 

May 28, 2019 9:23 am  #5


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

A source at WUTV just told me there's a slight reprieve from the channel migration. The target date for the change is now August 2nd, the final day of the repack phase, and they'll be running on air announcements reminding viewers about the move before it happens. 

Glen Warren wrote:

I might be wrong, but I recall reading that WIVB/WNLO would be vacating the former Buffalo PBS tower on Grand Island, and would be returning to the WIVB tower in Colden, N.Y.  ?  Perhaps I was reading some earlier information which has since changed. 

He confirmed that they would be moving to the old WIVB tower in Colden, which worries me because I had trouble getting Channel 4 when they were located there. But the good news is that's only temporary and at some point, they will be moving back to Grand Island. He just couldn't say when. 

Of course the move of WUTV to channel 36 will mean CTS will have to be off there before it happens and there's a chance both will switch on the same date. All in all a busy late summer for rescanning for those of us with antennas. 

     Thread Starter
 

May 28, 2019 11:46 am  #6


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

fybush wrote:

WNLO/WIVB and WUTV have requested (but have not yet been granted) FCC permission to swap their RF channel positions and transmitter locations post-repack. 

The plan is to put WNLO/WIVB on RF 36 from the Colden site where WIVB's transmitter was until it began channel-sharing with WNLO. That will indeed make it a tougher signal in Toronto, though it will mean easier reception for US viewers south and east of Buffalo. 

WUTV would then take WNLO/WIVB's RF 32 position, though it will move from WNED's Grand Island tower half a mile west to the existing WUTV tower - which is also where WNYO will move from its existing tower in Wyoming County, fairly far east of Buffalo. And yes, WPXJ will then move from its tower in Pavilion westward to the current WNYO tower. 

My WUTV source didn't mention this, but perhaps it's in their future plans. I was only asking about the switch to 36. He didn't talk about another channel change when they eventually go back to Grand Island but I suppose it's contingent on getting permission for all the swapping. What a mess this whole thing is. 

I believe this is the proposal Scott is referrring to. 

My source told me that when the stations in the U.S. went HD, everyone expected that would be the end of it. But then came the spectrum sale to free up space for cell phone companies and now it's hard to tell who's going where, even with a scorecard.

This list is only for Buffalo, but of course many stations north of the border will be moving all over the place, too.  

     Thread Starter
 

May 28, 2019 11:47 am  #7


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

I know this is confusing but didn't Scott say WUTV is moving to channel 32? As I understand it, OTA viewers in the GTA will receive WUTV roughly as well as we currently receive WIVB/WLNO.

You'll receive WUTV roughly as well as you currently receive WUTV. Whether it goes to 36 (as originally proposed) or to 32 (as the channel-swap petition requested), WUTV will be at the same Grand Island facility it's been at, at the same height, with a power level calculated to replicate its current coverage on RF 14.

And CTS gets no reprieve - it has to move off 36 to free that channel for use in the US by *someone,* whether it's WUTV or WNLO/WIVB. And it can't go to 14 without WUTV moving, whether that ends up being to 36 or to 32. 

Also, first I've heard of WIVB/WLNO having long term plans to return to Grand Island at some point. That is encouraging for us here in the GTA.

Don't get encouraged. WIVB/WNLO isn't returning to Grand Island. They serve about 500,000 more (monetizable) US viewers from the Colden site than they would from Grand Island. And they own the Colden tower instead of having to pay hefty rent to WNED on Grand Island. Their move to Colden is a win-win for everyone except Canadian viewers. 

 

May 28, 2019 11:52 am  #8


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

fybush wrote:

Don't get encouraged. WIVB/WNLO isn't returning to Grand Island. They serve about 500,000 more (monetizable) US viewers from the Colden site than they would from Grand Island. And they own the Colden tower instead of having to pay hefty rent to WNED on Grand Island. Their move to Colden is a win-win for everyone except Canadian viewers. 

And that's what I was afraid of. I finally got a reliable signal from WIVB when they switched and the difference has been palpable. I hate to go back to those ugly days where it was hit and miss. Plus WNLO is probably one of the most reliable signals into Toronto. Are they going to diminish here, too?

Scott, I wonder - I know the WKBW channel swap isn't until 2020, but I have frequent dropout problems with them, as well. Do you know if their move will make things better, worse or keep them about the same for those of us in the GTA?  

     Thread Starter
 

May 28, 2019 1:33 pm  #9


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

RadioActive wrote:

fybush wrote:

Don't get encouraged. WIVB/WNLO isn't returning to Grand Island. They serve about 500,000 more (monetizable) US viewers from the Colden site than they would from Grand Island. And they own the Colden tower instead of having to pay hefty rent to WNED on Grand Island. Their move to Colden is a win-win for everyone except Canadian viewers. 

And that's what I was afraid of. I finally got a reliable signal from WIVB when they switched and the difference has been palpable. I hate to go back to those ugly days where it was hit and miss. Plus WNLO is probably one of the most reliable signals into Toronto. Are they going to diminish here, too?

WNLO and WIVB are just different sets of bits on the same digital signal these days. While they're still technically separate licenses (which means they each get separate must-carry rights on cable and satellite, for instance), they are channel-sharing on what had been the WNLO facility. It's literally just that several of the program IDs on the stream of data coming out of that transmitter are labeled as 4.1 and 4.2. 

It was well worth it to Nexstar, which collected tens of millions of dollars for giving up its separate chunk of spectrum that WIVB used. And, yes, it means that when WIVB moves, it will do so in tandem with WNLO and both signals will diminish for you.

Scott, I wonder - I know the WKBW channel swap isn't until 2020, but I have frequent dropout problems with them, as well. Do you know if their move will make things better, worse or keep them about the same for those of us in the GTA?  

In general, if a station isn't moving transmitter sites, the aim of the repack is to keep signals as close to identical to the current ones as possible. So if WKBW is iffy for you now, it will be in 2020, too. 

But wait - there's yet another curveball coming: when over-the-air TV starts transitioning to the new ATSC 3.0 system, it will use a different modulation scheme (COFDM instead of QAM, if you want to get technical), which in theory will have better error correction and more robust decoding. So a signal that might not come in with ATSC 1.0 might be easier to decode in ATSC 3.0, assuming you get a receiver that can decode it (your current TV won't.)

And there's more! The transition to ATSC 3.0 comes with a whole new round of channel-sharing, because the FCC won't let stations turn off ATSC 1 service right away. So you might find that while WIVB and WNLO are still running 1.0 from Colden, they might launch 3.0 service by using some of WNED's spectrum from Grand Island. In that case, you might get their signals again. (WNED, meanwhile, would keep an ATSC 1 "nightlight" service going via the WIVB/WNLO signal from Colden.) 

Nothing is permanent these days. It's all in flux. Buckle in!

 

May 28, 2019 2:50 pm  #10


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Am I the only one who sometimes misses the old analog days? Sure there was ghosting and interference, but at least there was almost always a receivable signal!

     Thread Starter
 

May 28, 2019 11:49 pm  #11


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

fybush wrote:

...
But wait - there's yet another curveball coming: when over-the-air TV starts transitioning to the new ATSC 3.0 system, it will use a different modulation scheme (COFDM instead of QAM, if you want to get technical), which in theory will have better error correction and more robust decoding. So a signal that might not come in with ATSC 1.0 might be easier to decode in ATSC 3.0, assuming you get a receiver that can decode it (your current TV won't.)

OTA ATSC 1.0 uses the 8VSB serial modulation scheme.
64 QAM / QAM is used for digital cable.

ATSC 3.0 will be capable of UHD...  While some of the guys at work have rushed out on previous Black Friday or Boxing Day sales events a got a great deal on a UHD set (they call them 4K, but they are not really) , the early product/models that they have purchased have not been equipped with an ATSC 3.0 tuner. 

This is why I still have my 50" plasma set...  sure I've swapped out a couple of upper and lower sustain drivers (blown MOSFETs), but I see no point right now in spending the money on a new display without the capability of future ATSC 3.0 reception.

Besides, where is the "4K"  (its UHD) content?  Sports will be the natural...  and I think the next logical content stream will be drama, arts, and documentary programming on PBS in the United States. 

My wife and daughter watch The Bacheoler and The Bachlerotte, Big Brother and the lot...   UHD and ATSC 3.0 won't improve experience for that bunch of tripe....  
 

 

May 29, 2019 3:01 pm  #12


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Perhaps Scott Fybush can clarify.   WIVB-TV when it operated on Ch. 39 was licensed operate at 112KW ERP.   However it did have a construction permit (or two) to increase power at the colden NY site, One database shows a CP for 790 Kw.   WIVB was consistently better received in mid-town Toronto than WKBW and WGRZ from the "colden" site.  The Ch. 36 application would operate at 800 KW - which might provide some decent reception in the Toronto Area.

By contrast WKBW is only 358 KW,  and WGRZ is 480 KW.   Every KW counts when you're outside of the primary coverage area.

 

May 29, 2019 3:11 pm  #13


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

tvguy wrote:

Perhaps Scott Fybush can clarify.   WIVB-TV when it operated on Ch. 39 was licensed operate at 112KW ERP.   However it did have a construction permit (or two) to increase power at the colden NY site, One database shows a CP for 790 Kw.   WIVB was consistently better received in mid-town Toronto than WKBW and WGRZ from the "colden" site.  The Ch. 36 application would operate at 800 KW - which might provide some decent reception in the Toronto Area.

By contrast WKBW is only 358 KW,  and WGRZ is 480 KW.   Every KW counts when you're outside of the primary coverage area.

Is kilowatts higher than the analog watts rating - back in the day an analog VHF Channel 2 output of 100,000 video , 13,000 watts for example was considered very high power and the max allowed amount.  Does HD need more power in UHF?
 

 

May 29, 2019 4:53 pm  #14


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

kilo-watt is 1,000 watts.

So 358 KW = 358,000 watts.

Megawatt is 1 million watts.  Ch. 23/4 combo from grand island transmits at 1 megawatt.

 

May 29, 2019 5:22 pm  #15


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

tvguy wrote:

kilo-watt is 1,000 watts.

So 358 KW = 358,000 watts.

Megawatt is 1 million watts.  Ch. 23/4 combo from grand island transmits at 1 megawatt.

Wow so the RF levels are much higher and stronger than analog days.

 

May 29, 2019 5:52 pm  #16


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

I've just learned that one of the stations mentioned in my original post in this thread may be delayed in their repack transition. ION TV, which is seen on Channel 51 when we can even get them, has run into major troubles getting their new gear in place and has asked the FCC for an extension. 

For whatever it's worth, here's part of their letter to the FCC. 

"These equipment delays have resulted in technical construction challenges and significant repack delays. Thus, insufficient time will remain prior to the Phase 4 deadline to complete the extensive reconstruction required at WPXJ-TV’s post-repack facility.

"The best available option for WPXJ-TV to have a functional post-transition transmitter facility as of the Phase 4 Completion Date is to operate on its post-auction channel from an interim antenna. ION proposes to install a side-mount interim antenna at its primary tower site and configure it to operate on WPXJ-TV’s post-auction channel.

"WPXJ-TV will continue operating on its post-auction channel from the interim antenna until the main antenna is installed and made operational during the repack construction period."

     Thread Starter
 

May 29, 2019 9:07 pm  #17


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

markow202 wrote:

tvguy wrote:

kilo-watt is 1,000 watts.

So 358 KW = 358,000 watts.

Megawatt is 1 million watts.  Ch. 23/4 combo from grand island transmits at 1 megawatt.

Wow so the RF levels are much higher and stronger than analog days.

UHF propagation has always required more effective radiated power than VHF.  Most VHF low band stations were 100 kw or less. High band - chs. 7-13 were limited to around 300 KW, though this was also a factor of antenna height.  I believe that CHCH may have operated around 317 KW as a "grandfathered" VHF station.  1 million watts erp was not uncommon for UHF stations during the analogue days.

Wet tree leaves literally "suck up" UHF signals, while low-band VHF signals were virtually unaffected.

The most powerful signal in the 1990's that I can recall,  belonged to analogue WOTV (formerly WUHQ) Battle Creek, Michigan.  It operated on Ch. 41 with 5 million watts ERP.  

You probably appreciate, that at the time of conversion to digital, must VHF operators elected to move to UHF.   It's now a struggle for those remaining VHF operators, because very few people who receive OTA signals are equipped for VHF reception.  Channel 26 Jamestown, which has exceptional coverage will move down to Channel 5 this summer, after repack.   Good luck with that!

Last edited by tvguy (May 29, 2019 9:09 pm)

 

May 29, 2019 10:05 pm  #18


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

I still have a VHF head on my tower, but Channel 26 is so far away that I rarely receive it most days. (Not that I'd likely watch it in any event.)

I'm as far from an expert as you can get in the technical stuff, but I do know that HD signals are a fragile thing to begin with. They're either there and you're getting a perfect picture or they're not and you either get a black screen or a pixelated mess.

As far as propagation is concerned, analog was a lot more reliable for a distant signal, even if it didn't look as good when it finally reached your home. And you really can't DX HD very well, which I miss in the summer.

     Thread Starter
 

May 30, 2019 7:37 am  #19


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Living in West Oakville, my parents got  WNYB with a very reliable signal. However, 24/7 religious programming wasn't their thing. Of the rest of the Western New York signals, WIVB, WKBW, WNLO and WNED always came in at 100% WGRZ and WNYO were at 60% in tropho conditions. Normally in the 45-50% range. Surprisingly, WUTV was rarely above 60% despite their Grand Island transmitter. Perhaps because their entire signal is beamed south. The Batavia station and WBBZ  were available only when the weather conditions were perfect. The only "distant" digital stations ever received were WROC, WSTM and WWTI.

 

May 30, 2019 8:43 am  #20


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

That report is amazing to me, because where I am - in northern North York - WGRZ and WNYO (along with WNLO) are the strongest signals I get and rarely exhibit any weather-related outages. Yet in Oakville, you get the channels I often have trouble with. Interesting how much difference a relatively small geographic location shift can make.  

     Thread Starter
 

May 30, 2019 11:44 am  #21


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Thanks for the explanation!

The Channel 26 signal to me in Central Etobicoke with a DB4E outside comes in about 50% aswell as most of the Buffalo channels except 51-1 and WBBZ.

I'll get most of the time 6-1 CIII out of Paris (Global) with 1 bar of signal showing however the picture stays steady watchable.

In summer I will also pull in the Woodstock CITY TV repeater which is odd.

 

May 30, 2019 5:17 pm  #22


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

RadioActive wrote:

That report is amazing to me, because where I am - in northern North York - WGRZ and WNYO (along with WNLO) are the strongest signals I get and rarely exhibit any weather-related outages. Yet in Oakville, you get the channels I often have trouble with. Interesting how much difference a relatively small geographic location shift can make.  

Could be also the height of land slope in general.  North York is much higher than Oakville.  

I know in Etobicoke itself which stretches from lake ontario to Steeles Ave, it goes higher in elevation each km north you go on average gently.  

 

May 30, 2019 9:28 pm  #23


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

Several of the US stations have highly directional patterns, to protect other assignments.   In particular, several stations have "nulls" towards Toronto.   When repack occurs and the US stations move to their final assignments, several stations will be permitted to transition to omnidirectional patterns.   That will mean more even coverage throughout the GTA.  I had tried to upload some of the new coverage maps to this site, but not having any luck.  The difference is significant.

 

May 31, 2019 7:05 am  #24


Re: Antenna Alert: WUTV Buffalo Supposed To Be Switching Channels Soon

RadioActive wrote:

That report is amazing to me, because where I am - in northern North York - WGRZ and WNYO (along with WNLO) are the strongest signals I get and rarely exhibit any weather-related outages. Yet in Oakville, you get the channels I often have trouble with. Interesting how much difference a relatively small geographic location shift can make.  

My parents lived in SW Oakville [south of QEW, west of 3rd Line -, maybe one mile north of the lake] They had the best of both worlds. Two Channel Master 4221's on a 40' tower. One on a rotor for the bedroom. One stationary for the kitchen. In the basement, their 32+ year old Panasonic 20" was hooked up to a Shaw satellite dish.