Interesting notion. Times have certainly changed since some of us on the board first entered the biz. In the past, one could get hired without (mostly) any formal education and have an overwhelmingly fabulous career. Sadly, in my opinion, those days are, for the most part, gone. Now, the mega-HR departments are more interested in your degree(s) and time spent working in the northernmost regions of one-horse towns before they open your demo.

Now, I have a mixed feeling about this. Most mid-to-large markets no longer have the time or personnel to spoon feed all the directives necessary to work alone right from day one. But, think about how much more on-air types have to do today: they are live on one station, tracking one (or more) others, working the socials, keeping up with added demands of their position, hitting the on-locations, and, and, and..... It would take some kind of savant to successfully and thoroughly know all that without formal tutelage. 

The trouble with most broadcast "schools" (with the possible exception of Ryerson), is they are being taught on outdated equipment, software and protocols. Sure, it's "just enough" to get by, but it isn't perfect. And, then, we have the age-old "how do I get experience if nobody hires me" situation?

Interesting, indeed.

Well grilled cheese and cGrant are right.  When I started in Radio, I hung around the radio station.  Got to know the all night guy.  Try and find a all night radio show today.  When the all night guy (Ron Morey now one of the biggest voices in the U.S.) quit and the PD was looking for a replacement, Morey pointed to me.  Told the PD that he had been letting me on the air in the wee small hours and I was OK.  Terry Mann hired me; on the spot!  $75.00 bucks a week.  Lived with my parents thank goodness.  Well that was 1966.

For the past few decades PD's are looking for people that have taken; or are taking a course.  Ryerson was the only place to go; when I started in Radio.  Then came (in no particular order) Fanshaw, Humber, Seneca and I guess Mohawk.  The first person I saw hired out of Humber was the great Wayne Webster at Q-107.  He's still in the business today as MD at Boom; but not before years at The Mix, CHUM-FM and of course Q.  Don't believe he ever finished the course : >)  He was and is that good.

In other words, today you need to have at least finished a course; or are currently enrolled in one.  The really good one's never get to finish the course; because if they are interning, they are hired almost immediately.

 

When it comes to radio or TV, it’s hard to argue that experience is the best teacher.
 
Knowing how to use a board before I started in college was a huge boost to me. Looking back (as Don Daynard might say) I’m not sure how helpful taking the course was overall, beyond getting that big tip off about a job opening at one of the big Toronto stations. (That first interview did not go well at all, but I still landed the gig anyway. But that is a story for another day.)
 
My problem with the course (and I’m talking the late 70s here, so I know a lot has changed) was twofold. The first thing I remember involved putting the equipment over the teaching. In those days, we still used expensive reel-to-reel machines, tapes and grease pencils to mark the edit points. I never really knew how to do it beforehand, but it turned out the way they taught us was completely wrong.
 
I remember landing that first job and attempting to make an edit the way Ryerson’s instructors showed us. The people working at the station looked at me and said “what the hell are you doing?” It turns out the school had deliberately been showing us incorrectly because they wanted to stop wear and tear on the heads of the machine, which were pricey to replace with so much use, and so they gave us an “alternate” method – one that was completely useless in the real world.
 
I quickly learned how to do it right, and became something of an expert. But no thanks to them and it was pretty embarrassing, even for a newcomer.
 
And then there was the day we were in an assembly hall, when a person who worked in radio came in to talk to us. When it came to question and answer time, one student stood up and asked what seemed like a sensible query: just how hard is it to get that first job?
 
The woman (and I have no memory of who it was, just that she worked for a Toronto radio outlet) started out OK, but at one point got carried away and admitted to the assembled multitude that “getting that first job isn’t easy and there many not be that many positions open.”
 
She got a withering ‘if-looks-could-kill’ glance from the instructor, before muttering for all to hear, “I guess I wasn’t supposed to say that.” It was hard to believe anything that was spoken after and I realized she’d been told to talk up the positives of working in broadcasting, even if that meant lying to those eager young faces about some of the negatives.
 
And that’s about when I lost faith in the course, although I did graduate, because I wanted the degree. Fortunately, I was already working part time in a radio station’s newsroom by then and was learning far more there than I ever did in a single class. (Not to mention the incredible characters who worked at the place, which was an education in itself.)
 
I don’t begrudge going to Ryerson and I hope things are vastly different there now. But talk about bursting a bubble. It’s been more than 40 years and I still remember that moment in the lecture hall.

RadioActive wrote:

I'm pretty sure things are different these days, but when I started, the only question I was ever asked was "where else have you worked and what's your experience?" 

Ah, yes, times HAVE changed. Drastically. But, it's still same old-same old: how does one get the experience without being hired? And how do you get a foot in, without experience?

No offence, please, but comparing the 70's to today isn't even on the outer regions of the spectrum. Seriously. We all have "heard" of someone "lucking" into a shift at a station "just off the street". Most of those stories are, c'mon, exaggerations of the reality of the event.

Yes, I've been hard on people here about the past vs today, but, the difference is real. Very.
 

The broadcast education industry has turned into just that.  Ask the vast number of people who were teaching broadcasting at the college level why they have quit.  It's just turned into a sausage factory, grinding out "graduates" for mostly non existent jobs.  My classes usually were 40 "students" starting in the 70s.  The screening for acceptance was abysmal, focusing on high school grades, not personality, general knowledge, talent etc.  The job was simply to put bums in seats to collect the per student grants for the college and the tuition fees.  You knew that out of every class you had, you'd be lucky to get two people who actually would end up having a career in broadcasting, rising to the heights where they actually could make a living at it.  Most just thought it a glamorous easy fun rewarding thing to do but ended up being disappointed when they realized and so did prospective employers, that they didn't have the chops.  It's what caused me to stop doing this when you were no longer permitted to fail anyone, even if they did no work and produced no results for given assignments.  Even the award winning and my best radio news friend quit when the bureaucracy and idiotcracy became totally overbearing and time consuming when compared to actual instruction time.  There are fewer and fewer jobs in the business every day, whether it be radio, television or print journalism that continue to be taught simply to bring money into the college system.  Talent, smarts, the ability to communicate and to write brilliant clear copy should be the only qualifiers to enter such programs and to give yourself a chance at succeeding.  One of my jobs was to read the entrance application essays of prospective students, many of whom supposedly graduated high school with honours English.  Atrocious spelling, punctuation, grammar, syntax, improper sentence structure, more like reading a teen's texts to his or her friends.  But the only deal was, get us the 40 paying students to fill the class and pay the bills.
 

The other important question is, does it matter which school? 
Loyalist vs Humber... etc 

I'd like to toss in my 2 cents on this topic. I believe if someone has "that something" that you hear in a demo, it's worth investigating and spending the time because you BOTH benefit. Years ago, I needed a part time jock - put out a post and in return, got a pile of demos. I've always liked the idea of giving someone a chance like I was given years ago by JJ Johnson - so I make it a mission to return the favor, when I can.

One of the demos I received was one that was made by a woman at her kitchen table. It was poorly produced and sounded bad, but she "had something" in her voice. She had ZERO radio experience (no school) but a ton of passion and energy. I invited her in for an interview, explained our station's philosophy and tossed her on air for an overnight audition. I could tell after the first audition, she still "had something" worth investigating so I put her on for another night after some coaching.  

Long story short, I hired her part-time and she totally bloomed on air for the 2+ years she was with us. I'm quite proud of Meredith Shaw as she's now a full time personality at CHUM and is killing it in many other (somewhat related) areas professionally. So... it CAN be done as long as someone's willing to take a chance and find the time to coach the talent. Oh, you also need someone who has the passion, drive, sees the big picture and has the talent to push through and make it happen for themselves. 

As programmers we need to find the time to coach talent and take some chances - we owe it to the industry, AND it's part of our job! When you can witness someone transform/grow because of hard work and passion, it's an extremely rewarding moment.

Last edited by boom boy (June 26, 2018 3:23 pm)

in my opinion, when it comes to broadcasting (unlike many other "careers"), getting a degree will not put you ahead of any employment line.  more often than not, you'll still start off at the bottom... the very bottom. that doesn't mean you won't initially be required to make an "investment" (in order to get a paying gig down the line)  i'm talking about your time and not your money. being able to entertain (yes entertain) has nothing to do with grades, degrees, or certificates. after all, the "class clown" might be the next on-air star.
 

Last edited by the original hank (June 27, 2018 9:02 am)

Hey cGrant, I didn't suggest that broadcasting school could or somehow should "teach talent". My point was that unless you have the basic ingredients for on-air work, broadcast school is a waste of time, unless you want to work in the technical end of the business.

And Splunge you are so right about a good teacher. I had a chance to work with John Neville and John Dunsworth as profs, and they inspired and encouraged me, and I carried the skills they taught me into radio.

Here's a question. What are the requirements for getting in to the broadcasting programs at Ryerson, Fanshawe, and Humber?

You have LSAT's for admission to law school, and you have to audition to get into a theatre program... Radio is competitive and demanding, and requires specialized knowledge. I have no idea if you have to audition to get in to the radio program, but should you have to?

Last edited by betaylored (June 27, 2018 2:06 pm)

Thanks for the requirements cGrant. I went and checked out Fanshawe because that's where a lot of my pals went, and you don't have to audition to get a spot.

I think it would make sense to have two specific curriculum streams, one tech, and one directed at those who want to work on-air, with an audition as a requirement for a place in the on-air class. Tech students would have 70% tech class time, with 30% on-air time, and the "performance" class would have the 70/30 ratio with on-air getting the lion's share, but still getting enough board work so they could work at a station until an on-air position opened up.

A couple of times on the Stafford Show, I remember Mike and the callers discussing the trades/gifted streaming that happened in Ontario high schools years ago, and it seems to have been a practical approach.

Last edited by betaylored (June 27, 2018 10:59 pm)