The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Ex.-T.O. Morning Man Losing Gig As Vancouver Station Shutting Down

RadioActive · April 17, 2018 8:22 am

A former Toronto morning man is among those losing their gigs after a relatively new radio station in Vancouver announced it was going silent at the end of the month. Roundhouse Radio was an experiment of a sort, a kind of eclectic community outlet that wasn't designed to appeal to the masses and found a following because of it. But it wasn't enough to keep it going.

Among the casualties - morning man and (one time SOWNY poster) Gene Valaitis, who also did the AM drive at several Toronto radio stations in years past, including CFTR and Q107. Roundhouse had a lot to overcome - it was a low-powered independent floating in a sea of high financed corporate statons in one of the major markets of Canada.

Barring any last minute huge cash infusions, it will sign off for good on April 30th.

Vancouver indie station Roundhouse Radio will shut down after 30-month run

Vancouver's Roundhouse Radio needs cash injection or it will close down at the end of April

cGrant · April 17, 2018 8:55 am

One could argue that audiences don't want "different" -- they want what corporate radio is giving them. I guess the Illuminati of this board are wrong. Right?! 😳

Radiowiz · April 17, 2018 9:21 am

cGrant wrote:
One could argue that audiences don't want "different" -- they want what corporate radio is giving them. I guess the Illuminati of this board are wrong. Right?! 😳

Wrong. People who want something different want something on the left, not the right.

cGrant · April 17, 2018 9:28 am

Radiowiz wrote:
People who want something different want something on the left, not the right.

Yes, and those people have the taxpayer-funded CBC.

Dial Twister · April 17, 2018 10:39 am

Any "on the right" in this list?

List of Certified Independent Production Funds

Bell Fund
Supports the development and production of cross-platform digital media and television. The television component must be designated as a drama, variety, documentary, lifestyle, reality, or children's/youth program.

Cogeco Program Development Fund
Eligible productions include dramatic television series, movies of the week or two-part mini-series for prime-time broadcast in English or French.

Independent Production Fund
Supports the production of Canadian television dramatic series, including dramatic series for children, for private sector broadcasters.

Le Fonds Harold Greenberg
Supports the production of English and Fench films, as well as French documentaries, musicals, special events and videoclips.

Nova Scotia Independent Production Fund
Nova Scotia Independent Production Fund Scotia through The Eastlink TV Independent Production Fund program supports the production of Canadian television animation and /or live action TV series.

Quebecor Fund
Quebecor Fund promotes the production of projects that include both:

the production of Canadian content for television broadcasting. Productions may take the form of television production, film or event. Television broadcasting, however, is systematic;
production of interactive multimedia components declined from those productions and using information technologies and communication platforms such as high speed internet, interactive TV, video on demand and / or various fixed or mobile terminals.
Quebecor Fund currently manages two programs:
The Main Television Production Assistance Program (MPAP);
The Event and Film Production Assistance Program(EFPAP).

Remstar's Fund
Remstar’s Fund supports the creation, the production, the distribution and the promotion in Canada of new artistic and cultural works of all kinds for distribution on television and other digital media platforms, particularly the production of music video and Canadian programming that promote the musical talent.

Rogers Documentary Fund
Provides financial support for Canadian documentary programming in both official languages.

Rogers Cable Network Fund
Provides equity financing for Canadian television programs which have a first window on one of Canada's specialty programming services.

Saskatchewan Film and Video Development Corporation (SaskFilm)
Supports the film, video and new media community of Saskatchewan to enhance the quality, quantity and marketability of its products and resources.

Eligible projects include made-for-TV movies and series; short-form dramatic, animated, and children's programming; and documentaries, educational, experimental, variety, and non-theatrical films and television programs.

Shaw Rocket Fund
(Formerly known as Shaw Television Broadcast Fund)
Provides equity financing for the production of children, youth and family television programming. Fiction and non-fiction, including series, pilots, specials, documentaries, variety, animation and TV movies are eligible. Preference is given to productions in the English, French or Aboriginal languages.

Small Market Local Programming Fund
Assists the small market, independently owned television stations identified by the Commission in Public Notice CRTC 2003-37 in meeting their commitments to local programming.

The TELUS Fund
The TELUS Fund finances the creation of content portraying social and technological innovation in the field of health and wellness.

Telefilm Canada
The Fund has two streams: one funds original first works made by young filmmakers and sees that these projects benefit from innovative distribution and marketing. The other stream supports productions from well-known filmmakers in addition to providing them wider international promotion and distribution.

SOURCE: https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/general/cipfund.htm

Radiowiz · April 17, 2018 11:18 am

cGrant wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:
People who want something different want something on the left, not the right.
Yes, and those people have the taxpayer-funded CBC.

CBC radio is garbage and very boring. If the left could talk like the right does (in left fashion) you would have a better point.

Last edited by Radiowiz (April 17, 2018 11:19 am)

Hansa · April 17, 2018 11:28 am

Radiowiz wrote:
cGrant wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:
People who want something different want something on the left, not the right.
Yes, and those people have the taxpayer-funded CBC.

CBC radio is garbage and very boring. If the left could talk like the right does (in left fashion) you would have a better point.

Which is why Metro Morning beats the pants off of RB and 640?

Last edited by Hansa (April 17, 2018 11:29 am)

cGrant · April 17, 2018 11:30 am

Radiowiz wrote:
CBC radio is garbage and very boring. If the left could talk like the right does (in left fashion

Agreed on two points: The CBC is garbage.
And, the left is boring. They whine and bleed for the perceived oppressed (which is everyone and everything in their rose-colored eyes). Spend, spend and more spend is their mantra. Ironic, isn't it? A taxpayer-sucking entity supporting more tax sucking.

That said, you wanted a leftist station and I provided one. After all, we're all held hostage into paying for that boredom and garbage.

cGrant · April 17, 2018 11:35 am

Hansa wrote:
Which is why Metro Morning beats the pants off of RB and 640?

Gee, I wonder why? Toronto, politically IS left, as is the CBC.

Beyond that, when you're funded by unlimited tax dollars, you can hire umpteen producers and board bunnies to power your show.

Also, ratings don't matter at CBC-1. They don't air ads. So, why do they participate in the ratings war?

Hansa · April 17, 2018 12:52 pm

cGrant wrote:
Hansa wrote:
Which is why Metro Morning beats the pants off of RB and 640?
Gee, I wonder why? Toronto, politically IS left, as is the CBC.

Beyond that, when you're funded by unlimited tax dollars, you can hire umpteen producers and board bunnies to power your show.

Also, ratings don't matter at CBC-1. They don't air ads. So, why do they participate in the ratings war?

Commercial Talk radio is predominantly right wing even though most people in Canada are not. Maybe if there was more political diversity on the air there would be a bigger audience overall?

Hansa · April 17, 2018 1:06 pm

I don't think it's coincidental that CFRB lost its number one dominance around the time they took a hard right turn, particularly in the mornings. Not many people want to listen to a radio version of the Toronto Sun.

April 17, 2018 1:21 pm

Hansa wrote:
CFRB lost its number one dominance around the time they took a hard right turn, particularly in the mornings

John Moore?

cGrant · April 17, 2018 1:24 pm

Hansa wrote:
I don't think it's coincidental that CFRB lost its number one dominance around the time they took a hard right turn, particularly in the mornings.

You think John Moore is "hard right"? Seriously?! I would genuinely be terrified to know what you consider "the left".

Hansa · April 17, 2018 1:51 pm

cGrant wrote:
Hansa wrote:
I don't think it's coincidental that CFRB lost its number one dominance around the time they took a hard right turn, particularly in the mornings.
You think John Moore is "hard right"? Seriously?! I would genuinely be terrified to know what you consider "the left".

I think John Moore is the exception but for some years now almost every weekday show on RB has a conservative skew. You can't have Bill Carroll and Jerry Agar as morning men in the GTA and expect to be where most of the population is.

cGrant · April 17, 2018 2:06 pm

Hansa wrote:
cGrant wrote:
Hansa wrote:
I don't think it's coincidental that CFRB lost its number one dominance around the time they took a hard right turn, particularly in the mornings.
You think John Moore is "hard right"? Seriously?! I would genuinely be terrified to know what you consider "the left".
I think John Moore is the exception but for some years now almost every weekday show on RB has a conservative skew. You can't have Bill Carroll and Jerry Agar as morning men in the GTA and expect to be where most of the population is.

I'm confused: you wrote "particularly in the mornings" and then you wrote "John Moore is the exception". Well, which is it?

In this thread, we are talking about current programming and ratings, and you bring up the past, mentioning Bill Carroll and Jerry Agar (whom, to my knowledge was never RB's "morning man"). Yes, he does a show FOLLOWING Moore, but, "morning man" is specific to the morning drive slot.

Hansa · April 17, 2018 2:33 pm

As I recall, Agar was given the morning drive show in 2010 when Carroll moved to LA. I think he only lasted a few months before they moved him back to 9 am.

cGrant · April 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Hansa wrote:
As I recall, Agar was given the morning drive show in 2010 when Carroll moved to LA. I think he only lasted a few months before they moved him back to 9 am.

Is it possible you are confusing Jerry with Dave?

Peter the K · April 17, 2018 5:39 pm

Hansa wrote:
As I recall, Agar was given the morning drive show in 2010 when Carroll moved to LA. I think he only lasted a few months before they moved him back to 9 am.

Not quite.

Bill Carroll took over mornings from the "retiring" Ted Woloshyn.
Then in 2009 Bill Carroll moved to 9-1 and John Moore took over mornings.
In 2010 Carroll moved to L.A. and Jerry Agar took over from Bill Carroll

Agar never did mornings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFRB#Programming

cGrant · April 17, 2018 5:48 pm

Peter the K wrote:
Hansa wrote:
As I recall, Agar was given the morning drive show in 2010 when Carroll moved to LA. I think he only lasted a few months before they moved him back to 9 am.
Not quite.

Bill Carroll took over mornings from the "retiring" Ted Woloshyn.
Then in 2009 Bill Carroll moved to 9-1 and John Moore took over mornings.
In 2010 Carroll moved to L.A. and Jerry Agar took over from Bill Carroll

Agar never did mornings.

I didn't think he did. That said, to label John Moore as extreme right is absurd.

As an aside, Ted Woloshyn should have stayed "retired". RB's entire weekend line-up is complete garbage, with the exception of their upcoming morning show, to be hosted by Dave Trafford. All their shilled programming is an embarrassment. The trivia show is an exercise in ridiculous garbage. The ONLY thing about the wasteland that is their weekend line-up is it's moderately better than 640's rubbish... but, not by much.

Hansa · April 17, 2018 6:26 pm

"=12px to label John Moore as extreme right is absurd."

Good thing NOBODY did that then, eh?

cGrant · April 17, 2018 6:46 pm

Hansa wrote:
"=12px to label John Moore as extreme right is absurd."

Good thing NOBODY did that then, eh?

YOU DID.

cGrant wrote:
Hansa wrote:
I don't think it's coincidental that CFRB lost its number one dominance around the time they took a hard right turn, particularly in the mornings.
You think John Moore is "hard right"? Seriously?! I would genuinely be terrified to know what you consider "the left".

Mike Cleaver · April 17, 2018 9:50 pm

I've known Don Shafer since he was a jock at CHUM-FM in the 70's.
He was out of radio for a long time after that and then showed up as Manager of a couple of Stations in Kelowna early in this century.
When he announced he was going to start a new station in Vancouver, I emailed him and offered to do the technical work for him and also offered my experience and advice to start small until he could determine if there was an audience for what he was proposing.
Vancouver is a heavily saturated radio market with all the big money players involved.
Trying to break into the market without a full powered station is extremely risky.
In my email, I suggested that he lease space at the top of one of the downtown towers, many of which were hungry for clients, build a control room, a talk studio and a production control so the transmitter could be located on the roof along with the antenna, cutting the cost of STLs, lines etc., and some office space.
I told him the technical equipment and installation would cost less than a quarter million dollars.
I never received a reply.
Instead, they bought a building in the very worst part of downtown near the container port, totally renovated the building with very expensive materials, including bullet proof glass and very expensive equipment package from I believe, a Winnipeg company.
The on air signal only reaches a very limited area of downtown.
The investors never saw a nickle in return for all the money they poured into this project and finally got tired of throwing their money away.
I feel for the people employed there who now have lost jobs.
They had some very talented people but it also was the only Canadian station I can remember that had zero ratings from Numeris.
When you are trying to compete with the huge corporations with buckets full of money obtained by ripping off their internet and cell phone customers, you need to start small and see if your idea works.
If it doesn't, you cut your losses and get out.
Better to lose a quarter million dollars than many times that.

Last edited by Mike Cleaver (April 18, 2018 2:19 am)

Radiowiz · April 17, 2018 11:16 pm

cGrant wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:
CBC radio is garbage and very boring. If the left could talk like the right does (in left fashion
Agreed on two points: The CBC is garbage.
And, the left is boring. They whine and bleed for the perceived oppressed (which is everyone and everything in their rose-colored eyes). Spend, spend and more spend is their mantra. Ironic, isn't it? A taxpayer-sucking entity supporting more tax sucking.

That said, you wanted a leftist station and I provided one. After all, we're all held hostage into paying for that boredom and garbage.

Both Toronto and Vancouver need a REAL centre/left radio station. Orange liberal radio would do quite well both places.
If there ever could be such a thing as an orange conservative, I'd be honored to be just that, but then again, (Federally) Where is Joe Clark today anyway?

Enough concern for what CBC is. Time for a little less of what CFRB and AM 640 are.
Same for Vancouver.
Less right winged talk more left leaning. Balance is also good.

Last edited by Radiowiz (April 17, 2018 11:19 pm)

cGrant · April 18, 2018 1:58 am

Radiowiz wrote:
Toronto ... need a REAL centre/left radio station. Orange liberal radio would do quite well.
Time for a little less of what CFRB and AM 640 are.
Less right winged talk more left leaning. Balance is also good.

Talk radio rule #1: Balance is boring. Listening to a host try to jive down the middle is sleepy-time radio.

Toronto cannot support a third talker. (Hell, it can't support two all-sports radio stations.) That said, one of the existing yakkers would have to rebrand. And, RB is beyond unlikely to swerve that way anything in the near future.

That leaves 640. How they maintain such an expensive format (albeit having second, third and fourth-string hosts) with such low digits is beyond me, unless they are doing it for a write-off. But, it would take an incredible marketing budget to convince people to flock to it. With all the tweaks that station has done in recent years, it has cried wolf far too many times for the audience to flip the switcheroo in its favor.

As mentioned, the Mother Corp is left and tries to balance out to the centre. For the GTA, that's the best you'll get.

Radiowiz · April 19, 2018 5:52 am

cGrant wrote:
That leaves 640. How they maintain such an expensive format (albeit having second, third and fourth-string hosts) with such low digits is beyond me, unless they are doing it for a write-off.

Yes. It's a write off, and they get more money than the CBC for it.

Kilgore · April 20, 2018 6:17 am

Radiowiz wrote:
It's a write off

You seem to be stating that losing money is a good thing when it comes to broadcasters. Corus Entertainment shares opened @ $6.69 and closed @ $6.46 yesterday. Is that because AM-640 isn't losing enough dough?