The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Bell Wants To Put Its CFTO Orillia Signal Onto CKVR's Antenna

RadioActive · October 15, 2026 4:13 pm

The company has applied to the CRTC to be able to move its CFTO-DT signal on Channel 21, serving Orillia, onto its current transmitter that carries CKVR. It claims the viewing area won't be affected and notes the cost of servicing both of them is getting too expensive. It also asks the Commission not to force it to apply for a new licence, since it's the same station just on a different tower in a new location.

As for the quality of the picture?

"Bell Media submits that multiplexing will not have a negative effect on the video quality of either signal. Both signals will remain in high definition and will continue to offer high-quality programming to Canadians."

Currently, both signals are transmitted over the air in high definition at 1080i. Following the proposed multiplexing arrangement, both signals will be transmitted in 720p high-definition: Both stations will therefore keep their high-definition broadcasts.

The move to 720p will result in a reduction of the number of resolution lines while at the same time, it will enable the use of a progressive scanning method optimized for smooth motion.

How much difference a viewer perceives between 1080i and 720p depends on the size and quality of the television set, and on the viewer's angle and distance from the screen. While the 720p image is smaller than 1080i, the progressive image will be sharper than an interlaced one, which is what is currently available to CKVR-DT and CFTO-DT’s viewers. Bell Media therefore expects that the change will not be noticed by most over-the-air viewers."

Friday is the final day for interventions, although why there would be any, I'm not sure. If you live up there and watch OTA, Bell is promising you likely won't see any difference.

rk12 · October 15, 2026 5:07 pm

There is no way Bell can say the coverage area will be similar.Channel 21 transmits 20km north of Orillia.CKVR barely reaches CFTO repeaters location..Those in Gravenhurst,Bracebrace will likely lose reception.Would this not give CTV two English stations in same market ?

markow202 · October 15, 2026 5:54 pm

rk12 wrote:
There is no way Bell can say the coverage area will be similar.Channel 21 transmits 20km north of Orillia.CKVR barely reaches CFTO repeaters location..Those in Gravenhurst,Bracebrace will likely lose reception.Would this not give CTV two English stations in same market ?

I was just going to say this as I live in Barrie and for some reason maybe im too close but CKVR even within the city itself is finniky. I can't receive the "Orillia" (in which that repeater for Channel 21 CFTO) is in Severn Falls area and serves mostly the southern Muskoka region. If this happens, would it be on CKVR's same channel 3 or a totally different antenna?

Can the link to this CRTC application be posted on this thread?

Last edited by markow202 (October 15, 2026 5:55 pm)

RadioActive · October 15, 2026 6:02 pm

It's a bit awkward, because you need to download a file to your computer as opposed to just a web page, but you can find the link here.

markow202 · October 16, 2026 9:47 am

Thanks Radioactive. I dont see any reasons why CRTC would not approve this. The only reason is coverage will not be the same in terms of reliability. Back when CKVR was analog the signal went no issues all the way to Parry Sound but now it doesnt reliably reach southern Muskoka unless you have a rooftop rig. Its also rare to see combined stations on one channel in Canada....this is a US thing like the Buffalo channels so thats a first!

Also they are blaming the age of the current CFTO 21 "Orillia" rebroadcaster - 30 year old tower and converted to digital during covid...seems like it would have been maintained meanwhile current CKVR tower was put up in late 70s, but yes thats only 1 site now to maintain.

Prior to digital, Barrie tower carried CKVR atop, CBC english and CBC French.

Last edited by markow202 (October 16, 2026 9:50 am)

andysradio · October 16, 2026 12:39 pm

Bell should take that 15 year-old digital transmitter in Severn Falls and move it to Sudbury - an originating station still analog. Yes a new antenna would be needed.

darcyh · October 17, 2026 10:24 am

How many people actually receive the over the air (OTA) signal? I'm guessing not too many.

Given how much electricity these transmitters use I'm surprised any OTA transmitters are still in use in rural areas.

BringBackFreeFormFM · October 17, 2026 12:01 pm

andysradio wrote:
Bell should take that 15 year-old digital transmitter in Severn Falls and move it to Sudbury - an originating station still analog. Yes a new antenna would be needed.

I "vote" for that option.

In Sudbury we have only two OTA stations - the other being Global. But Global is only a repeater of The Toronto feed. They have no presence here in the north - no local news, etcetera, as opposed to CTV North.

And, we lost CHCH's re-transmitter mayn years ago.

Glen Warren · October 17, 2026 1:20 pm

I think the real reason for Bell wanting to relocate the CFTO 21 transmitter to the CKVR tower is due to the increasing population growth in Barrie and surrounding areas.

Also, what is the reliability/quality of the main CFTO-DT signal from the CN Tower up towards Barrie?
Barrie/Newmarket is a Rogers cable area. If cord cutters are ditching Rogers, moving the transmitter south with a new antenna or combiner would be a relatively inexpensive way to ensure that viewers still receive the CFTO-DT signal.

Note that CFTO-DT moved to VHF ch. 8 during the ATSC 3.0 repack (if not before). CFTO-DT remains on virtual channel 9.

rk12 · October 17, 2026 3:50 pm

CTV/Bell does not care reception .CFTO Toronto was over 300kw in analog days and blasted to Orillia .Today 10KW digital hardly reaches Barrie.

markow202 · October 17, 2026 4:23 pm

Yes I remember when CFTO Toronto channel 9 signal was analog and reached to our cottage although a bit fuzzy during the day but clear at night in Port Severn area. Then came the repeater on 21.

Wouldn’t having it on CKVR tower cross paths with the Toronto signal? Someone tuning in in let’s say Aurora area would receive Toronto and Barrie signal of the same channel unless directional.

rk12 · October 17, 2026 4:29 pm

CFTO Toronto moved to RF 8 at same time CKVR moved to RF 9.Complete waste of time.

markow202 · October 17, 2026 4:53 pm

Would they even need to climb the CKVR tower to make these changes if done?

Evuguy · October 17, 2026 10:02 pm

No changes are needed on the RF transmission side. The CFTO feed would be added to the existing transport stream aleady being broadcast on channel 9. The 19.4Mb/s bitrate available in this stream would now be split between CKVR and CFTO. They are reducing the picture size (resolution) from 1920x1080i to 1280x720p, meaning less bitrate needed for each to maintain a decent picture quality for both services.

It's a great cost saving idea as it eliminates having additional land, tower facilities, equipment, energy, etc. to operate the current CFTO-DT on 21. Alternately, Bell Media could keep the ch 21 facility and make it a repeater of the Barrie CKVR/CFTO multiplex. That could help extend CKVR's coverage north and help bring back the coverage they had with NTSC on ch3. Mind you, I'm not sure if there would be enough additional eyeballs to justify the cost of operating it.

Note that Corus did a double up with the CKWS Kingston signal, adding Global to that transport to (somewhat) make up for the loss of the 100kW Global NTSC signal on Ch 2, which was well to the north, near Denbigh, ON.

For CICI Sudbury (NTSC 5), no antenna change would be necessary if Bell Media decided to flash cut the analog signal to digital and keep it on channel 5. Global did this for a while with the Paris, ON transmitter, operating ATSC on their old channel 6 allocation. The service has since moved to UHF. For CICI, I'm sure Bell has looked into going digital, but knows they would lose coverage area in doing so. Ditto for CHRO Pembroke.

Last edited by Evuguy (October 17, 2026 10:03 pm)

fybush · October 17, 2026 11:09 pm

rk12 wrote:
CFTO Toronto moved to RF 8 at same time CKVR moved to RF 9.Complete waste of time.

There was a reason for that, though - it was part of international coordination during the last repack that also moved WHAM-TV in Rochester from RF 13 to RF 9, among other shifts. If CFTO had stayed on RF 9, it would have been short-spaced to Rochester with the potential for interference.

andysradio · October 18, 2026 5:58 am

Evuguy wrote:
For CICI Sudbury (NTSC 5), no antenna change would be necessary if Bell Media decided to flash cut the analog signal to digital and keep it on channel 5.

I am sure this is the reason why CICI is still analog. Channel 5 is now out of band. Same goes for Sault Ste. Marie on ch. 2 and Timmins on 3. North Bay was on ch. 10 but that's in band. So they changed out the transmitter but not the antenna. Now the are digital on ch. 12.

markow202 · October 19, 2026 11:42 am

Let us know if this gets approved so now I can watch more of CTV Toronto's poorly mismanaged newscasts here in Barrie

rk12 · October 19, 2026 1:05 pm

Careful what you ask for ! It might become your only choice.

mace · October 19, 2026 7:13 pm

Glen Warren wrote:
I think the real reason for Bell wanting to relocate the CFTO 21 transmitter to the CKVR tower is due to the increasing population growth in Barrie and surrounding areas.

Also, what is the reliability/quality of the main CFTO-DT signal from the CN Tower up towards Barrie?
Barrie/Newmarket is a Rogers cable area. If cord cutters are ditching Rogers, moving the transmitter south with a new antenna or combiner would be a relatively inexpensive way to ensure that viewers still receive the CFTO-DT signal.

Note that CFTO-DT moved to VHF ch. 8 during the ATSC 3.0 repack (if not before). CFTO-DT remains on virtual channel 9.

I believe CFTO is on ch 8 because WHAM Rochester moved from 13 to 9 in the last re-pack.

Evuguy · October 20, 2026 8:27 pm

andysradio wrote:
Evuguy wrote:
For CICI Sudbury (NTSC 5), no antenna change would be necessary if Bell Media decided to flash cut the analog signal to digital and keep it on channel 5.
I am sure this is the reason why CICI is still analog. Channel 5 is now out of band. Same goes for Sault Ste. Marie on ch. 2 and Timmins on 3. North Bay was on ch. 10 but that's in band. So they changed out the transmitter but not the antenna. Now the are digital on ch. 12.

Actually no, VHF channel 5 is not out of band. It's authorized for ATSC but few want to try and operate in this mode with all the noise at these low frequencies, especially in urban areas. ATSC 3.0 would give better results as it is more robust but this standard seems to be becoming increasingly moot as time passes.