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How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
I was poking around in my archives when I discovered the article below. It says, in essence, that the then-owners of CKVR-TV in Barrie (Feb. 1966) had not only applied to move the station to Toronto, but that it was "expected to be approved."
We all know this never happened. At the time, the city only had two television stations - CBLT & CFTO, with nearby CHCH as a sort of unofficial third. So what happened? I've never been able to find out what occurred after this, but the one thing we do know is that the move never took place. If anyone can fill in the blanks on this bizarre mystery, I'd be interested to know how this almost came to be - then didn't. 
- Jody Thornton
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
They must've decided that in Toronto, "3's" a crowd 
Cheers,
Jody Thornton
- Radio Bob
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
So it took a few years, but cable and satellite took care of that little matter, didn't it?
Wasn't CKVR a CBC affiliate back then? Part of the plan must have been disaffiliating and going independent.
Last edited by Radio Bob (February 20, 2023 9:09 pm)
- Radiowiz
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
Radio Bob wrote:
So it took a few years, but cable and satellite took care of that little matter, didn't it?
Wasn't CKVR a CBC affiliate back then. Part of the plan must have been disaffiliating and going independent.
Yeah, I was wondering about that also.
Is it possible that CBC decided that if the three involved (as mentioned in the article) wish to have any CBC funding they better leave the station where it is, as there was never any desire to launch a CBC 2 (TV) Toronto?
RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person.
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
- Forward Power
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
The Canadian Communications Foundation, in their history timeline for CKVR, said the plan was to move the transmitter site to Palgrave, way up on the Oak Ridges Moraine, but when that didn't happen, CHUM fully acquired 'VR and kept it in Barrie, sticking with a focus on that city and the surrounding areas.
- paterson1
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
So it took a few years, but cable and satellite took care of that little matter, didn't it?
Wasn't CKVR a CBC affiliate back then. Part of the plan must have been disaffiliating and going independent.
CHUM bought CKVR in 1969. The station was a CBC affiliate for quite a few years, leaving the network on September 1, 1995 and became The New VR. Prior to disaffiliation CKVR had been slowly going it's own way for years with classic television programming, reruns of classic movies, sitcoms and all night marathons. Since moving to the CN tower, CBLT was putting a clear signal into the Barrie area.
The CBC Toronto station was also on cable services in the Barrie area and to the north. CKVR for years produced a fair bit of local programming, some of which were syndicated to other stations. The New VR capitalized on their "cottage country" location with locally produced shows focusing on lifestyle, the outdoors, skiing and cottage life, even a locally produced version of Breakfast Television.
Initially The New VR format was successful and was adopted by other CHUM television stations.
- MJ Vancouver
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
So it took a few years, but cable and satellite took care of that little matter, didn't it?
Wasn't CKVR a CBC affiliate back then. Part of the plan must have been disaffiliating and going independent.
CHUM bought CKVR in 1969. The station was a CBC affiliate for quite a few years, leaving the network on September 1, 1995 and became The New VR. Prior to disaffiliation CKVR had been slowly going it's own way for years with classic television programming, reruns of classic movies, sitcoms and all night marathons. Since moving to the CN tower, CBLT was putting a clear signal into the Barrie area.
The CBC Toronto station was also on cable services in the Barrie area and to the north. CKVR for years produced a fair bit of local programming, some of which were syndicated to other stations. The New VR capitalized on their "cottage country" location with locally produced shows focusing on lifestyle, the outdoors, skiing and cottage life, even a locally produced version of Breakfast Television.
Initially The New VR format was successful and was adopted by other CHUM television stations.
If I remember correctly CKVR simulcast BT from Toronto but inserted a local news update over BT’s news, and they kept up that practice into the A-Channel era before starting their own fully Barrie-produced morning show which only lasted a few months before the big CTV cuts of 2009.
- Forward Power
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If I remember correctly CKVR simulcast BT from Toronto but inserted a local news update over BT’s news, and they kept up that practice into the A-Channel era before starting their own fully Barrie-produced morning show which only lasted a few months before the big CTV cuts of 2009.
Correct. The simulcast began in about the last 12 months of CKVR's CBC affiliation, after 'VR dropped the CBC Morning News.
- paterson1
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Here's a clip from Youtube of CKVR news openings. A few from the early days but mostly 70's through until today. This little station had various names for their news broadcasts over the years. Total News, CKVR News, VRLand News, VR News, A Channel News, and of course CTV News. You will recognize and remember some of the talent on this.
- Glen Warren
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Like the majority number of private ownership TV stations at the time, both CHCH TV and CKVR TV were both CBC affiliates. CHCH signed on in June of 1954, and CKVR signed on just over a year later in September of 1955.
Under Ken Soble, CHCH TV made a successful application to dis-affiliate from the CBC, and go it alone as an independent TV station. This occurred in 1961.
I wonder if Ralph Snelgrove and company had been inspired to apply for CKVR to dis-affiliate from CBC in early 1966 based on the apparent success of CHCH in 1961... ???
- RadioActive
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
Here's a clip from Youtube of CKVR news openings. A few from the early days but mostly 70's through until today. This little station had various names for their news broadcasts over the years. Total News, CKVR News, VRLand News, VR News, A Channel News, and of course CTV News. You will recognize and remember some of the talent on this.
Sept. 1991. Was Kevin Frankish ever really this young? 
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Thread Starter- RadioActive
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
Like the majority number of private ownership TV stations at the time, both CHCH TV and CKVR TV were both CBC affiliates. CHCH signed on in June of 1954, and CKVR signed on just over a year later in September of 1955.
I guess like most stations in those early years of TV, they weren't on for a full day - unless there was football!
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Thread Starter- Glen Warren
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Yes, it would still be a few years before the invention of the videotape recorder came along... so up until that point it was live, live, live, some film, and more live, live...
Way before my time, but even some commercials were done live for local tv.... they had to!
- Forward Power
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Sept. 1991. Was Kevin Frankish ever really this young?
From the great Retrontario, here he is with the late Mike Yaworski, on a 1985 edition of CKVR's Total News:
- RadioActive
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
Yaworski used to do sports on CFTR when I was there. He didn't last long for some reason, but I remember him. The video you posted was from after that time.
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Thread Starter- Glen Warren
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Mike Yaworski was also a reporter at CFTO, and later a co-anchor on CKCO's noon newscast... iirc....
- RadioActive
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That may be where he went. I remember he wasn't at 'TR very long. I was really surprised and saddened to hear he'd passed away. He was not very old.
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Thread Starter- markow202
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
I pass by the station in Barrie quite often - it has quite the history. The tower aswell still stands over the city with many things being built around it. Im hoping it stays however CTV really made the station bland. Luckily the news still has a local presence. It was indeed a CBC affilliate as CBC hockey night in canada was being watched at the cottage on Channel 3 I remember in the late 80s and early 90s.
- Hansa
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
I pass by the station in Barrie quite often - it has quite the history. The tower aswell still stands over the city with many things being built around it.
Indeed, the tower has quite a history too.
September 7, 1977: CKVR tower reduced to rubble following deadly air crash
- markow202
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
I pass by the station in Barrie quite often - it has quite the history. The tower aswell still stands over the city with many things being built around it.
Indeed, the tower has quite a history too.
September 7, 1977: CKVR tower reduced to rubble following deadly air crash
Yes indeed. The current one built in 78 is still standing strong.
- Forward Power
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Yes indeed. The current one built in 78 is still standing strong.
...and some antennas have come and gone over the years. On the TV side, the old RCA transmitting antenna for channel 3 was replaced with the current digital antenna in 2011, and the CBC/Radio-Canada rebroadcasters, channels 16 and 55 respectively, were decommissioned in 2012. On FM, a huge antenna system was installed around 2005 where CHAY-FM's antenna was, just below the CKVR antenna; Rock 95, Kool FM, Fresh 93.1 and Big 101.1 share the current FM antenna.
Surprisingly, Life 100.3 isn't at the 'VR site... they're staying at the FM site near Edgar, where 95.7 and 107.5 used to be.
- Hamiltonboy
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
So it took a few years, but cable and satellite took care of that little matter, didn't it?
Wasn't CKVR a CBC affiliate back then? Part of the plan must have been disaffiliating and going independent.
Jack Miller at the Spectator covered these stories in detail. Seems to me at one time Jack reported that CKVR wanted to replay CBC prime time programming the next day in the morning and afternoon.
Does anybody have access to those Soec columns?
- markow202
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Yes indeed. The current one built in 78 is still standing strong.
...and some antennas have come and gone over the years. On the TV side, the old RCA transmitting antenna for channel 3 was replaced with the current digital antenna in 2011, and the CBC/Radio-Canada rebroadcasters, channels 16 and 55 respectively, were decommissioned in 2012. On FM, a huge antenna system was installed around 2005 where CHAY-FM's antenna was, just below the CKVR antenna; Rock 95, Kool FM, Fresh 93.1 and Big 101.1 share the current FM antenna.
Surprisingly, Life 100.3 isn't at the 'VR site... they're staying at the FM site near Edgar, where 95.7 and 107.5 used to be.
Yes I do remember the old RCA atop - the tower was actually 100ft taller approx when it was up there - also can you confirm the CBC french tv channel antenna looks to still be there which is unique looking (middle of the tower wraps around it in white squares) although it is off. Looks like a unique UHF antenna which I think was channel 55 low power.
Last edited by markow202 (February 22, 2023 12:07 pm)
- In Phase
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On FM, a huge antenna system was installed around 2005 where CHAY-FM's antenna was, just below the CKVR antenna; Rock 95, Kool FM, Fresh 93.1 and Big 101.1 share the current FM antenna
And the FM antenna is quite unique. IIRC one station is omn-directional (CHAY-FM aka Fresh 93.1) while the other three are directional and in different directions! The power levels are also different.
- Forward Power
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Yes, I remember that antenna, and a quick glance at a Google Street View image on Essa Road from April 2021 reveals that the channel 55 antenna was still there, but not 16, which was below the FM antenna. Haven't been to Barrie in years (I'm based not far from Ottawa) but hoping to get out in that direction in the spring or summer, to visit my folks in Collingwood and Alliston.
- markow202
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
Yes, I remember that antenna, and a quick glance at a Google Street View image on Essa Road from April 2021 reveals that the channel 55 antenna was still there, but not 16, which was below the FM antenna. Haven't been to Barrie in years (I'm based not far from Ottawa) but hoping to get out in that direction in the spring or summer, to visit my folks in Collingwood and Alliston.
Im guessing it looks too complicated to remove the UHF 55 antenna. The funny part is I might be moving to a condo off essa road just down the hill from the studio in about a year if all works out.
Last edited by markow202 (February 22, 2023 2:22 pm)
- Glen Warren
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Remove the antenna? I think it would also depend on the condition of the antenna (CBC/SRC would have kept up with regular inspections, and carried out maintenance and repair if required)... What are the technical characteristics of the antenna? Omni?, Directional?, Slotted? Can it be tuned to a lower frequency?
Stations moving to ATSC digital would already have had their RF assignment prior to 2011... and now post ATSC repack, there is no use for a UHF RF 55 broadcast antenna in North America...
It might be a case where it is obsolete, and not worth the cost of removing it.
I'm sure if CBC had a use for the antenna, they would remove and re-deploy it.
- In Phase
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
Remove the antenna? I think it would also depend on the condition of the antenna (CBC/SRC would have kept up with regular inspections, and carried out maintenance and repair if required)... What are the technical characteristics of the antenna? Omni?, Directional?, Slotted? Can it be tuned to a lower frequency?
Stations moving to ATSC digital would already have had their RF assignment prior to 2011... and now post ATSC repack, there is no use for a UHF RF 55 broadcast antenna in North America...
It might be a case where it is obsolete, and not worth the cost of removing it.
I'm sure if CBC had a use for the antenna, they would remove and re-deploy it.
Odd that the antenna would still be there if unused. Typically, a landlord would want the tenant to remove any unused antennas. All antennas, transmission lines, etc present a "load" on the tower. This contributes to the towers capacity with respect to wind load and ice load, and might limit any future installations. If Bell Media did not have CBC remove the antenna system that would be a mistake (unless CBC is still paying rent for the space).
- markow202
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
See image - the tall VR tower on the right with the said antenna in the middle of it (white square type that wraps around the tower) is/was the CH 55 Radio Canada antenna. I can confirm still there but not in operation (also unique antenna never seen one like it) Maybe its been left for aesthetics!. This is an older image as the analog channel 3 is still atop in this image.
Last edited by markow202 (February 23, 2023 2:27 pm)
- You Guy
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Re: How CKVR In Barrie Almost Became A Toronto TV Station
I worked at CHAY FM when the tower went down. The station signed on in May of 77 and through the summer it was going off the air frequently. Some said it was "teething issues with the new transmitter and antenna. Chay didn't have a full-time engineer. Bob Bowland, the Operations Manager, could handle most tech problems but the station had CHIN radio engineers, Paul Hunter and Trevor Joice on call.
On Sept 7th, Bob was at the TX site with Paul or Trevor about an hour before the crash. On the way back to the station it went off the air again. They turned around and headed back to CKVR and met a lot of police cars and fire trucks heading to the TV station.
The plane's nose hit the 500 ft level of the tower. The prop engines kept on going ending up in a corn field south of the TX site. The senior management of Falconbridge Mines in Sudbury were on that aircraft. Afterward, I know many companies adopted a policy of not allowing senior management on the same flight. One of the CKVR employees had the roof sheared off his Jimmy by a guy wire. The TV anchor Terry Thomas told me they heard the noise and told everyone to get under a desk. One of the guy wires took down a small tower by the building and it fell across the roof damaging the news set. Amazingly the transmitter building and the CHAY transmitter had very little damage.
About 72 hours later CHAY was back on the air thanks to Paul and Trevor securing a 100 watt transmitter and placing the antenna on a short Bell tower adjacent to the CKVR site.