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July 30, 2019 12:57 pm  #31


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Hi Techgirl. You seem to be doing amazingly well with your indoor antenna. The ION stations that you love are located in Batavia, about half way between Buffalo and Rochester. When I had access to an antenna, I only received them during tropo conditions during early mornings or evenings. Could never count on them for a reliable 24/7 signal. However, when it did come in I usually got WBBZ as well.

 

July 30, 2019 2:09 pm  #32


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

CKVP-DT will move to Ch. 29 - but Rabbitears lists the same ERP (5 KW) and the same antenna pattern.  So nothing will significantly change in terms of coverage.   Propagation at Ch. 29 might be slightly better relative to your antenna gain, coax loss, etc.   On the other hand,   Ch. 29 is also occupied by a Buffalo religious television service, WDTB-LP,  which might not be moving channels in the repack.  So during certain "tropospheric" conditions, CKVP might be subject to co-channel interference.

 

July 30, 2019 2:57 pm  #33


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

CKVP-DT will move to Ch. 29 - but Rabbitears lists the same ERP (5 KW) and the same antenna pattern.  So nothing will significantly change in terms of coverage.   Propagation at Ch. 29 might be slightly better relative to your antenna gain, coax loss, etc.   On the other hand,   Ch. 29 is also occupied by a Buffalo religious television service, WDTB-LP,  which might not be moving channels in the repack.  So during certain "tropospheric" conditions, CKVP might be subject to co-channel interference.

Thanks tvguy!! WKBW is getting a new tower or refurbishing their existing one? 

 

July 30, 2019 3:20 pm  #34


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I was told a new antenna will be top-mounted on the tower for ch. 34.  The work will take place this fall, in preparation for the switch to 34 in February/March of next year.   Same tower site.   Power increase to 660 KW ERP - from 358 KW.  Because the antenna is being replaced - I presume feedline will also be replaced to the top of the tower, and they will operate at a lower power - with the side-mounted antenna during construction.   No date was given for the start of work.  However given the severity of Buffalo winters, and "lake effect" blizzards, I don't think they will wait too long to commence work.   But tower crews and helicopters that can lift antennas are in short supply right now.

 

July 30, 2019 3:29 pm  #35


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

I was told a new antenna will be top-mounted on the tower for ch. 34.  The work will take place this fall, in preparation for the switch to 34 in February/March of next year.   Same tower site.   Power increase to 660 KW ERP - from 358 KW.  Because the antenna is being replaced - I presume feedline will also be replaced to the top of the tower, and they will operate at a lower power - with the side-mounted antenna during construction.   No date was given for the start of work.  However given the severity of Buffalo winters, and "lake effect" blizzards, I don't think they will wait too long to commence work.   But tower crews and helicopters that can lift antennas are in short supply right now.

Thanks for the info! So detailed too!  I still dont know why im not receiving CFMT-47 & CITY 57 in Etobicoke.  I have a feeling they might be off FCP for the past month.

 

July 30, 2019 4:44 pm  #36


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

As far as CITS (YesTV, Channel 36) is concerned, they're coming in as 14.1 on all my TVs and DVRs, suggesting they didn't bother with a virtual channel this time. I wonder why. Anyone else seeing this?

     Thread Starter
 

July 30, 2019 5:11 pm  #37


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

As far as CITS (YesTV, Channel 36) is concerned, they're coming in as 14.1 on all my TVs and DVRs, suggesting they didn't bother with a virtual channel this time. I wonder why. Anyone else seeing this?

Confirmed
 

 

July 31, 2019 7:26 am  #38


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Mine also shows 14.1 CITS.    WUTV is coming in with a much stronger signal.

 

July 31, 2019 8:58 am  #39


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

TechGirl wrote:

Holding true to the Canadian way of not making waves I'm sure our broadcasters just went along with whatever the government said they had to do and in typical Canadian fashion planned to make up the $$$ of doing the switch by passing the cost on to Canadian consumers via increases to cable and cellular fees!

By and large, Canadian broadcasters are also cable and cellular companies. A fundamental structural and regulatory "problem" IMHO.

As BDUs, they have next to no incentive to deliver OTA service. They offer OTA in major Canadian markets because of a meager directive from the CRTC.

Spot on Tim!!

I thought I read somewhere that one of the Canadian channels (or maybe all) was being funded by the government to keep OTA going (I think this was up north) but the funding ended or ran out so the broadcaster was looking to end it. It might have been TVO. Actually TVO is pretty good. I would also be upset if I lost that along with CBC. The rest could go by the wayside IMHO but obviously a lot of other folks rely on the Canadian OTA because they don't get the U.S channels.
 

 

July 31, 2019 9:05 am  #40


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Is anyone else having trouble with 23.1/23.2 (CW/Bounce) and 4.1/4.2 (WIVB/Court TV)? Both of these were dark for me most of Monday but they finally kicked in later Monday night then I lost them again sometime Tuesday.

ION went dark for me as well. I really hope that comes back but these channels were always iffy for me other than they have been pretty good the past month. CW and WIVB on the other hand have always been rock solid so this is not a good situation if they've gone dark.

I'm not sure whether to do a rescan again or to wait a couple days or maybe I need to reposition my antenna (indoor).

Ugh!!

 

July 31, 2019 9:57 am  #41


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Not the best news as far as WIVB and WNLO are concerned. The stations relocated to their Colden, N.Y. antenna site from where they were before the last change, which I think was Grand Island. That improves reception for OTA viewers in Buffalo, but does nothing for those of us in the GTA. The fact that the new site is farther away from us means, depending on your antenna set-up, you're likely to have issues with both Channels 4 and 23 for the foreseeable (or in our case, maybe not-so-seeable) future. 

That's why I was so unhappy with the move. Before the last change, WIVB was always a problem. But WNLO was one of the best signals into Toronto and you could get them during a winter blizzard or a summer thunderstorm. Now it's always going to be a crapshoot for both of them.

A sad consequence of the repack. 

On the bright side, your WUTV, Channel 29, should be a lot more reliable, so there's that. And WGRZ isn't going anywhere and they put a great signal into most of the GTA.   

     Thread Starter
 

July 31, 2019 10:46 am  #42


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

Not the best news as far as WIVB and WNLO are concerned. The stations relocated to their Colden, N.Y. antenna site from where they were before the last change, which I think was Grand Island. That improves reception for OTA viewers in Buffalo, but does nothing for those of us in the GTA. The fact that the new site is farther away from us means, depending on your antenna set-up, you're likely to have issues with both Channels 4 and 23 for the foreseeable (or in our case, maybe not-so-seeable) future. 

That's why I was so unhappy with the move. Before the last change, WIVB was always a problem. But WNLO was one of the best signals into Toronto and you could get them during a winter blizzard or a summer thunderstorm. Now it's always going to be a crapshoot for both of them.

A sad consequence of the repack. 

On the bright side, your WUTV, Channel 29, should be a lot more reliable, so there's that. And WGRZ isn't going anywhere and they put a great signal into most of the GTA.   

Aack!! I guess I read too many posts on this on various sites. I thought they were moving to Grand Island with this repack. Aack! Weird how I was able to get them really clear Monday night and most of yesterday unless they were sporadically broadcasting from the old tower. The 29 series of channels seem to be better but I really didn't have a problem with them in the past so the loss of 4 and 23 are greater impact than a slightly sharper 29. :-( :-) Aack!!!

I will try moving my antenna. I haven't touched it for at least a month because all channels (Canadian and U.S) were coming in so well. Maybe if I grab my antenna, stick my arm out and pivot 45 degrees I will be able to pull them in again. :-)

 

July 31, 2019 10:52 am  #43


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

I think they were on Grand Island temporarily, but then moved back to Colden on Monday. And that appears where they're going to stay.

A lot of whether you get either channel or not depends on your antenna and the weather. Is yours an outdoor rig? If not, could you put one up? The more height, the more likely you'll get a decent signal. Also, do you have an amplifier? They can really help boost a signal and can be the difference between getting a station and getting a black screen.  

     Thread Starter
 

July 31, 2019 12:41 pm  #44


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

On a slightly different note, working Downtown T.O.....they is what seems to be two maintenance (painters?) climbing up and down the exterior upper white mast radome of the CN Tower today.

Hope they are wearing their RF suits! 

 

July 31, 2019 12:47 pm  #45


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

CN Tower signals will be going to backups overnight next week for this painting job.


 
 

July 31, 2019 12:53 pm  #46


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

They're painting the radome on the CN Tower? Are you guys sure it's paint?

 

July 31, 2019 1:30 pm  #47


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioActive wrote:

I think they were on Grand Island temporarily, but then moved back to Colden on Monday. And that appears where they're going to stay.

A lot of whether you get either channel or not depends on your antenna and the weather. Is yours an outdoor rig? If not, could you put one up? The more height, the more likely you'll get a decent signal. Also, do you have an amplifier? They can really help boost a signal and can be the difference between getting a station and getting a black screen.  

Before people make changes, or re-aim their antenna systems, wait a few weeks for WNLO/WIVB to complete their tower work.  Nothing you do now is likely to improve or stabilize reception.  The stations are operating under what is known as an FCC "temporary authority" (STA) and are transmitting at much less than authorized power.  The antenna is not their "final" transmitting antenna.  It is side-mounted on the tower and much lower (more than 100 Metres lower) than the final installation.  So I would expect that reception would be comparable to, or better than WKBW, when the work is completed given distance from the GTA, the projected coverage map and the increase to around 800,000 watts ERP.  No one from the company has disclosed the projected completion date.
 

 

July 31, 2019 1:41 pm  #48


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

mace wrote:

Hi Techgirl. You seem to be doing amazingly well with your indoor antenna. The ION stations that you love are located in Batavia, about half way between Buffalo and Rochester. When I had access to an antenna, I only received them during tropo conditions during early mornings or evenings. Could never count on them for a reliable 24/7 signal. However, when it did come in I usually got WBBZ as well.

Hi mace. Apologies. I missed your post. Yes, my little indoor antenna has been amazing for picking up all of the stations out of Buffalo (well most of them that is). Even the stations that supposedly needed an outdoor antenna to pickup. Out of the U.S I'm able to get the 2's, 4's, 7's, 17's, 23's, 29's, 49's and 51's although the 51's were just recently. Of course I can get all of the Canadian stations in the area. The only ones I can't get are Hamilton unless I swing my antenna around but then I lose most of the others although I haven't tried this in a while so maybe that has changed.

 

July 31, 2019 1:47 pm  #49


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

TechGirl wrote:

mace wrote:

Hi Techgirl. You seem to be doing amazingly well with your indoor antenna. The ION stations that you love are located in Batavia, about half way between Buffalo and Rochester. When I had access to an antenna, I only received them during tropo conditions during early mornings or evenings. Could never count on them for a reliable 24/7 signal. However, when it did come in I usually got WBBZ as well.

Hi mace. Apologies. I missed your post. Yes, my little indoor antenna has been amazing for picking up all of the stations out of Buffalo (well most of them that is). Even the stations that supposedly needed an outdoor antenna to pickup. Out of the U.S I'm able to get the 2's, 4's, 7's, 17's, 23's, 29's, 49's and 51's although the 51's were just recently. Of course I can get all of the Canadian stations in the area. The only ones I can't get are Hamilton unless I swing my antenna around but then I lose most of the others although I haven't tried this in a while so maybe that has changed.

By any chance is your indoor antenna a TERK HDTVa?  I started my OTA with one of these and I must say it was just as good as a roof outdoor.

 

July 31, 2019 1:47 pm  #50


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

They're painting the radome on the CN Tower? Are you guys sure it's paint?

Will check again but there definately was two guys hanging around the middle of the radome mast!  You can even see two little doors that were open.  

 

July 31, 2019 1:49 pm  #51


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

tvguy wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

I think they were on Grand Island temporarily, but then moved back to Colden on Monday. And that appears where they're going to stay.

A lot of whether you get either channel or not depends on your antenna and the weather. Is yours an outdoor rig? If not, could you put one up? The more height, the more likely you'll get a decent signal. Also, do you have an amplifier? They can really help boost a signal and can be the difference between getting a station and getting a black screen.  

Before people make changes, or re-aim their antenna systems, wait a few weeks for WNLO/WIVB to complete their tower work.  Nothing you do now is likely to improve or stabilize reception.  The stations are operating under what is known as an FCC "temporary authority" (STA) and are transmitting at much less than authorized power.  The antenna is not their "final" transmitting antenna.  It is side-mounted on the tower and much lower (more than 100 Metres lower) than the final installation.  So I would expect that reception would be comparable to, or better than WKBW, when the work is completed given distance from the GTA, the projected coverage map and the increase to around 800,000 watts ERP.  No one from the company has disclosed the projected completion date.
 

Thanks for this! I was just about to post an update to WNLO/WIVB when I saw your post. I agree to wait before adjusting antennas. I just re-checked those channels and I'm able to receive them again after almost 24 hours of darkness so there is definitely work still going on. Thankfully I didn't start mucking with my antenna although given mine is indoors it's not that much of an effort to move it around. :-)

 

July 31, 2019 1:55 pm  #52


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

They're painting the radome on the CN Tower? Are you guys sure it's paint?

Will check again but there definately was two guys hanging around the middle of the radome mast!  You can even see two little doors that were open.  

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're using paint. They could be using something else.

 

July 31, 2019 2:35 pm  #53


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

They're painting the radome on the CN Tower? Are you guys sure it's paint?

Will check again but there definately was two guys hanging around the middle of the radome mast!  You can even see two little doors that were open.  

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're using paint. They could be using something else.

Perhaps not paint, maybe just cleaning.  I can definately confirm its looking better.  

 

July 31, 2019 2:42 pm  #54


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:


Will check again but there definately was two guys hanging around the middle of the radome mast!  You can even see two little doors that were open.  

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're using paint. They could be using something else.

Perhaps not paint, maybe just cleaning.  I can definately confirm its looking better.  

Thanks for clarifying. Paint and radome generally aren't a good combination.

 

July 31, 2019 2:54 pm  #55


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

RadioAaron wrote:

CN Tower signals will be going to backups overnight next week for this painting job.

A week shy of the height of the Perseid meteor shower (Aug 11-13), which can bring in some very abrupt / brief but intense DX signals from 300-1400 miles away, but the shower will be inching closer and there should still be some level of activity during the week prior. I will be ready and waiting (recording several channels, actually, because sitting on an empty or mostly-empty channel is like listening to paint dry).
 

 

July 31, 2019 3:50 pm  #56


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:


Yes, but that doesn't mean they're using paint. They could be using something else.

Perhaps not paint, maybe just cleaning.  I can definately confirm its looking better.  

Thanks for clarifying. Paint and radome generally aren't a good combination.

Wasnt the case in summer 2017 

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/cn-tower-painter-job-photo-2017

 

July 31, 2019 5:17 pm  #57


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

markow202 wrote:

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

markow202 wrote:


Perhaps not paint, maybe just cleaning.  I can definately confirm its looking better.  

Thanks for clarifying. Paint and radome generally aren't a good combination.

Wasnt the case in summer 2017 

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/cn-tower-painter-job-photo-2017

That's not the radome they're painting. The white surfaces are radome.

 

July 31, 2019 5:39 pm  #58


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

The radome for the microwave area was replaced about 14 or 15 years ago (IIRC).

The microwave radome is the white ring or donut around the lower area of the 360 restaurant.

 

July 31, 2019 6:18 pm  #59


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

Glen Warren wrote:

The radome for the microwave area was replaced about 14 or 15 years ago (IIRC).

The microwave radome is the white ring or donut around the lower area of the 360 restaurant.

The radome panels that run up the mast are the originals from the 1970s.

Here they are being installed.

Last edited by Tim Brown 2016 (August 1, 2019 9:21 am)

 

August 1, 2019 6:28 am  #60


Re: WIVB/WNLO/WUTV/YesTV Confirm OTA Frequency Shift

It's official. WPXJ, Channel 51 from Batavia, has switched frequencies to Channel 23 (although still as 51 on your set.) Last night, I noticed the station wasn't coming in, so I tried scanning their new home, and sure enough the signal popped back in. It was hard to tell because it's sometimes intermittent here.

If 51 is gone, try re-scanning the new frequency and if conditions are right, it should return.

On another front, I noticed on Wednesday that WIVB/WNLO are still airing the rescan announcement. Who is this for? If you watch OTA and haven't tuned in their new frequency, how will you be able to see this announcement?

     Thread Starter