The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » What’s The Biggest Missing Format In Toronto Radio?

RadioActive · June 16, 2017 11:41 am

As the largest media market in Canada (and one of the biggest in North America, for that matter,) The GTA is lucky to have a lot of different formats on its radio dial. There’s all the permutations of rock (Top 40, Classic Rock, Contemporary etc.) Light Favourites, The Ubiquitous “Perfect Music Mix-es,” Hip Hop, Talk, Sports, Independent, and more Ethnic outlets than you can count. Not to mention all the stations from just out-of-town, like the automated All Comedy on CHAM.

So what’s missing? Well, ironically, it may be the one thing we were once blessed with from countless outlets in the area (especially CHUM & CKOC) – a fulltime oldies station, which has all but disappeared from the Toronto dial and just may be something that's without any advertiser demos anymore. (I don’t consider AM 740 a true “oldies” format, since there are so many talk shows, travel shows, conspiracy phone-ins, big band programs, trivia, and old radio dramas, just to name a few. You might get music if you tune in, but it's a crapshoot.)

Boom’s play list only goes back as far as the 70s, but really concentrates more on the 80s and 90s. Q is still very album oriented. And neither CJOY, CFOS, or CKDO really come in well enough in many areas here to make them a viable alternative. (If Grapevine 1220 in St. Catharines ever becomes a reality, we’ll see if that changes.)

What would you say is the one format you’d like to see a struggling station try to make work? Classic country? Real oldies? All business? All traffic? Or something else?

As Bill Gable once joked at CFTR, he wanted to change the format to "Beautiful Sports." Don't laugh. With the way things are going in this business, that could still happen!

Fitz · June 16, 2017 12:06 pm

What's missing is a triple A station like Chicago's WXRT. I copied their recent playlist and some of it is completely missing from the Toronto air waves and such diversity is certainly missing from the playlist of any one station.

Out in the StreetBruce Springsteen, Bruce...Live in NYC10:57AM

Out of My LeagueFitz & the TantrumsMore Than Just a Dream10:53AM

ON TOUR:July 14, 12:00 AMRavinia FestivalFIND TICKETS

To Be Without YouRyan AdamsPrisoner10:50AM

ON TOUR:August 3, 10:00 PMVic TheatreFIND TICKETS

Cigarette DaydreamsCage the ElephantMelophobia10:41AM

ON TOUR:August 3, 12:00 AMGrant ParkFIND TICKETS

Fly AwayLenny Kravitz510:37AM

Keep GoingThe RevivalistsMen Amongst Mountains10:33AM

Don't Dream It's...Crowded HouseCrowded House10:29AM

Ruby TuesdayThe Rolling StonesBetween the Buttons10:23AM

Better ManPearl JamVitalogy10:18AM

RenegadesX AmbassadorsVHS10:14AM

Pretty PersuasionR.E.M.Reckoning10:11AM

Everything NowArcade Fire10:06AM

ON TOUR:August 6, 12:00 AMGrant ParkFIND TICKETS

When You're FallingAfro Celt Sound System, Peter...Pod10:01AM

Track your favorite artists and never miss a show againTRACK NOW

God Part IIU2Rattle and Hum9:57AM

Walking on a DreamEmpire of the SunWalking on a Dream9:54AM

Real ManTodd RundgrenInitiation9:49AM

ON TOUR:August 19, 7:00 PMFestival ParkFIND TICKETS

So Much To SayDave Matthews BandCrash9:45AM

I Dare YouThe xxI See You9:41AM

ON TOUR:August 5, 12:00 AMGrant ParkFIND TICKETS

Out of TimeThe Rolling StonesFlowers9:33AM

Under the Milky WayThe Church

Last edited by Fitz (June 16, 2017 12:08 pm)

Radiowiz · June 16, 2017 3:10 pm

I think the closest thing to the XRT format was one of the short lived River formats on River 105 in Niagara falls. Once you add 35-40% Can con, does that idea still work?

Dancin' oldies (or whatever the name should be today) was last heard on 88.5 FM before they switched to more of a standards direction.
You know what might work? An oldies station with a Dancin' oldies Saturday night...

June 16, 2017 3:16 pm

Radiowiz wrote:
Once you add 35-40% Can con, does that idea still work?

AAA is very Cancon friendly - much more than Oldies or Classic Hits.

Muffaraw Joe · June 16, 2017 3:35 pm

I like Chicago's The Drive...I love their music mix...

But I also think a Positive Radio Station or a women's radio station is missing...plus a good Classic "Hits" station on FM!

Radiowiz · June 16, 2017 3:56 pm

Muffaraw Joe wrote:
plus a good Classic "Hits" station on FM!

I'm sorry, I've failed to understand.
Do you mean a less repetitive Boom 97.3? Or do you mean the return of the Key 590 playlist?

Mike Cleaver · June 16, 2017 4:07 pm

Triple A has never had any ratings success.
The Vancouver station didn't last.
Most who started with that format have changed to something else.

cGrant · June 16, 2017 4:10 pm

What's missing is a second talk radio format. RB has ZERO competition. Apparently, there's some kind of carrier signal on 640 AM that's supposedly some kind of outlet for "never-heard-of's", retired, or fired from 1010 (Stafford) feeble attempt that barely registers a pulse. In the end, they are infomercial, Coast-to-Coast, producer/custodian/wannabe jocks on that frequency. No, RB needs some actual competition.

Fitz · June 16, 2017 4:18 pm

Muffaraw Joe wrote:
I like Chicago's The Drive...I love their music mix...

But I also think a Positive Radio Station or a women's radio station is missing...plus a good Classic "Hits" station on FM!

Bob Stroud's Rock Roots show on the Drive is worth checking out and he has been on the air in Chicago for a long time.

Also just to change the topic a bit. I checked Q 107's playlist yesterday and they actually played "A Town Called Malice" by the Jam. Nice one and hope they add more of that ilk.

I look at Boom's playlists and notice that along with mainstream rock and some CFNY era classic alternative they play a lot of disco era Bee Gees. I did not think there was such great demand for that. How about the pre disco era Bee Gees ?

Also a lot of Abba and Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond seems to be on their daily rotation. Would they lose big time for substituting all three of these acts for more triple A friendly material by say Spirit, Nick Lowe and Wilco. A tweak and not a major format change but I guess they can't argue with winning ratings and so it's up to someone else to fill the void.

Radiowiz · June 16, 2017 4:22 pm

cGrant wrote:
What's missing is a second talk radio format. RB has ZERO competition. Apparently, there's some kind of carrier signal on 640 AM that's supposedly some kind of outlet for "never-heard-of's", retired, or fired from 1010 (Stafford) feeble attempt that barely registers a pulse. In the end, they are infomercial, Coast-to-Coast, producer/custodian/wannabe jocks on that frequency. No, RB needs some actual competition.

Is there an an example of a market in Canada where two AM talk stations (NOT CBC) are very successful competitors, BOTH with good ratings?

cGrant · June 16, 2017 4:41 pm

Radiowiz wrote:
Is there an an example of a market in Canada where two AM talk stations (NOT CBC) are very successful competitors, BOTH with good ratings?

See, THAT'S the trouble with "Toronto thinking" -- the city that can't cope with 2mm of snow without declaring a "weather-storm-all-hands-on-deck-while-we-call-in-the-military". It doesn't want to be unique and push itself. It's satisfied with all the left-whining-pinkos running the roost and the usual pinko status-quo. Who the eff cares if there's success elsewhere? Try it here. Or, do us a favour and shut off the frequency and save on your hydro bill.

I've said it before -- Canada's largest media market and the best they have is some guy fired from a professional outlet and his gaggle of teeny-boppers constantly interrupting and giggling. The rest of the schedule has unknowns and "once-were's". It's a gosh darn pity that is the best they have. Clearly, someone is running the frequency as a capital loss.

Radiowiz · June 16, 2017 5:54 pm

cGrant wrote:
Or, do us a favour and shut off the frequency and save on your hydro bill.

You're talking about Corus, a company that really DID shut down some AM stations.
Credit where credit is due, they can't be accused of intentionally being in the waste electricity business.

Muffaraw Joe · June 16, 2017 6:37 pm

Radiowiz...I like a station like CKDO in Durham, it is older hits, a little more bubble gum and older tunes from the 50's-60's then Boom...

I hope that explains what I meant

Cheers brother or sister...

June 16, 2017 7:56 pm

There are two types of "missing" formats; one, where there is potential for a good sized and/or loyal enough audience to generate decent looking 6+ ratings, and another where the new station would be more profitable than whatever it replaced.

For the former, real Oldies and soft AC are pretty obvious. Getting either to make money would require a complete re-think of ad-sales at the agency, buyer, and client level. (Long overdue.)

For the latter, slim pickings.

Country shouldn't be written off just because it's a big, multicultural city. WNSH New York, KKGO Los Angeles, and CJJR Vancouver do really well, particularly in the suburbs, which is where Country's audience really is. The KX signals have the suburbs somewhat covered, but a single big signal from a major player would end that quick.

AAA - I guess. Mike right that ratings are seldom there, but not never. And the stations that do make it work, like XRT, KINK, or sometimes KFOG do so because of decades of history, and advertisers that have figured out that quality can beat quantity.

Talk - possibly. But on FM. CBC's move to FM is when they really started to catch up to / overtake the commercial talk AMs. Montreal's CHMP just cleaned house when they launched on FM. (Spare me the AM coverage maps; they don't mean squat in apartment buildings, offices, under streetcar lines, or when people don't even know it exists.) With music formats fragmenting, and more easily replaced by Spotify, talk makes sense to come up the middle.

NOW Radio Edmonton. The music mix is bland and safe (which it has to be) -- it's the presentation! I know a lot of the establishment programmers and consultants like to write it off as a one-off, but it's been...like 6 years in arguably Canada's most competitive market! Nobody can touch them. And they saw immediate gains when the brought it to Calgary. Let people talk! It works!

Last edited by Don (June 16, 2017 8:00 pm)

June 17, 2017 10:33 am

Radiowiz wrote:
You know what might work? An oldies station with a Dancin' oldies Saturday night

Should be a huge hit with those who can't get a date

June 17, 2017 11:59 pm

"What’s The Biggest Missing Format In Toronto Radio?"

Something that's actually listenable..