The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » CBC Radio 1, CHFI & Boom The Big Winners In Fall Radio Ratings

RadioActive · December 6, 2023 6:07 pm

The usual suspects are in the top positions after the release of the Fall 2023 radio ratings.

More on Toronto and other major markets here.

paterson1 · December 7, 2023 11:17 am

Interesting how the younger 18-34 listeners female and male appear to like stations that are playing older music.

F 18-34, CHFI and BOOM are the most popular. CHFI does play some current music as well but their playlists include a lot of music that is 20-40 years old. For males 18-34, Q107 and BOOM are the favourites and both playing a lot of music that was around before this age group was even born.

Surprised how CityNews 680 does so well with men 25-54. Looks like they are listening to the station for more than just traffic. In fact between CBC Radio 1 and 680, talk radio doesn't do bad. A shame that these two stations seem to squeeze out Newstalk 1010 and 640 Toronto, or listeners in the GTA aren't big fans of opinion radio. And Toronto's two decent sports stations, don't seem to be a big draw.

RadioAaron · December 7, 2023 11:30 am

paterson1 wrote:
Interesting how the younger 18-34 listeners female and male appear to like stations that are playing older music.

18-34 is, to put it nicely, a low-quality sample. It's almost entirely circumstantial "listening."

paterson1 · December 7, 2023 11:30 am

Also kind of neat how 25-54 both Z103.5 and CHUM are more popular with this group than the younger 18-34 listeners.

shurmanator · December 7, 2023 1:23 pm

I am, apparently, like all of you, irrelevant where ratings are concerned. But having spent a long time in the biz, I am interested in what Toronto numbers look like. That shit posted in Broadcast Dialogue by David Bray isn’t worth anything to anyone. How does a “RADIO board” actually get something meaningful to radio? I am sure McNie's death is of some interest and, yes, he did make great fish…so that rates an entire topic here but the ratings are a reprint of whatever skimpy nonsense Bray pooped out? Where are the numbers?

Last edited by shurmanator (December 7, 2023 1:49 pm)

Stinand · December 7, 2023 1:36 pm

shurmanator wrote:
I am, apparently, like all of you, irrelevant where ratings are concerned. But having spent a long time in the biz, I am interested in what Toronto numbers look like. That shit posted in Broadcast Dialogue by David Bray isn’t worth anything to anyone. How does a “RADIO board” actually get something actually meaningful to radio? I am sure MiNce’s death is of some interest and, yes, he did make great fish…so that rates an entire topic here but the ratings are a reprint of whatever skimpy nonsense Bray pooped out? Where are the numbers?

I second that !!!

RadioActive · December 7, 2023 2:22 pm

To be fair to the board, Numeris has drawn an Iron Curtain over their numbers, unlike the old days when they were released publicly after the stations who pay for them got a first look. I can assure you we would gladly publish every one of them we could, but they're simply no longer given out. That's a Numeris issue, not a SOWNY one. So until they're more forthcoming with their research (and I get why they might want to keep them for clients only) there's not much we can do.

As for the McNie thread, that was simply a matter of interest about a familiar name that many recalled hearing on the radio everyday. For whatever it's worth, I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn't have read that anywhere else!

Maybe I'm alone on this, but not everything on the board has to be breaking, urgent news. It's OK to also have other slightly off-topic but broadcast-related posts here. And of course, everyone is free to look at the items that interest them and ignore the rest.

dmcjeff · December 7, 2023 2:34 pm

"We should note that, for Canadians,10% of radio consumption come from AM/FM live radio streaming. Let’s forge on." I use TunedIn Streaming almost exclusively in my car up in Barrie.

We are in the new digital age. Those who 'forge on' and adapt will do well. '680 news' rebranding simply as 'city News' and being available in HD2 (Kiss 92's HD 2 signal) and Tuned In (for Tesla's etc) make it easier to tune in; especially considering many auto MFR's don't even include 'AM' anymore. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if 'City News' takes over HD1 of 92.5 sometime soon. CHR has music all over the dial in the GTA at Chum, Z, Virgin, 93.5 and even 98.5 which for sure has a few thousand lingering listeners.

Kudos to CIDC though. I'm a long-time listener and appreciate their unique style with the talent and programming they have.

dmcjeff · December 7, 2023 2:51 pm

^^ also CING's 'energy' 95.3 sounds a lot like Chum 104.5 to me whenvever i tune in and that's a monster signal that reaches all the way up to south Barrie i've noticed, at-least in my car.

Again; I don't know how 'Kiss 92.5' did, but I suggest one of two things to rogers... make 92.5 the City News channel OR make 92.5 the new '(old CFTR)'

RadioAaron · December 7, 2023 3:37 pm

dmcjeff wrote:
^^ also CING's 'energy' 95.3 sounds a lot like Chum 104.5 to me whenvever i tune in and that's a monster signal that reaches all the way up to south Barrie i've noticed, at-least in my car.

Again; I don't know how 'Kiss 92.5' did, but I suggest one of two things to rogers... make 92.5 the City News channel OR make 92.5 the new '(old CFTR)'

KiSS came in at #3. They're not going anywhere.

RadioAaron · December 7, 2023 8:26 pm

By popular demand....

A25-54

Boom. 10.2
CHFI 9.7
KiSS 7.9
Virgin 7.8
Z103 7.7
CHUM 6.9
Q. 6.9
680 6.8
CBC1 6.1
Edge 5.0
Indie 2.8
Classical 2.4
FAN 1.9
1010 1.6
FLOW 1.4
640. 1.4
CBC2 1.2
LITE 1.0
TODAY 0.9
Energy 0.8
Zoomer 0.6
JAZZ 0.6
TSN 0.6
ICI 0.2
Elmt 0.1

Walter · December 7, 2023 9:00 pm

I remember when CFRB had a 10 point share, or higher, and 640 was in the dumpster. Now, they share the dumpster.

RadioActive · December 7, 2023 10:01 pm

If memory serves, that's probably the closest CFRB and AM640 have ever been to each other. And that's not a good thing.

RadioAaron · December 7, 2023 10:33 pm

RadioActive wrote:
If memory serves, that's probably the closest CFRB and AM640 have ever been to each other. And that's not a good thing.

Yep; shuffling audience back and forth between them won't save either.

Radiowiz · December 7, 2023 11:38 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
RadioActive wrote:
If memory serves, that's probably the closest CFRB and AM640 have ever been to each other. And that's not a good thing.
Yep; shuffling audience back and forth between them won't save either.

Very true, but trying to be (very) different also failed. Remember when AM 640 tried to be talk radio for guys?

RadioActive · December 7, 2023 11:41 pm

Anyone remember this from 1994? It didn't work then, either.

RadioActive · December 8, 2023 8:16 am

The numbers are limited, but David Bray has provided the list of A12+ from Ottawa, where CBC Radio 1 rules, 89.9 CIHT is a close second and - this is the one that shows how different the situation is there than here - TSN 1200 rates very well. In Toronto, its 1050 affiliate is almost nowhere to be found in the ratings.

For what it's worth, here are the limited numbers.

mic'em · December 8, 2023 9:46 am

These ratings are GTA specific are they not ? I have to think 640's actual ears tuned in outside of the GTA is higher due to signal strength. As a listener to Alex and Oakley, I have recognized alot of callers to their programs, are out of towners. In my area, south eastern Georgian Bay, 640 booms in, 1010 is mostly static. No pun intended.

Binson Echorec · December 8, 2023 11:50 am

As a business entity, Numeris should be embarrassed. The system is both flawed and somewhat archaic. I recall a colleague of mine being stunned when they learned that Numeris distributes 600 meters for the GTA.

600 meters in an area with a population of nearly 6,000,000. That's way too small a sample size, and also creates those wild swings we see from book to book.

However, as they keep serving up 9s and 10s as ratings results, I understand why the corporations who own those stations that get 9s and 10s wouldn't want to rock the boat by complaining.

I would love to see one of the "big four" pull their support but that won't happen as long as the flawed and archaic system works in their favour.

Also more than ever, streaming numbers need to be a factor - I don't believe they are currently.

mic'em wrote:
These ratings are GTA specific are they not ? I have to think 640's actual ears tuned in outside of the GTA is higher due to signal strength. As a listener to Alex and Oakley, I have recognized alot of callers to their programs, are out of towners. In my area, south eastern Georgian Bay, 640 booms in, 1010 is mostly static. No pun intended.

I think you're on to something. I can't get 640 in my car at Jarvis and King. I can get it in Belleville.

brian451 · December 8, 2023 2:02 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
By popular demand....

A25-54

Boom. 10.2
CHFI 9.7
KiSS 7.9
Virgin 7.8
Z103 7.7
CHUM 6.9
Q. 6.9
680 6.8
CBC1 6.1
Edge 5.0
Indie 2.8
Classical 2.4
FAN 1.9
1010 1.6
FLOW 1.4
640. 1.4
CBC2 1.2
LITE 1.0
TODAY 0.9
Energy 0.8
Zoomer 0.6
JAZZ 0.6
TSN 0.6
ICI 0.2
Elmt 0.1

I look at these numbers and am surprised. Edge is nowhere near as good as it used to and Indie in my opinion is much better. With better on air staff. Boom at the top doesn't surprise me at all but the fact Kiss, Virgin, Z and CHUM are between 3-6 in that order is a surprise. There used to be more of a gap between them. There has always been people talking about a possible flip at one of them, whether it's Kiss or Virgin. Same with the possibility of a flip at edge because Indie was doing much better. But now it seems like indie is the one that could use a change.
But my question is how much longer will Today continue to exist in this current format. I was listening for a while and texting in to be a part of the conversation. Then almost every single time someone would call me back. Ask me questions for a segment that would air at a later time. They encourage conversation but aren't live a lot of the time. So it's a lot of best of and re-rolls of segments. Something needs to change there for sure. Also it would help if the 2 afternoons show hosts were broadcasting in the same city. Or time zone at least.

peter · December 9, 2023 9:14 am

If memory serves, that's probably the closest CFRB and AM640 have ever been to each other. And that's not a good thing.

Not sure why it's not a good thing????...Are you anti AM640 or just upset that the station you listen to is in the dumpster?

PTE · December 11, 2023 6:34 pm

Here are the Hamilton ratings:

It seems that most of the tuning done in Hamilton is for out of market stations.Station
"Fall 2023

"CHKXFM KX-947" 7.5
"CKLHFM Bounce 102.9" 6.6
"CKPCFM Lite 92" 3.9
"CHML CHML" 3.7
"CJXYFM Y108" 2.7
"CHTGFM 92.9 The Grand" 1.9
"CINGFM Energy 95-3" 1.8
"CHTZFM 977 HTZ FM" 1.6
"CHAM Funny 820" .5
"CKOC BNN BLOOMBER RADIO 1150" .3

2 other interesting demos from Toronto ratings.

18+ Females with children under 12

Station "R4/23

"CIDCFM Z 1035" 14.4

"CILQFM Q107" 11.0

"CHFIFM 98.1 CHFI" 9.6

"CKFMFM 999 Virgin Radio" 9.0

"CKISFM KiSS 92.5" 7.7

"CFTR CityNews 680" 6.6

"CHUMFM CHUM 104.5" 6.4

"CHBMFM boom 97.3" 4.7

"CFMZF+ Classical 96.3 FM" 4.6

"CFNYFM 102.1 The Edge" 4.4

"CJRTFM JAZZ.FM91" 2.3

"CFRB News Talk 1010 - CFRB" 1.5

"CINDFM INDIE 88.1" 1.5

"CKDXFM Hot Country 88.5" 1.4

"CJCL Sportsnet 590 The FAN" .9

"CFXJFM 93.5 Today Radio" .5

"CFIQ 640 CFIQ" .4

"CINGFM Energy 95-3" .3

"CHUM TSN 1050" .1

"CKFGFM FLOW987 Hip Hop and R&B" .1

"CFZM+ ZoomerRadio AM740/96.7FM" .0

"CFPTFM 106.5 Elmnt FM" .0

All Persons 35 - 54

Station "R4/23

"CHFIFM 98.1 CHFI" 9.3

"CHBMFM boom 97.3" 9.3

"CIDCFM Z 1035" 8.7

"CHUMFM CHUM 104.5" 8.3

"CKISFM KiSS 92.5" 7.2

"CFTR CityNews 680" 6.5

"CKFMFM 999 Virgin Radio" 6.5

"CILQFM Q107" 6.2

"CFNYFM 102.1 The Edge" 5.1

"CINDFM INDIE 88.1" 3.1

"CFMZF+ Classical 96.3 FM" 3.0

"CJCL Sportsnet 590 The FAN" 2.2

"CKFGFM FLOW987 Hip Hop and R&B" 1.6

"CFIQ 640 CFIQ" 1.5

"CFRB News Talk 1010 - CFRB" 1.4

"CKDXFM Hot Country 88.5" 1.1

"CFZM+ ZoomerRadio AM740/96.7FM" .8

"CJRTFM JAZZ.FM91" .7

"CHUM TSN 1050" .7

"CINGFM Energy 95-3" .6

"CFXJFM 93.5 Today Radio" .6

"CFPTFM 106.5 Elmnt FM" .1

RadioAaron · December 11, 2023 6:43 pm

PTE wrote:
2 other interesting demos from Toronto ratings.

18+ Females with children under 12

Not that interesting. Anything with 18 year olds in it is junk data. The vast majority of 18 year olds have no relationship with radio whatsoever.

RadioActive · December 11, 2023 6:52 pm

Did I read that right? AM640 beat CFRB by a single .1 rating point in one demo? If so, that's the first time ever!

RadioAaron · December 11, 2023 6:55 pm

640 beat 1010 in overall 25-54 in one book a couple years ago.

RadioActive · December 11, 2023 7:45 pm

Have to say I don't remember that but it's pretty rare. Not much to brag about, either way.