Thanks ig...

I'm as pro cop as the next guy but this radio encryption does their public image no good...

Look at the R.C.M.P. commissioner this week and his expensive apology to hundreds of female officers...
I've got three officers suspended from duty in my town as we speak...one of them is the lone dog handler on the police service...so the force has no dog service because this guy is suspended...fucking eh...
And while their suspensions have nothing directly to do with radio encryption it's a highly visible  -- always present and accounted attitude that gives the public confidence in them...not this barrier...
It's just another wall...a wall of silence and they're the ones putting it up...

Too many screw ups by too many officers sworn to serve and protect...we don't need to make it any easier for them...

Dumb...
 

Indeed times have changed. I recall then Chief Bill Blair telling a story about how some radio calls would include a reminder to “notify Inspector #2” to come to the scene. It wasn’t until his funeral that I learned that “Inspector #2” was none other than City TV’s Mark Dailey, who had a special relationship with the local cops, who often gave him the head’s up on breaking crime stories.
 
They knew City’s Assignment Desk was listening to the scanners and that the word was sure to be passed along.
 
Something like that wouldn't happen these days, and certainly not with encrypted radio signals. 

unclefester wrote:

Mike Cleaver wrote:

  .
Encryption can be un-encrypted if you want to pay the freight.

Yes Mike...and I've been working on that...getting in touch with some folks who might be able to assist me in getting the right equipment etc. To hell with  the cost...It's a matter of principle...isn't it ??!! 

I know this is how arguments get started round these parts but with all due respect, sincerely, you won't be able to do it.  

The only possible way would be to steal a radio, and they're addressable so you'd only get about 5 or 10 minutes out of it at most.

TPS uses APCO P25 for voice communications, encrypted using 256k AES keys, and to make it more interesting the keys are apparently routinely changed over the air.

Assuming though that they didn't change the keys, and you had access to all the computing power on the planet, AES-256 would still take you, on average, longer than the universe has left in order to crack, and that's assuming nobody needed their computer to check Facebook while you're trying.  And at that point, if they got a whiff that you had managed, they'd change the keys and you'd have to start all over.  I'm not questioning your hacking ability, but if it could be done, organized crime would have beat you to it a long time ago.  

If you really really want to listen, get a job with the force.  That's about the only way to make it happen

Anyway..  Here's a good City report from last year:  http://www.citynews.ca/2015/03/03/concerns-raised-over-toronto-police-scanner-encryption/

The G20 clusterfuck had a good deal to do with the rush for cops to turtle into their encryption.


 

RadioActive wrote:

And yet there's hope things could be changing.

Emergency agencies turn off radio encryption

Wouldn't hold your breath but it would be something.  I've always had a concern for the fire guys that digital is just an awful way to try to communicate in a local situation,   Read up on the horrendous digital cellular problems during the WTC collapse and the havoc (death?) it caused.  I get it, I'm old, but in a bad situation give me analog radio to radio (talkaround) any day.  

There was a story floating around that when the OPP went digital, and flipped the encryption bit, traffic issues became huge because Tow Truck drivers could no longer get to accidents quickly.  From what I remember (not well) either they turned off the encryption on the main dispatch channel or simulcast an analog copy.

To be fair, it's not just the Toronto cops that are at fault, when it was just mostly real news outlets monitoring there was a sense of play-fair and loyalty, when the blogger clowns showed up on the scene 'reporting news', it all went to hell.    The Garrett Styles audio fiasco was (I agree) probably the last straw, and the Det.-Const. Plunkett case before that.  

I do (strongly) believe newsrooms should have access to an un-encrypted feed of the main dispatch channels, but as for the 'hobbyist' eavesdropper (voyeur?), I completely understand why they should be locked out.

ig.



 

Remember this story? It's almost 7 years old and goes back to a time when Toronto Police decided they were going to encrypt all their radio transmissions, effectively shutting out the assignment desks at radio and TV stations, along with newspapers, so reporters couldn't be alerted to events - like a shooting - in progress. 

It was a bitter moment for the news organizations back then, and it became a fait accompli that continues to this day. 

"The Radio Television Digital News Association, a professional organization for broadcast and digital journalists, for example, has said the consequence of encryption is to “prevent the public from accessing information about the activities of police in real-time.”

 “These communications provide individuals and newsrooms with essential updates on issues happening in their communities, such as violent crime, hazardous conditions or officer-involved shootings,” the organization said on its website. “The move to encrypt police scanners puts the public — and the newsrooms that serve them by seeking and reporting the truth — at risk.”

So why bring it up again? I just read a very interesting idea that's being implemented in Baltimore, where cops have also decided the public shouldn't be allowed to hear what they're up to. But instead of cutting people off entirely, they've come up with a clever solution. 

A website called "Broadcastify," which records the radio transmissions from public services like cops, fire departments and even air traffic controllers, will be used to bring those lost back-and-forths to the public - but on a 15-minute delay.  That will allow authorities to get any sensitive forces in place without tipping off the bad guys, while still leaving the radio messages for the public. 

While it's far more useful and used in the U.S., Broadcastify does have a Canadian component. But because of the restrictions imposed by the cops, there's not much on it beyond a few fire departments. 

So while the days of those ubiquitous scanners in the newsroom are disappearing, this sounds like a good compromise that doesn't draw a huge cone of silence over what the men and women in blue are up to. It's a great solution and I wish it was considered here. But given the secrecy that often surrounds what authorities do in this country, it's probably never going to happen. 

But what an interesting idea.

Baltimore Police to encrypt radio transmissions and offer public access on 15-minute delay