And so ends the era of classic hits on AM in the region, unless you can get CKDO or CJOY clearly. I'd like to know what the impetus was for the decision to go with 1150 and not 820, both Bell properties in Hamilton. While I admit I haven't really listened to CKOC in a while (especially not with their recent nighttime power reduction) and I like Funny 820 as as a stopgap in the car when there's nothing else to listen to, the ratings from last fall show the oldies hitting almost a 5 locally, with the comedy sitting at a 1.0.

So why do you think did Bell picked CKOC to be the one that becomes all sports? I'm also curious about the need for such a station in that market. Beyond the Ti-Cats, which I'm told is something of a religion in the Hammer, and the Bulldogs, what other local major sports are there to keep the conversation going? After all, there's already plenty of Blue Jays, Leafs talk etc. emanating from 1050 (and 590) that residents there can hear without any problem. And I believe 820 has a better signal overall.

Not trying to be a snob about this, cause I like Hamillton, but I'm truly wondering about the choices Bell made and why they were made. Perhaps it was more a comment on the perceived futility of music on that band than anything else.     

Meanwhile, if I were AM 740, I'd consider tweaking the format to pick up whatever listeners will defect when the new format comes into full effect in the fall.

Last edited by RadioActive (May 28, 2015 10:40 pm)

Radiowiz wrote:

It sounds to me like Bell would rather spend $5 to make $6 (if that) than to spend $500 to make $600.  

Far from just Bell.  That's the reality of many radio formats depending on the money guy looking at them.  

You're right.  Just about all radio companies would rather spend $5 million to make $7, rather than $15 million to make $17 because the cost of carrying that extra $10 mil has to be factored into the budgets.  You're not really making close to the $2 million profit on paper you would be in a $5/$7 scenario.   So your format must be able to justify not just the audience, but the audience and advertisers that will fiscally support it.   It's one thing to get a 1 or 2 share in Toronto, but it's not worth it if it can't survive financially.  It's not public broadcasting, and it's not fair that it should be measured as such.

Sales guys are truly the unsung heros in a lot of these formats.  A thousand years ago, when I was at 640, and to much the same extend 680, made crazy numbers over what they should do based on ratings.  That income is based on an awesome sales force working with the on-air talent selling retail on the streets to advertisers who can see past numbers to tangible results in their places of business.  There's a real relationship that develops between the advertisers and the sales / on-air people.  

It can be a difficult thing for someone not directly involved in the relationship to comprehend, but it's the Sauls, Toms, Franks and Michael's that allow some of these formats to remain viable.  


 

At least CHUM had quite a few 'goodbye' events, including the long lead up to the 2001 switch to The Team.  
Then there was the 50th anniversary open house in 2007 and the year long celebration of the 50th.  And then came the final one in November '07 or '08 (I forget) which was another open house.  During 2007, we produced hundreds of celebratory messages, short airchecks segments, fun promos, etc.

A lot of that happened while CHUM was still owned by the Waters family and then after 2006, CTV supported the 50th in 2007 (although CTV management probably didn't even know or care what was happening since they had secret plans of their own for 1050 which included pulling the plug on oldies and plugging in CP24 audio until TSN 1050 arrived.

I sincerely hope Bell's radio brain trust puts together some kind of celebration of CKOC's legacy.  It would be a really nice gesture to their listeners...but I'm not holding my breath.  

Last edited by Doug Thompson (May 29, 2015 10:07 am)

Dale Patterson wrote:

I agree with you Doug that Bell should put together a nice celebration of CKOC,

Just what I was thinking. They should bring in John Novak to do a noon time countdown like he used to and Nevin Grant for a few ``In Touch With Yesterday.``
 

Last edited by Fitz (May 29, 2015 11:40 am)

I wonder how much local programming they will have on TSN 1150. Maybe Doug Farroway will make a comeback.

RadioActive wrote:

So does this mean that the Leaf games will move from 820 to 1150 when the format flip becomes official?

While the answer is yes, keep on mind that maybe 820 is the spare frequency that will now carry a game when 1150 is already carrying a major game at the same time. (just a thought...)
 

verger wrote:

Much like in television, live sports is one of the few types of content that can't be experienced via time shifting and whatnot. Oldies? Plenty of other ways to get them, without ad content. Like it or not, it strikes me as sound business decision.

You can say that about all music radio.
The difference is that radio in Hamilton can offer a local feeling. Oldies/classic hits with a local feeling is always good.
820, done right, can make more money with classic hits/oldies than it can with all comedy radio.

Let's all be thankful AM 740 is in the hands of a smaller company and not one of the big guys. otherwise it too would end up being some sort of sports or news/talk dumping ground.
Interesting how standards is still considered to be more profitable than oldies or classic hits though...at least to Moses & company...
 

To me, AM740 sounds very old.  Moses is actually using the 'block programming' format - ie. something for everyone.  An up beat, informative morning show (called "The Happy Gang", a rip off of the name of a CBC radio program that aired from 1937 until 1959), followed by a two hour talk show, aimed at (or so it seems to me) the really senior audience.  Then Norm Edwards plays 40's/50's/60's/70's and contemporary AC music until Robbie Lane takes us back to "The 60's at 6", "The 70's at 7" etc.  From 10 to 11PM, AM740 airs old time radio programs from the 1930's to the 1950's (and I must admit, I do enjoy listening to those).

But things really haven't changed much on AM740 for years.  How long can something be called 'New'?
And in my opinion, their jingles are the hokiest sounding things ever.  They're obviously recorded in Canada.  As amazing as Canada's creative community was and is, we never quite got the 'hang' of creating great sound radio station singing jingles.

For all of the Canadian radio stations I created jingles for, I went to the source - hired an arranger in Dallas, flew there and worked with the regular session musicians and jingle singers that did WABC, KFWB, WLS, KBOX etc. Bobby Curtola and his songwriting partners, Basil & Dyer Hurdon did the same thing.  They recorded in Nashville using the same session players everyone else used.  Bobby told me that he often had Floyd Cramer on piano, Grady Martin and Harold Bradley on guitar, Bob Moore on bass plus the Anita Kerr Singers and occasionally (when they were available) The Jordanaires, Elvis' back up singing group.  

It's possible that Moses likes his station sounding 'hokey'...but for me (I'm a first wave Boomer/Zoomer), I'm not really interested in listening to Glenn Miller and Hugo Winterhalter & His Orchestra.  Growing up listening to CHUM (first as a teenager, then as a staff member from 1965), that's not my music.  That's my parents generation of music.

AM740 listeners are literally dieing off.  I believe the station needs to change and relatively soon to attract a slightly younger audience.  I doubt he'll ever get the Millennial to listen simply because they don't go to AM radio much (unless it's news or sports, mainly sports), but there are plenty of Boomers/Zoomers to give him a comfortable ratings boost if he chooses to 'modernize'  

Last edited by Doug Thompson (May 31, 2015 12:24 pm)

Doug Thompson wrote:

To me, AM740 sounds very old.  Moses is actually using the 'block programming' format - ie. something for everyone.  An up beat, informative morning show (called "The Happy Gang", a rip off of the name of a CBC radio program that aired from 1937 until 1959), followed by a two hour talk show, aimed at (or so it seems to me) the really senior audience.  Then Norm Edwards plays 40's/50's/60's/70's and contemporary AC music until Robbie Lane takes us back to "The 60's at 6", "The 70's at 7" etc.  From 10 to 11PM, AM740 airs old time radio programs from the 1930's to the 1950's (and I must admit, I do enjoy listening to those).

But things really haven't changed much on AM740 for years.  How long can something be called 'New'?
And in my opinion, their jingles are the hokiest sounding things ever.  They're obviously recorded in Canada.  As amazing as Canada's creative community was and is, we never quite got the 'hang' of creating great sound radio station singing jingles.

For all of the Canadian radio stations I created jingles for, I went to the source - hired an arranger in Dallas, flew there and worked with the regular session musicians and jingle singers that did WABC, KFWB, WLS, KBOX etc. Bobby Curtola and his songwriting partners, Basil & Dyer Hurdon did the same thing.  They recorded in Nashville using the same session players everyone else used.  Bobby told me that he often had Floyd Cramer on piano, Grady Martin and Harold Bradley on guitar, Bob Moore on bass plus the Anita Kerr Singers and occasionally (when they were available) The Jordanaires, Elvis' back up singing group.  

It's possible that Moses likes his station sounding 'hokey'...but for me (I'm a first wave Boomer/Zoomer), I'm not really interested in listening to Glenn Miller and Hugo Winterhalter & His Orchestra.  Growing up listening to CHUM (first as a teenager, then as a staff member from 1965), that's not my music.  That's my parents generation of music.

AM740 listeners are literally dieing off.  I believe the station needs to change and relatively soon to attract a slightly younger audience.  I doubt he'll ever get the Millennial to listen simply because they don't go to AM radio much (unless it's news or sports, mainly sports), but there are plenty of Boomers/Zoomers to give him a comfortable ratings boost if he chooses to 'modernize'  

AM 740 has gone downhill ever since Moses took over. Worst jingles I've heard anywhere, bar none. A talk show in the middle of the day, right into the lunch hour - are you kidding me? The morning show is OK now that Gallagher's gone but for a while there is was unlistenable. Norm Edwards gives them continuity with the AM 1250 days but do listeners really care about that? I've never been a fan of Robbie Lane, sorry - I find him almost painful to listen to (I wish Frank Proctor still had that shift). I do like the music AM 740 plays for the most part - the playlist is pretty wide and diverse - but the tuneout factor for me is what I hear between the songs including those damned jingles.
 

Last edited by Dale Patterson (May 31, 2015 1:46 pm)

AM740 aside for the moment, it really would be nice for Bell to give CKOC a final send off as a music station (maybe not as elaborate as we did at CHUM), but it certainly would be the cool thing to do.
Perhaps someone in Bell Media (now that Kevin Crull is gone) will actually try and organize something.  It wouldn't cost very much and I'll bet plenty of the old gang would be happy to get involved.  

We did CHUM's 50th anniversary on a song and a prayer.  NO MONEY whatsoever.  All a labour of love from everyone involved.
 

First, so good to see you and Dale back again posting here.  I think this bodes well.  (fingers crossed)

Doug Thompson wrote:

AM740 is just too 'old and tired' sounding.  1050 CHUM had a talk show in the morning in the late '60's well into the '70's first with Larry Solway, then John Gilbert and those shows, for the most part, was interesting because Larry and John were entertainers first.  

People's taste in announcers is different of course, but I do like Robbie Lane.  I think he's become an excellent broadcaster, plus he knows his '60's and '70's music since he was in the middle of it here in Canada.

Maybe Moses will read this Dale and hire you and I to 'fix' AM740.  Resumes upon request.  

I rather enjoy Robbie Lane as well especially for the insights he gives about a song/artist he had some involvement with.  That's the kind of thing I like to listen to.  It's one of the reasons I hang out here -- I want to hear the stories/

I listen to Stafford so I don't usually listen to AM740's talk at noon.  But the few times I've tried to listen when Stafford wasn't on, it wound up being very brief creating a bounceback to 640 for whoever was on.
 

ig wrote:

The CKOC send off would be nice, but it's a one time hit that would probably be missed by most.  It would be good for someone to create a site much like Doug has done for CHUM with pictures, memories, contributions etc.  Something that would keep on 'living' rather than just being a few hours long.
 

 This is as close as I can find for the moment.

http://www.ckoc1150archives.com/index.html