The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » KISS radio Kingston is stunting

PwrSurge · March 2, 2023 12:52 pm

Station is back, just played "Girls Girls Girls" by Mötley Crüe. Perhaps Mr. Fybush is busy with one of them.

radiokid · March 3, 2023 10:45 am

RadioAaron wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Would make sense. That would be the format most helped by the fact the don't have to play Cancon, IMO.
Very true, but is the age demo there to support it?

It'd primarily be 80s music, so yeah.

Issue will be what hole is available in that market. The market already has 2 country stations, a Rock, a Classic Hits/Classic Rock, An AC and a HOT AC. There is also an oldies already across the way on the US side. Based on who owns 102.7 now, I'm betting more on their "FREQ" brand, with a classic leaning (90's focused) alternative format. Going "oldies" will put you against some already established players, on a weaker frequency. It also feels with the stunt they are playing it would be a better fit to transition over from. I'm sure someone has done actual market research and knows more than we all do on guessing, but I do question what audience growth is possible trying to push between what's available currently without offering something different, and hitting a demo with more life ahead of them. 90's alt rock listeners keep in mind is typically a Gen X in their 40's and 50's.

Last edited by radiokid (March 3, 2023 11:05 am)

RadioActive · March 3, 2023 10:52 am

Wouldn't it be hilarious if they discovered "The Pole" was actually a big hit and people were tuning it in in droves? I read a few online posts from ordinary listeners who say they love the music mix and wish it would continue.

Think of the irony if they accidentally discovered a hot new format while trying to find another one!

km93 · March 3, 2023 10:56 am

radiokid wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:

Very true, but is the age demo there to support it?

It'd primarily be 80s music, so yeah.
Issue will be what hole is available in that market. The market already has 2 country stations, a Rock, a Classic Hits/Classic Rock, An AC and a HOT AC. There is also an oldies already across the way on the US side. Based on who owns 102.7 now, I'm betting more on their "FREQ" brand, with a classic leaning (90's focused) alternative format. Going "oldies" will put you against some already established players, on a weaker frequency. It also feels with the stunt they are playing it would be a better fit to transition over from. I'm sure someone has done actual market research and knows more than we all do on guessing, but I do question what audience growth is possible trying to push between what's available currently without offering something different, and hitting a demo with more life ahead of them. 90's alt rock listener keep in mind is typically a Gen X in their 40's and 50's.

Kingston used to have The Drive which was a lot like Toronto's 'The Edge' or 'Sonic' in Alberta and B.C., and it did very well in the ratings, Bell changed it to 'Pure Country' as a cost-cutting move. Alternative is the main hole, that even Queen's campus radio fails to fill. If Alternative can work in Peterborough and Orillia, it will do very well in Kingston.

radiokid · March 3, 2023 11:13 am

km93 wrote:
Kingston used to have The Drive which was a lot like Toronto's 'The Edge' or 'Sonic' in Alberta and B.C., and it did very well in the ratings, Bell changed it to 'Pure Country' as a cost-cutting move. Alternative is the main hole, that even Queen's campus radio fails to fill. If Alternative can work in Peterborough and Orillia, it will do very well in Kingston.

Exactly my thoughts.. Always an issue with today though... can it be sold to advertisers to buy on the station. "The Pole" I can't see staying due to the limited advertisers who would feel comfortable on a station like that, but alt rock? I think there could be room to make that work, and offer enough difference between the others already in the market. Kids in college/university are a hard sell to regular radio in 2023 on any station but streaming, but those Gen X's could give then a sellable audience base.

paterson1 · March 3, 2023 12:09 pm

Listened to the Pole off and on for the past few days. It is fun and entertaining but the format itself likely has no (ahem) legs beyond a few months.... When they get the technical issues fixed, they will likely roll out the new setup and sound. Love the id's, it would have been great if Jeff Lumley had recorded some of the breaks. His material on MAX FM in Orillia and The Bruce in Port Elgin is really well done and funny.

I agree an alternative or new music format seems possible and My FM has already delved into this with FREQ in Peterborough. As mentioned above they may want to expand this banner for the company and Kingston would be a prime candidate. The ratings are primarily used for national advertising which has been shrinking, and in markets the size of Kingston sliding for years. Local advertising is and will be the backbone of their revenue.

Last edited by paterson1 (March 3, 2023 12:12 pm)

RadioAaron · March 3, 2023 4:44 pm

radiokid wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:

Very true, but is the age demo there to support it?

It'd primarily be 80s music, so yeah.
Issue will be what hole is available in that market. The market already has 2 country stations, a Rock, a Classic Hits/Classic Rock, An AC and a HOT AC. There is also an oldies already across the way on the US side. Based on who owns 102.7 now, I'm betting more on their "FREQ" brand, with a classic leaning (90's focused) alternative format. Going "oldies" will put you against some already established players, on a weaker frequency. It also feels with the stunt they are playing it would be a better fit to transition over from. I'm sure someone has done actual market research and knows more than we all do on guessing, but I do question what audience growth is possible trying to push between what's available currently without offering something different, and hitting a demo with more life ahead of them. 90's alt rock listeners keep in mind is typically a Gen X in their 40's and 50's.

There really isn't an Oldies reliably available from across the border. Either way, MY's "Oldies" is 80s-based and would sound fantastic without Cancon.

The DRIVE actually started as Classic Alternative, but it's a problematic format as it's either too wide or it burns itself out quickly. And the current music of the format is....um.....kinda not in great shape.

Totally agree that the current stunting would be a natural lead-in for Alt, though.

Kingston is a market where there's still a straight line from ratings to revenue, and if it were anyone else, Alt would be off the table. With MY though, it's certainly possible.

RadioAaron · March 3, 2023 4:46 pm

km93 wrote:
radiokid wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
It'd primarily be 80s music, so yeah.
Issue will be what hole is available in that market. The market already has 2 country stations, a Rock, a Classic Hits/Classic Rock, An AC and a HOT AC. There is also an oldies already across the way on the US side. Based on who owns 102.7 now, I'm betting more on their "FREQ" brand, with a classic leaning (90's focused) alternative format. Going "oldies" will put you against some already established players, on a weaker frequency. It also feels with the stunt they are playing it would be a better fit to transition over from. I'm sure someone has done actual market research and knows more than we all do on guessing, but I do question what audience growth is possible trying to push between what's available currently without offering something different, and hitting a demo with more life ahead of them. 90's alt rock listener keep in mind is typically a Gen X in their 40's and 50's.
Kingston used to have The Drive which was a lot like Toronto's 'The Edge' or 'Sonic' in Alberta and B.C., and it did very well in the ratings, Bell changed it to 'Pure Country' as a cost-cutting move. Alternative is the main hole, that even Queen's campus radio fails to fill. If Alternative can work in Peterborough and Orillia, it will do very well in Kingston.

Drive had a couple good books, but was mostly at the bottom, and it billed next to nothing. The switch to Pure was not a cost cutting move. They've spent more on in that they did the last few years of The Drive.

And what's the evidence that Alt is working in Peterborough or Orillia?

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 3, 2023 4:47 pm)

Danny Petty · March 4, 2023 6:18 pm

Adding (as opposed to removing) another layer here... This is what currently greets Pole patrons on the station website. Not sure who/what they're specifically referring to, but obviously someone with skin in the game?
[img]https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cfd90a_c11bd8b9bb4844a487163659870c5d25~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1686,h_2384,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/Manager%20Ben%20Reid%20Letter.jpg[/img]

PwrSurge · March 4, 2023 11:35 pm

Danny Petty wrote:
Adding (as opposed to removing) another layer here... This is what currently greets Pole patrons on the station website. Not sure who/what they're specifically referring to, but obviously someone with skin in the game?

If you read carefully, they are obviously referring to Rogers who used to own the station previously. I suspect that many people are unaware the station was sold and still believe it is owned by Rogers and as a result, they may be getting a bit of flack in response to the new format.

fybush · March 4, 2023 11:48 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
PwrSurge wrote:
Sounds like their transmitter just died a few moments ago. Hearing first-adjacent interference from another station, even on the online stream.

Perhaps their "exciter" pushed "a load" that was "too hot" for the "transmitter" to handle.

It's WATN 1240 Watertown.

WLYK's transmitter is on, with the audio feed being taken over by the AM signal whose tower site is also a Watertown studio site.

Or something close to that. Scott Fybush can correct, but I suspect he's busy,

I sure was - two six-hour round trip drives from Rochester up to Cape Vincent in two days.

Here's what was going on: when the Pole launched on Wednesday, it did so from the WATN studios in Watertown. That was the "main studio" for WLYK when Rogers was programming it - they sent their audio feed from Kingston to Watertown over the internet, and then it went by microwave STL from Watertown to the transmitter site in Cape Vincent.

The new owners aren't continuing that arrangement with the Watertown stations, so I had to move some of WLYK's equipment from the Watertown studios out to Cape Vincent. In particular, I had to relocate the EAS alert encoder out to Cape Vincent.

When you heard the station go off the air on Thursday for a bit, it was the EAS encoder being taken out of the air chain in Watertown. There's a lot of RF from the WATN 1240 signal in that building, and some of that audio was ending up mixing in with the Pole audio going out from Watertown over the STL to Cape Vincent.

My plan was for that to be on the air only for as long as it took for me to drive out to Cape Vincent (about half an hour), reconnect the EAS box out there, pull the STL feed off the air and replace it with a direct feed from automation computers at the transmitter site.

Best laid plans and all that - we couldn't get the audio feed from the automation into the transmission chain that day, so I reluctantly had to leave the noisy STL audio from Watertown on the air Thursday night, then returned Friday with more equipment. And even THEN I still had to make one more round trip from Cape Vincent back to Watertown for one more cable that I needed.

As of about 2 PM Friday, Watertown was completely out of the loop, and what's on the air now is coming direct from the transmitter site in Cape Vincent in what (I hope!) is nice clean stereo.

I'll be up there again later this month cleaning up more of the transmission chain, but hey, it's a start!

radiokid · March 6, 2023 10:53 am

I'm not sure how the online stream is being picked up and encoded, but it sounds like it's a tuner picking the OTA feed, vs a direct connection to the audio chain. For sure not as clean/clear as it could be... (static/slight interference at times). I would assume this is one of the improvements to come?

PwrSurge · March 6, 2023 3:34 pm

RadioActive wrote:
Wouldn't it be hilarious if they discovered "The Pole" was actually a big hit and people were tuning it in in droves? I read a few online posts from ordinary listeners who say they love the music mix and wish it would continue.

Think of the irony if they accidentally discovered a hot new format while trying to find another one!

You actually might be right, lots of positive response so far, a 5-star review rating on their Facebook page and lots of people from places across North America such as Las Vegas listening online on their website.

Radio with personality and a sense of humor is LONG overdue, and 102.7 The Pole is a winner! Keeping a non-cookie cutter format like this one will certainly bring back many listeners who actually abandoned terrestrial radio for online or mobile music sources such as Spotify.

This would be the PERFECT station for Ed The Sock, who is in fact currently looking for morning show radio work (i.e. https://www.milkmanunlimited.com/edthesock ). They should definitively bring him on and complete the threesome as "Ed the Sock, Desstiny and Chestiny in the morning". Ratings would be HUGE, guaranteed!

Last edited by PwrSurge (March 6, 2023 3:34 pm)

Tomas Barlow · March 7, 2023 1:28 am

Maybe the rest of Pole's stations can be something more interesting than tepid AC with low energy voice tracks in the future.

PwrSurge · March 8, 2023 12:31 pm

radiokid wrote:
I'm not sure how the online stream is being picked up and encoded, but it sounds like it's a tuner picking the OTA feed, vs a direct connection to the audio chain. For sure not as clean/clear as it could be... (static/slight interference at times). I would assume this is one of the improvements to come?

Yes I can confirm this, there is occasional FM fading on the online stream, most likely available Internet connectivity options at the transmitter site are insufficient or too costly to directly steam from there. The tuner must be located where their website is being hosted and is only using an indoor antenna so any movement inside or nearby the building can cause the signal to fade.

The easiest way to resolve this issue is by installing a better quality outdoor FM antenna.

Last edited by PwrSurge (March 8, 2023 12:32 pm)

fybush · March 8, 2023 1:24 pm

PwrSurge is exactly right - the only internet available at the transmitter site right now is a satellite-fed service that is adequate for uploading content into the automation system there, but it's not enough bandwidth to sustain streaming audio back to a hosting provider on a 24/7 basis. So yes, what you're hearing for now is coming from a radio on the Canadian side picking up the signal from Cape Vincent.

Hrick · March 8, 2023 1:39 pm

Maybe a better higher quality radio would also help. The sound is very poor when listening via TuneIn in my Tesla.

Radiowiz · March 14, 2023 6:20 am

Letter was updated March 9th with a fresh new survey. This one is a lot more detailed, trying to learn what Kingston is listening to on the radio...(or would like to hear...)

[img]https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cfd90a_9a52383da0fb4fc1b90b44fa902336a7~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_843,h_1192,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/Pole%20Letter_March9_2.jpg[/img]

To do the new survey:
https://www.1027thepole.com/

RadioAaron · March 17, 2023 1:16 pm

Whatever's happening, seems it's at 3 today.

RadioActive · March 17, 2023 3:01 pm

And the winner is: "The New 102.7 Lake FM."

RadioAaron · March 17, 2023 3:02 pm

Soft AC - Lake FM.

RadioActive · March 17, 2023 3:18 pm

The online feed is full of noise, so this isn't the easiest but thankfully very brief sign-on to listen to. But here's the moment when the Pole 102.7 became Lake FM 102.7 at 3 PM.

The Lake 102.7 sign on

The new website is here.

RadioAaron · March 17, 2023 3:32 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
Soft AC - Lake FM.

Correcting myself here....sounds more like 80s based Gold AC.

RadioActive · March 17, 2023 5:05 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Soft AC - Lake FM.
Correcting myself here....sounds more like 80s based Gold AC.

Broadcast Dialogue indicates it may be more like a Boom-type format.

"The station’s playlist will feature hits from the ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s from a range of artists including Hall & Oates, Journey, Heart, Whitney Houston, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner, Genesis, Rod Stewart, Duran Duran, Prince, and Madonna. With the on-air lineup yet to be announced, 102.7 Lake FM will also broadcast local news, weather and events."

102.7 The Pole is now Kingston’s ‘Feel-Good Station’ 102.7 Lake FM

RadioAaron · March 17, 2023 5:08 pm

A lot less rock and overall lighter than Boom. I’m sticking with Gold AC

paterson1 · March 17, 2023 6:35 pm

I like the station, and so far it is lighter than Boom. But more bounce than most Breeze stations. Their 20,000 songs in a row will take them to about May 8 or 9th and from a marketing point of view good timing to debut on air staff, news and commercials prior to the May 24th weekend which kicks off on May 19th. Kingston is a big cottage country area and like Muskoka the 24th holiday weekend is important and the unofficial kick off to summer.

This is the second time that WYLK has been known as Lake radio. Back around 2012 they had a similar format and branded as The Lake. I have a feeling this time it is going to work.

Last edited by paterson1 (March 17, 2023 6:38 pm)

RadioAaron · March 17, 2023 7:23 pm

First two hours:

3:01 PM               MARIAH CAREY Dreamlover         1993
3:05 PM               NAKED EYES        Always Something There To...      1983
3:09 PM               GENESIS               Misunderstanding            1980
3:16 PM               PRINCE AND THE REVOLUTION   Kiss         1986
3:20 PM               MICHAEL JACKSON           P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)              1983
3:24 PM               ELTON JOHN       Your Song            1970
3:28 PM               GEORGE HARRISON         Got My Mind Set On You               1987
3:32 PM               JOAN JETT/BLACKHEARTS              I Love Rock 'N Roll            1982
3:36 PM               WILSON PHILLIPS              Hold On                1990
3:40 PM               KENNY LOGGINS               Footloose            1984
3:43 PM               BOSTON               More Than A Feeling       1976
3:48 PM               MATTHEW WILDER          Break My Stride 1983
3:51 PM               FLEETWOOD MAC            Gypsy    1982
3:55 PM               BEE GEES             Night Fever         1978
3:59 PM               GROVER WASHINGTON, JR.          Just The Two Of Us           1981
4:04 PM               WHITNEY HOUSTON        So Emotional      1987
4:08 PM               EURYTHMICS      Sweet Dreams(Are Made Of This)              1983
4:12 PM               BILLY JOEL            Movin' Out (Anthony's Song)       1977
4:16 PM               MADONNA          Like A Prayer       1989
4:20 PM               FUGEES Killing Me Softly 1996
4:24 PM               HALL & OATES    Out Of Touch      1984
4:28 PM               DURAN DURAN Hungry Like The Wolf      1982
4:32 PM               ANITA WARD      Ring My Bell       1979
4:35 PM               BRYAN ADAMS   (Everything I Do) I Do It...              1991
4:39 PM               PAULA ABDUL    Straight Up          1988
4:44 PM               WHITNEY HOUSTON        I Wanna Dance With Somebody...              1987
4:49 PM               MARVIN GAYE    Sexual Healing   1982
4:53 PM               FLEETWOOD MAC            Don't Stop           1977
4:56 PM               PHIL COLLINS      Against All Odds                1984
4:59 PM               SHERYL CROW   Everyday Is A Winding Road         1996

paterson1 · March 17, 2023 8:52 pm

Actually scanning the list above, Lake FM is a lot lighter than Boom. Listening to the 80's Weekend on Boom right now, they are sounding more like The Pole...

Tomas Barlow · March 18, 2023 12:48 am

RadioAaron wrote:
First two hours:

3:01 PM               MARIAH CAREY Dreamlover         1993
3:05 PM               NAKED EYES        Always Something There To...      1983
3:09 PM               GENESIS               Misunderstanding            1980
3:16 PM               PRINCE AND THE REVOLUTION   Kiss         1986
3:20 PM               MICHAEL JACKSON           P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)              1983
3:24 PM               ELTON JOHN       Your Song            1970
3:28 PM               GEORGE HARRISON         Got My Mind Set On You               1987
3:32 PM               JOAN JETT/BLACKHEARTS              I Love Rock 'N Roll            1982
3:36 PM               WILSON PHILLIPS              Hold On                1990
3:40 PM               KENNY LOGGINS               Footloose            1984
3:43 PM               BOSTON               More Than A Feeling       1976
3:48 PM               MATTHEW WILDER          Break My Stride 1983
3:51 PM               FLEETWOOD MAC            Gypsy    1982
3:55 PM               BEE GEES             Night Fever         1978
3:59 PM               GROVER WASHINGTON, JR.          Just The Two Of Us           1981
4:04 PM               WHITNEY HOUSTON        So Emotional      1987
4:08 PM               EURYTHMICS      Sweet Dreams(Are Made Of This)              1983
4:12 PM               BILLY JOEL            Movin' Out (Anthony's Song)       1977
4:16 PM               MADONNA          Like A Prayer       1989
4:20 PM               FUGEES Killing Me Softly 1996
4:24 PM               HALL & OATES    Out Of Touch      1984
4:28 PM               DURAN DURAN Hungry Like The Wolf      1982
4:32 PM               ANITA WARD      Ring My Bell       1979
4:35 PM               BRYAN ADAMS   (Everything I Do) I Do It...              1991
4:39 PM               PAULA ABDUL    Straight Up          1988
4:44 PM               WHITNEY HOUSTON        I Wanna Dance With Somebody...              1987
4:49 PM               MARVIN GAYE    Sexual Healing   1982
4:53 PM               FLEETWOOD MAC            Don't Stop           1977
4:56 PM               PHIL COLLINS      Against All Odds                1984
4:59 PM               SHERYL CROW   Everyday Is A Winding Road         1996

All of that hype was built up for this?
Zzzzzzzzzz.

RadioQuiz · March 18, 2023 9:48 am

Looking at the Kingston landscape... seems like an obvious hole.

Playing the hits is never a bad strategy. Playing the hits w/o CanCon is even better.

Listening for about an hour and the imaging is really good. My wife loved every song. She's 47. Center of the demo.

Guess we'll see.

Unless it's another stunt.