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January 13, 2023 11:04 am  #1


A Few Questions About Car Radios

After way too many years of waiting, I finally bought a new car last July. Only problem is because of chip shortages, I still don't have it all these months later. I'm told it's finally on its way and could be here sometime in February. 

This vehicle will be replacing my current one, which is closing in on 17 years old. There are plenty of dents, dings, rust and "seen better days" evidence. But enough about me. That also applies to my aging clunker. 

I remember taking that test drive last year. For some reason (maybe COVID?) the dealer didn't come with me, just giving me the fob and saying "take it around the neighbourhood for half an hour." So I drove it for about 10 minutes, then pulled over onto a side street to play around with what really mattered to me most - the radio. (And yes, it includes HD, which I've never had before.)

I have never had a car with one of those computer screens in it. My current radio consists of a volume control, a frequency display and a tuning knob, along with 6 presets. That's it. When I tried to figure out this new one - with no manual - I found it incredibly counter-intuitive and extremely difficult to use. Worse yet, it was probably the one thing you don't want in your car - a major distraction that takes your eyes off the road for way too long. 

So I have to admit that while I will eventually get used to it (and to most here, it's probably old hat by now) it makes me a bit nervous. As a constant station switcher, this looks almost dangerous to me. In fact, a recent article shows just how worrisome it can be, 

"More troubling was that, in those 44.9 seconds of distraction, the driver of that MG had travelled 1,372 metres without looking ahead. That’s more than a kilometre-and-a-quarter — the distance between Bloor and College Streets in downtown Toronto, or Granville to Crombie in Vancouver — in which they could have driven out of their lane, or in which a pedestrian could have crossed the road or, worse yet, during which a toddler could have run out from between two parked cars chasing a soccer ball or a kitty-cat. Even the Tesla, so lauded by its acolytes for its superior software, drove 786 metres without an attentive driver."

When it comes to in-car infotainment, buttons are safer than screens

So my questions: how easy do you find these things to use? Are they distracting once everything is set up? Do you ever miss the old style of radio that was part of a car's interior for decades? And in a world where simply holding a cell phone behind the wheel gets you an expensive ticket and fine for distracted driving, how can putting what is essentially a TV screen in front of a driver's face be considered a good idea? 

 

January 13, 2023 2:44 pm  #2


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

You may be able to use some voice commands with the radio. You're going to have to spend, perhaps a lot, of time with the manual.

Perhaps if you told us the make and model and model option, someone or some people with the same car can give you some pointers.

 

January 13, 2023 3:32 pm  #3


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

depending on the make and model of your car, I find that reddit often has postings about mundane things such as voice commands for the car.  Yes, I agree the new apps can be distracting, expecially when I try to tune in Durham's WAVE.fm - which appears with an incorrect logo on the touch screen as kx country 94.7 or kx country 95.9.    I do miss knobs. I don't think that the 20-something multitaskers who design cars, give any thought to distracted driving.   Even my daughter in her 30's hates the touchscreen in my car, and prefers knobs.  One last rant.  We discovered after nearly 2 years, a "hidden" control in the heating touchscreen for the system to blow warm air into the back seat.  It should have been self evident.   I said one rant....some car makers provide over-the air updates.  The problem is, they frequently change the GUI (interface) so that a set of touchscreen commands that you used on Monday for things like your radio - are re-written by Friday....so the learning curve has to start all over again.  ELON - STOP ALREADY!!!!!

 

January 13, 2023 5:10 pm  #4


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

It's a Mazda 3 Sport GS Hatchback, if that helps. It's taken so long to get here, they might as well have driven it from Japan!

     Thread Starter
 

January 13, 2023 5:11 pm  #5


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

With the steering wheel controls it can be ok, though plugging a phone in makes it more cumbersome at times.  Hit the Android Auto button, map comes up.. oh crap, I want to go FM instead of AM, AA has to be re-done.  Touch the screen again.  Youtube music is a pain, many touches sometimes.  Other times voice works, sometimes it doesn't.  My radio has a knob for volume at least.  I find I go there more than using the steering wheel switch.  Yep, it's distracting.

 

January 13, 2023 5:30 pm  #6


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

I actually asked the dealer about whether an older style radio could be installed if I were willing to pay extra. (Imagine having to pay more for something old!) He said that wasn't possible - the assembly line nature of the manufacture makes that impossible. I think I'm going to miss the simpler times once it gets here. Sometimes bigger isn't better. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 13, 2023 10:47 pm  #7


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

My Equinox has volume and tuning controls on the steering wheel. I don't always use them but they are useful in high traffic conditions.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
 

January 14, 2023 12:13 pm  #8


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

According to the Mazda website, the Mazda 3 has steering wheel volume control, it doesn't specify if it has the ability to change the mode or select a frequency. https://www.mazda.ca/en/vehicles/mazda3/specifications/
Congrats on the purchase. 

Last edited by mic'em (January 14, 2023 12:14 pm)

 

January 14, 2023 4:51 pm  #9


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

mic'em wrote:

According to the Mazda website, the Mazda 3 has steering wheel volume control, it doesn't specify if it has the ability to change the mode or select a frequency.

Mazda has always had great vehicle manuals. Can be downloaded in seconds from their online source.
 

 

January 14, 2023 5:14 pm  #10


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

You got a Mazda? Get it rustproofed. Often.

 

January 14, 2023 6:30 pm  #11


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Chrisphen wrote:

You got a Mazda? Get it rustproofed. Often.

Yes and no. Small batches of what are now used Mazda 3s. See article:

https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/are-used-mazdas-reliable-or-rusty

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a Mazda. Look at all the CX 5s on the road. Be good
to your car and chances are it’ll be good to you. Enjoy your 3, RA. I had a ‘95
Protege and loved it!
 

 

January 14, 2023 8:25 pm  #12


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

mike marshall wrote:

mic'em wrote:

According to the Mazda website, the Mazda 3 has steering wheel volume control, it doesn't specify if it has the ability to change the mode or select a frequency.

Mazda has always had great vehicle manuals. Can be downloaded in seconds from their online source.
 

mike marshall wrote:

Chrisphen wrote:

You got a Mazda? Get it rustproofed. Often.

Yes and no. Small batches of what are now used Mazda 3s. See article:

https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/are-used-mazdas-reliable-or-rusty

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a Mazda. Look at all the CX 5s on the road. Be good
to your car and chances are it’ll be good to you. Enjoy your 3, RA. I had a ‘95
Protege and loved it!
 

Thanks for the good wishes. I just hope it eventually gets here! (Actually getting a new car in the middle of February is probably NOT the best time, but them's the breaks - or should that be brakes?) 

I actually looked at the Mazda's manual online for the radio but I discovered that you can't figure it out properly just by reading it. You have to be in front of the screen and play around with it to truly grasp what you're doing. So I'll have to wait.

I'll also have to check on the engine type but I intend to ensure the maintenance schedule is fully carried out, especially at the beginning. Wouldn't want to give them an excuse to void the warranty!

As for rust, as Mr. Young once said, it never sleeps and my old one has a lot of it. Not unexpected, though, in this climate after 17 years. But rustproofing is definitely on my radar when it comes to discussing options. I really appreciate all the encouragement and advice.  

As for my original concerns about how safe touchscreens are in cars, NBC Nightly News coincidentally ran this feature piece on Saturday. It does not make me feel a lot better!

Are car touchscreens distracting drivers?

     Thread Starter
 

January 14, 2023 8:57 pm  #13


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Serially, I owned three different Mazdas during the 80s and 90s. I bought each of them new. They were great cars.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
 

January 14, 2023 9:42 pm  #14


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

I had a 1991 Mazda MX-6 and it was a great car.  New car that I kept for four years and no major issues.  Reliable vehicle.
Enjoy your new car RA!  Hope you get it in the better weather and your old car works ok a until then...

 

January 14, 2023 11:07 pm  #15


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

This will be my third Mazda 3 and while this isn't radio related, it's a tale right out of The Twilight Zone. 

The old 2006 that I'm driving now was a replacement for another Mazda 3. I had parked the original on a quiet side street where my brother lived in Thornhill, and then we all went out together for about 3 hours in another vehicle. When we came back, there was a cop on scene asking for me.

"I'm sorry to tell you that another driver, who said he was trying to avoid hitting a squirrel, lost control of his car and plowed into the back of yours. Your car is a total write off and has already been towed away." 

I was stunned, to say the least. How do you hit a parked car with so much force you destroy it?

But believe it or not, that's not the worst part of the story. Because the place I had been at the time with my brother and the rest of my family was at my father's funeral! It was after that devastating goodbye that I came back to yet another nightmare. 

The insurance company eventually replaced it with a new Mazda 3 and that's the one that's going away when the 2023 model finally arrives. But talk about a very, very, very bad day!

     Thread Starter
 

January 15, 2023 11:51 am  #16


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

RA, the best rustproofing is the oil based spray like Rustcheck. Don't buy one of those electric units that the dealer will try to sell you. They don't work as advertised and will just kill your battery prematurely. As a tow truck driver, I constantly boost 2-3 year old cars with dead batteries and more times than not, there is one of the electric rust control modules attached to an inner fender and wired directly to the battery. By the way, I have a 94 Ford F150 that has been sprayed with Rustcheck yearly and has zero rust issues at 29 years old and 150,000 km. 

Last edited by mic'em (January 15, 2023 11:55 am)

 

January 15, 2023 12:04 pm  #17


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Thanks for the advice. I will try to ensure this one doesn't end up rusting like my current model. But at 17 years old, I think it's to be expected. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 15, 2023 12:19 pm  #18


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

To clarify my derail - I think Mazdas are generally good and reliable cars, but they are more prone to rust than most. I personally use Krown and I think it's effective - I've had an Elantra for twelve years as a daily driver and it's still rust-free.

Oil-based products (applied every year) are superior for rustproofing though they are messy. The electronic ones are far less effective on automobiles - though the technology is proven for boats. NEVER get the tar or rubber based coatings.

 

March 3, 2023 10:46 am  #19


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Well, it's finally here. I took delivery of my first new car in 17 years on Wednesday. And one of the very first things I did was set up the radio. Here are a couple of very early observations:

-Setting this thing up with the screen and the equivalent of a joystick-like knob was a pain in the drain. I know I'm going to be accused of being an old curmudgeon, (Okay Boomer!) but really, who asked for this? My old car had a volume control, a tuning knob and a few presets. I had it set up in about 3 minutes. This one took a lot longer and was, frankly, a huge pain-in-the-you-know-what. 

-The list on the screen displays all the AM & FM stations in the area. I was actually surprised how extensive it was, even including our old favourite, CFAJ St. Catharines at 1220 AM. The same for FM. But who or what generated this list? Does the radio automatically scan the dial silently in the background and then display what it finds? What happens in the unlikely event a new station is added - or even if a distant one not listed happens to be coming in on a given day? There is manual tuning as well, but I'm curous where this comes from.

-It's my very first experience with HD Radio. The young guy who walked me through the new vehicle at the dealership didn't seem too sure about even what it was. (The very idea of AM also seemed to confuse him a bit, and he admits he never listens to it.) I went searching for AM 640 and CFRB just to see how they came in. 

What surprised me was how long it took for the radio to tune in the signals on 95.3 and 99.9 respectively. There's a prolonged 10 secs. of silence while it finds the station I want - and even then, the audio is at least 5-10 seconds behind its AM counterpart. It's not a big deal, but is that the way it's supposed to work? Why is there such a long delay between one band and another?

Still, I will admit the sound on HD is quite impressive compared to the average AM output. 

-This thing comes with voice recognition. So if you want to tune in a station, you have to say a specific phrase: Tune In (station name or frequency.) It then dutifully tunes it in, but not before telling you it's doing it. I asked for CFRB as a test and then laughed out loud when it told me it was tuning to "One Oh, One Oh." 

-Finally, we've always known that most car radios get better reception than your average home models. But I was impressed with this one. I tried WHTT-FM at 104.1, which I can no longer get on any other radio in my house. But sure enough, it pulled it in fairly consistently. I can only wonder what might happen on a good tropo day, and what else might come in. Time, as they say, will tell. 

By the way, it did not come with a free 3 months of Sirius XM, which surprised me. But I probably wouldn't have listened to it much and at least I avoid all the harassing messages and phone calls I've been told by others seem to follow when the freebie expires. 

Anyway, thanks for all your advice about this vehicle. I find it has too many bells and whistles that I don't really need and being the neurotic I am, those will probably always annoy me, whereas most of you would simply ignore them. But it drives well and there's a long road ahead to see what else might be hidden in all those options. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 3, 2023 2:15 pm  #20


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

RadioActive wrote:

There's a prolonged 10 secs. of silence while it finds the station I want - and even then, the audio is at least 5-10 seconds behind its AM counterpart. It's not a big deal, but is that the way it's supposed to work? Why is there such a long delay between one band and another?

There's a bit written about this here:
https://www.thebdr.net/improving-two-experiences-at-once-through-hd-diversity-delay/

That page is focused on discussing what would ideally be a seamless blend between the HD signal and "dropping back" to the analog signal when the HD signal is not available (i.e. going under bridge, through a tunnel - digital is "all or nothing" unlike an analog signal which might gradually fade away or be present but with static) to keep time sync. But I believe your question is explained by this:

"The XPERI codec that processes the HD Radio signal is responsible for the typical eight-second delay.

Those delays can vary in either direction based on networking attributes. For example, E2X 2 (exporter to exgine) traffic moving over a corporate WAN is more likely to be affected by error correction, which will increase network latency. This is because the HD data is traveling a greater distance moving from the exporter to the remote transmitter site.

The longer the path to the transmitter site – and the more network switches signals pass though on the way – the worse the problem. But regardless of the amount of latency and delay, time and level alignment represent the most important parameters to deliver and maintain a pleasant HD Radio experience."

 

March 3, 2023 3:07 pm  #21


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Very interesting explanation. It kind of reminds me of the difference of turning an actual radio on or listening to the same station's feed online. There's always a few seconds delay between the live feed and the one your computer or phone processes. It's an odd artifact but it's one you have to live with. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 3, 2023 5:17 pm  #22


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

RadioActive wrote:

W
-Setting this thing up with the screen and the equivalent of a joystick-like knob was a pain in the drain. I know I'm going to be accused of being an old curmudgeon, (Okay Boomer!) but really, who asked for this? My old car had a volume control, a tuning knob and a few presets. I had it set up in about 3 minutes. This one took a lot longer and was, frankly, a huge pain-in-the-you-know-what.  

Nah, I had one of those in a rental car, and hated it. Maybe it's good once you're used to it and allows you change settings without taking your eye off the road, but a total pain for setup for sure.

 

March 3, 2023 5:25 pm  #23


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

I've always been one of those people who don't need "the latest and the greatest." Sometimes simple is the best option. 

I often hear people say, "Yeah but we have the technology, we might as well use it."

I'm sure glad those guys aren't in charge of the nuclear bomb!

     Thread Starter
 

March 3, 2023 5:52 pm  #24


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

RadioActive wrote:

....and even then, the audio is at least 5-10 seconds behind its AM counterpart. It's not a big deal, but is that the way it's supposed to work? Why is there such a long delay between one band and another?

The delay is not band related but rather the processing time involved in encoding and decoding the digital audio.  Same thing happened with digital OTA or cable TV, but now that analog TV is pretty much nonexistent, people don't really notice anymore.

In fact, as the HD1 main signal is overlayed on top of its analog counterpart, it is also artificially delayed by the exact same 8 secs to ensure a seamless transition when driving outside the HD signal's range and the radio automatically falls back to analog in a near seamless way.  Even when non-HD radios tunes in a station that has an HD radio transmitter, the analog audio will still be 8 seconds behind.  In most cases, this is not an issue, except for a station that broadcasts live sports where people get notified of a goal a few seconds before they hear it on the live broadcast.  This is why AM or FM analog radio is a better fit for sports, as it does not suffer from this additional broadcast delay.

FYI, HD radio is not exclusively on FM, there are a few HD radio stations on AM such as 530 CHLO.  Granted the audio quality is not the same as HD radio on FM but it does provide a significant improvement.

 

March 3, 2023 8:14 pm  #25


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Congrats RA , the dealership gives Sirius your number. You will get the calls , and could be months until they give up. Sorry. 

 

March 4, 2023 6:47 am  #26


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

I am confused by the delay issue on an HD! signal. I just tried 99.1 both analog and their HD1 and there was only maybe a split second delay. However between any HD2 signal and their analog counterpart their was a more significant delay of about 8 secs ??

Does it mean that the actual analog signal itself is delayed on a station that has an HD1 signal ?

Last edited by Fitz (March 4, 2023 6:52 am)


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March 4, 2023 8:51 am  #27


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

Fitz wrote:

Does it mean that the actual analog signal itself is delayed on a station that has an HD1 signal ?

I believe that's the case. PwrSurge wrote about that in his post #24 above:

"In fact, as the HD1 main signal is overlayed on top of its analog counterpart, it is also artificially delayed by the exact same 8 secs to ensure a seamless transition when driving outside the HD signal's range and the radio automatically falls back to analog in a near seamless way."


And in my link in my post #20 above which is about keeping digital and analog in sync, it refers to this:

"In either scenario, the automated time alignment functionality remains in the device at the transmitter site. The software program captures and correlates a 10-second audio range, and runs through a series of comparative analyses between the analog and digital signals. The comparisons are repeated until the exact time difference is pinpointed."


I think that's done for HD1 because that's the primary HD signal that will toggle in and out of the analog signal if the digital signal is not available. HD2 meanwhile might be broadcast AM or "additional" channels.

Last edited by AspectRatio (March 4, 2023 8:52 am)

 

March 4, 2023 11:44 am  #28


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

AspectRatio wrote:

Fitz wrote:

Does it mean that the actual analog signal itself is delayed on a station that has an HD1 signal ?

I believe that's the case. PwrSurge wrote about that in his post #24 above:

"In fact, as the HD1 main signal is overlayed on top of its analog counterpart, it is also artificially delayed by the exact same 8 secs to ensure a seamless transition when driving outside the HD signal's range and the radio automatically falls back to analog in a near seamless way."


And in my link in my post #20 above which is about keeping digital and analog in sync, it refers to this:

"In either scenario, the automated time alignment functionality remains in the device at the transmitter site. The software program captures and correlates a 10-second audio range, and runs through a series of comparative analyses between the analog and digital signals. The comparisons are repeated until the exact time difference is pinpointed."


I think that's done for HD1 because that's the primary HD signal that will toggle in and out of the analog signal if the digital signal is not available. HD2 meanwhile might be broadcast AM or "additional" channels.

That's what I thought however I was not 100 % sure what "artificially delayed" meant. Basically no one would hear the non delayed content except those at the station or at the station board but in light of the live sports example it makes sense.

HD2 goes silent when the HD signal goes out and you have to turn to another frequency or band, or web or nowhere ( HD2 for Indie 88.1) to get the same content. With the locals this scenario is not really an issue but with Buffalo, Hamilton and Oshawa stations it is.

 

Last edited by Fitz (March 4, 2023 11:54 am)


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March 17, 2023 8:41 am  #29


Re: A Few Questions About Car Radios

I'm hopeful this is my final question about this, but I discovered something yesterday than I didn't expect. I was listening to the headphone-radio I use when walking my dog and went out to the car without really thinking about it. 

When I got in the vehicle, I still had the small radio on and I started the engine. The car radio came on to a regular AM (not HD) station (it might have been 1010.) And that's when I noticed something I didn't expect. The car unit's output was slightly behind the one on my ears, maybe about a second or so, even though it was tuned to a normal analogue signal. 

How is that possible? Is it something about how the car processes even a regular non-digital signal? It's not a big deal, of course, but I had no idea it was possible for there to be a delay between one radio and another for a normal broadcast signal. It didn't do that in my old car. I'm curious if this is common in newer models. 

     Thread Starter