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June 22, 2022 12:32 pm  #1


Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/canada-passes-bill-compel-local-content-streaming-platforms-2022-06-21/

Oh Can-uh-duh.

There's already Canadian content but there's going to be more.

Look like show runners and streaming services are going to be up Schitt's Creek.

Last edited by betaylored (June 22, 2022 8:30 pm)

 

June 22, 2022 1:37 pm  #2


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

You can make whatever arguments you want about CanCon and streaming. I've made my position eminently clear about this over the past few months. But Bill C-11 passed with hardly any debate, and the Liberals seems to have an absolute obsession with it, introducing it twice after it died when the last election was called. 

My biggest objection, though, is not CanCon, which, I suppose, can be ignored if you simply refuse to watch it. The biggest problem I have is the CRTC having the power over user generated content and the ability to say who can post what. This is not my paranoid imagination. CRTC Chair Ian Scott admits the law gives them that power.  

The fact that he insists the Commission will never use it is of small comfort. 

The questions the government will not answer about this thing loom large and every Canadian should be worried about not getting any satisfactory responses. Among them:

-Why are they so obsessed with passing this thing that they cut off debate and the ability for other members to suggest amendments, and passed it late at night outside of the scrutiny of most people?

-Why will they stubbornly not listen to a host of experts about the implications of user generated content, even when two former CRTC commissioners, an ex-CRTC chair, a respected legal scholar and a ton of free speech organizations have all repeatedly sounded an alarm over this clause?

-And most importantly of all, if the government swears up and down from now until next year that they won't ever use this user censorship provision, why in the world do they continually refuse to take it out of the Bill? The fact they adamantly insist on leaving it in is all the answer you need. 

Despite what some here think, I'm not anti-Liberal or anti-government. But this affects several areas I'm very passionate about. And it doesn't inspire confidence when there are so many questions and so few answers.

 

June 22, 2022 2:33 pm  #3


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

"F--- Trudeau" is now that much more relevant. Because of this atrocious legislation and how fishy the parliamentary process was, I am sure as hell not voting Liberal or NDP in the next federal election. What is it with the Trudeau government and their bloody fetish with this garbage?

We do NOT need more Canadian content rammed into our listening/viewing options. We do NOT need more Indigenous content incorporated into what we watch and listen to. Just keep things as is. If it ain't broken, don't friggin' fix it!

 

June 23, 2022 10:55 am  #4


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

An interesting perspective from the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation:

"The truth is that Canadian content is thriving like never before. In 2020 alone, Canada’s film and television industry enjoyed $6 billion in foreign investment, up five per cent from the year prior. And Canadian films and shows are easy to find on streaming services like Netflix.

"If the sole rationale of Bill C-11 is to have Canadian content thrive and succeed online, then present data demonstrate that the legislation simply isn’t needed. The government could just scrap Bill C-11 and call it a day.

"The fact that Rodriguez and the Trudeau government are still aggressively pushing Bill C-11 in light of these facts demonstrates that the government’s motive is not, as it claims, to promote Canadian content. Rather, it is all about control.


More here.

 

June 23, 2022 10:59 am  #5


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

RadioActive wrote:

An interesting perspective from the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation:

"The truth is that Canadian content is thriving like never before. In 2020 alone, Canada’s film and television industry enjoyed $6 billion in foreign investment, up five per cent from the year prior. And Canadian films and shows are easy to find on streaming services like Netflix.

"If the sole rationale of Bill C-11 is to have Canadian content thrive and succeed online, then present data demonstrate that the legislation simply isn’t needed. The government could just scrap Bill C-11 and call it a day.

"The fact that Rodriguez and the Trudeau government are still aggressively pushing Bill C-11 in light of these facts demonstrates that the government’s motive is not, as it claims, to promote Canadian content. Rather, it is all about control.


More here.

Bingo.
 


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

June 23, 2022 9:04 pm  #6


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

CRTC Chair Ian Scott addressed the Senate on Thursday, pleading his case for Bill C-11. This part of his speech particularly got my attention:

"There is one misconception about this Bill that I would like to address today. Some have suggested that Bill C-11 would give the CRTC regulatory power over user-generated online content. 

"We take a different view. The Bill draws a bright line between the users of social media and the platforms themselves. The powers granted to the CRTC under the proposed legislation would require us to, for example, ensure social media platforms support the development of Canadian programs, and make content discoverable and accessible to persons with disabilities. They would not, however, extend to regulating individual users."


"We take a different view." Oh do you Ian? But aren't you the one who was quoted directly as admitting that the Bill would give you that exact power, amidst promises that you would never use it. But nice to have it in your back pocket, just in case you need it, right? 

I've asked this over and over and over again, without ever getting a single satisfactory answer: if you never plan to use it, why won't the government take this provision out? Until that question is fully addressed, I will never trust this thing.

They were never going to use The Emergencies Act, either. Until, of course, they did. 

I just hope the Senate truly is the chamber of sober second thought. It's bad enough that broadcasters are under the thumb of these morons. The only thing worse would be putting all of us there, too. 

Perhaps Mr. Scott can mark the occasion of his speech by going out for a drink with his best bud, Bell CEO Mirko Bibic, as they celebrate screwing the public - again. 

Text of Scott's speech

 

June 23, 2022 9:21 pm  #7


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

I think those who are OK with the government having control over user generated content should consider whether they'd still feel that way if Pierre Pollievre were PM.


 
 

June 23, 2022 9:32 pm  #8


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

My exact thought, as well. Despite what it seems, the Liberals will not always be in charge. Politics is very cyclical. Would they want their political enemies to be able to wield this power? The answer seems obvious. 

 

June 23, 2022 10:27 pm  #9


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

The Emergencies Act and Bill C-11 have nothing to do with each other.  Of course the government didn't plan to use the Emergencies Act when it was introduced, no government does. However legally something needs to be on the books in case it is needed.
 
Same with the Emergency Measures Act back in 1970.  Using this act 52 years ago was the single most popular action that the government of the day did and had support from Canadians coast to coast. Also it put an end to the ongoing FLQ crisis. 
   
Recently most Canadians surveyed (66%) agreed with the government using the newer Emergencies Act to clear out the blockade problem in Ottawa.  In fact many wished the government had brought it in sooner.  So trying to tie this into the debate about C-11 is pointless and foolish. Of course Sun/Post Media and a few on here are trying to continue with the outrage on this but most Canadians wisely have moved on, and don't care that the government brought in the act.  There are many more issues that are much more important right now. 

Again all of this hand wringing about C-11 is just a tactic to delay the bill, same as all of these "troubling unanswered questions".  Everyone knows that people who are always whining about their freedom will never have these "unanswered questions" responded to their satisfaction anyway. 

Besides, nothing is cast in stone, if the government is foolish enough to abuse their power or if C-11 isn't workable, the next government or even this one can make amendments or a complete overhaul. The bill is there to try and keep the bad, evil, vile stuff off of the internet not to tell people what they can and can't say on a forum like SOWNY.  This is not that hard to understand, to imply otherwise is just paranoid fear mongering.

Many people against C-11 really want nothing to change with the internet and just let the big six conglomerates continue unregulated, make their billions every year and be accountable to nobody.  That is not freedom and not healthy.  No other business is allowed to operate this way.  Why should Tik Tok, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter etc. continue to be unregulated?  Why and how have they earned this right that nobody else or no other businesses have?  Odd how this is never answered.

All of this handwringing is just a bogus sideshow to waste everyone's time, and to try and whip up support to keep everything the way it is. 

But at least I give RA some credit this time, he didn't compare Canada to Russia again. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/whistling.png
 

 

June 23, 2022 11:21 pm  #10


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

paterson1 wrote:

The Emergencies Act and Bill C-11 have nothing to do with each other.  Of course the government didn't plan to use the Emergencies Act when it was introduced, no government does. However legally something needs to be on the books in case it is needed.

I'm not comparing C-11 to The Emergencies Act. I'm comparing the government's credibility on the issue. They were fairly adamant when the Act was created that it would take almost a nuclear incident to use it. But when it was expedient to save them politically, they reached for it. Almost every expert I've heard on this issue agrees this set a precedent that future governments can use to justify doing the same thing. I'm no fan of those idiots in the convoys. But this was overkill and I believe most ethicists agree with that opinion. 

paterson1 wrote:

There are many more issues that are much more important right now.

Of course. There always are. But this happens to be one I'm most passionate about. And when the government is wrong, it's wrong. I'm sorry you don't include freedom of speech in that "important" category.  

paterson1 wrote:

the next government or even this one can make amendments or a complete overhaul.

This one has never shown any desire to "make amendments" and in fact, purposely cut off all debate about any changes, so they could get this to the senate before the summer break. It's far more likely they'll use it to their own advantage. This IS government after all, and I've rarely found one of any stripe that I would call trustworthy.  

paterson1 wrote:

 The bill is there to try and keep the bad, evil, vile stuff off of the internet not to tell people what they can and can't say on a forum like SOWNY.  This is not that hard to understand, to imply otherwise is just paranoid fear mongering.

Then please, answer the one question no one seems to be willing to - if there's no intention to ever use this power, why are they so adamantly insisting it remain in the bill? I could live (reluctantly) with all the other provisions, but this one goes way too far. And as I've pointed out before, far greater minds than I'll ever be have all raised this question, to no avail - or answer.

Including former members of the CRTC who know the agency better than anyone. Are they all paranoid crazies? 

paterson1 wrote:

But at least I give RA some credit this time, he didn't compare Canada to Russia again. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/whistling.png
 

Well, I wouldn't want to disappoint you, so I'll just note that no other modern western country in the world is taking things this far. You know who does censor the Internet at the government's whim? Russia. China. North Korea. Cuba. I'd much rather not be a member of that club, thank you. And no, this issue is not as serious as those rogue regimes. But I have no desire to follow even slightly in those despotic footsteps. In fact, most of Canada's allies have openly expressed alarm at the direction we seem to heading with this law. They don't understand why we're veering down this road. And neither do I.

It boggles my mind that any threat to your freedom of speech seems not to concern you at all. Once lost, even if just a small amount, it is very hard to get back. 

 

June 24, 2022 6:59 am  #11


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

RadioActive wrote:

My exact thought, as well. Despite what it seems, the Liberals will not always be in charge. Politics is very cyclical. Would they want their political enemies to be able to wield this power? The answer seems obvious. 

We must never take our freedoms for granted.


 


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

June 24, 2022 8:13 am  #12


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

Another instance where the man who was insisting on the legislation (Heritage Minister Pablo Rodriguez) and the man who will be charged with carrying out its provisions (CRTC Chair Ian Scott) appear to be diametrically opposed as to what the law actually demands. 

In this case, it's about forcing YouTube to change its algorithms to make CanCon more "discoverable." 

From The Canadian Press:

"Ian Scott told a Senate committee examining the bill that although the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission would not want to manipulate algorithms itself, it might tell platforms, “I want you to manipulate it (the algorithm) to produce particular outcomes.”

As if that statement isn't already contradictory and confusing enough, ("we won't ask you to change it but we might ask you to change it,") later in the same article there's this:

"But Heritage Minister Pablo Rodriguez has publicly said the bill will not lead to platforms being asked to manipulate their algorithms." 


So which one is it? The guy in charge of carrying out the new law says one thing. The guy who introduced it and shoved it into the senate with all due haste says the exact opposite. It would almost be funny if it weren't so serious.

If there are any here who wonder why this thing is of so much concern to so many and seems to be so poorly thought out, there's a perfect example. 

YouTube might be asked to manipulate algorithms under online streaming bill: CRTC chair

 

June 24, 2022 8:38 am  #13


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

I'm seriously starting to suspect this Bill is actually part of a comedy sketch and we're all being punked. Check this out for extreme absurdity:

Canada set to censor internet porn to ensure it’s 'Canadian' enough

From the article:

"Regulating porn would be nothing new for the CRTC. Canada’s many adult-oriented cable channels must already adhere to stringent Canadian Content requirements enforced by the CRTC. In 2014, a Toronto-based creator of erotic channels was even threatened with having their licence pulled for failing to ensure that at least 35 per cent of their adult content was Canadian — the equivalent of 8.5 hours of Canadian porn per day. The channels — which included XXX Action Clips and the gay-oriented Maleflixxx —  also received a CRTC reprimand for failing to include sufficient closed captioning."

Honestly, you can't make this stuff up. 

 

June 24, 2022 9:16 am  #14


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

Sorry my comments boggle your mind but my freedoms of speech and yours are not threatened by Bill C-11.  Freedom is a cornerstone of Canadian society, and most people realize that freedom like anything else is not absolute. You and others may think it is, but this just shows a lack of understanding.

 There are rules, responsibility and maturity that are hand in hand with freedom, and always have been.  Many, including yourself never talk about this or maybe don't agree.  Those protesting in Washington on Jan 6th, a former president, and many in his government also didn't understand this.  The world witnessed the sorry sad results of a great democracy falling apart.  Also witnessed a government who forgot what democracy and freedom is actually about. 

The Emergencies Act, may have been overkill to some, but similar to the former War Measures Act, criticism and hindsight is 20/20.  In both cases it brought a bad situation to an end.  The real question of the government's credibility is not that they used these acts, but if they hadn't.  In both cases the convoy truckers and the terrorists in the FLQ were breaking the law and interfering with the lives and freedom of millions of people.                                    

Most Canadians, whether you or "most ethicists" like it or not, agreed with what the government did.  Many wished the government had been more decisive and brought it in sooner.  It is just certain media organizations that are always yapping about their rights and freedoms and some in the Conservative party that are trying to keep this going.  Get over this please, because Canadians have.

Sorry I don't share your paranoid untrusting faith in government. If you want to live that way, knock yourself out, but leave me out of your world please.   We have good and bad governments and the bad governments tend to lose in elections.

This government, with this leader will not win again.  However it does not mean that EVERYTHING they are doing or proposing is wrong.  Sorry you are so untrusting of any government, or feel that they are out to undermine your way of life.  I can't think of an example where any local, provincial or federal government in Canada purposely was out to ruin or harm the life of citizens.  Guess you know something I don't. 

Most Canadians have faith in our democracy, which by every standard is one of the best.  In 2021 The Economists Intelligence Democracy Index determined that Canada had the 7th best democracy in the world. Norway had the highest score with a 9.87 and Canada was 9.22.  The top ten most democratic countries (which didn't include the UK, France, US, and Germany) were all considered to be full democracies.  Those not in the top ten were flawed democracies or worse. 

I have answered the question regarding if they don't intend on using it then why is it on the books.  I guess you didn't understand or didn't like the answer.  Government never intend to use these tools or acts as I mentioned such as the War Measures and Emergencies Acts.  However since everything is legal now, something needs to be there and allows the government of the day to act quickly.  There are hundreds of bills and acts on the books that are never used, but are still there.

All of these allies that are concerned about what Canada is doing sure seem pretty quiet.  You keep talking about this, but I have only read one reference a few months ago in the National Post from some conservative official in Europe.  I have never heard anyone in the US government saying they were concerned about C-11. I am sure some probably have, but it hasn't been very prominent.  Even the social media giants haven't been very vocal.  Why is that?  Maybe because other countries are doing the same thing or something similar?

 

June 24, 2022 10:04 am  #15


Re: Canadian gov passes bill to CanCon compel Netflix et all

Not media related but free speech related…

Pierre Poilievre is proposing a “Free Speech Guardian” for Canadian Universities.

That’s just as Big Brother as anything else I have heard in this discussion.