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May 3, 2021 10:30 am  #1


Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

The list, from a site called HDRadio.com, appears to show there really aren't that many HD stations in the country, with most of them located in the GTA. But I'm guessing it's still not enough to get the majority of us to deliberately buy an HD Radio. 

Canadian HD Radio List

 

May 3, 2021 1:15 pm  #2


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Not complete for the Toronto area.  The list is missing the following stations:

88.1 CIND
92.1 CKPC
96.3  CFMZ
103.5  CIDC

The information given is also very confusing.  For example, there are no AM HD stations in Toronto although the list might make you think so.  900 CHML listed as 900 HD3 is found on CING 95.3 HD3 and CFRB is on CKFM 99.9 HD2 not 1010 HD2.  The listing for 92.5 CKIS FM HD2 is actually 680 News.  It's a terrible presentation!

I have a list somewhere of HD stations in the Toronto area that I can post.  This includes several Buffalo stations.

- Mike
 

Last edited by mjf (May 3, 2021 1:16 pm)

 

May 3, 2021 4:17 pm  #3


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

There's several mistakes in there for Vancouver:

- CFMI 101.1 HD2 is listed as "70s 80s 90s", but in fact HD2 repeats CKNW.
- CHQM 103.5 is shown as having TSN on HD2 and HD3, but that's no longer the case; no idea if they repeat the AM signals that are still on 1040 and 1410 in Vancouver.
- CJAX 96.9 HD3 is missing; this one repeats Sportsnet 650.
- CKNW 980 most definitely doesn't broadcast a digital signal on AM.

Last edited by MJ Vancouver (May 3, 2021 4:27 pm)

 

May 3, 2021 4:33 pm  #4


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Does anyone know how many people are actually listening to HD? Between a lack of radios and just a general lack of awareness, it can't be a huge audience. 

     Thread Starter
 

May 3, 2021 5:34 pm  #5


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Hows HD looking for the CN Tower stuff?

 

May 3, 2021 5:40 pm  #6


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

They are sending out ppm on HD signals in ppm markets... but most newer cars now come with HD standard.   The biggest issues are lack of unique content on HD, lack of promotion of HD and unique content, and lack of push by the industry to ensure all radios sold for home and car have HD by standard.   

You can't get people to care if they don't know it's there, and they won't care for simply screaming "get what you get now in HD".     Once original, unique content is there, and promoted, perhaps someone may care.     Durham and Bell both do in fact offer some content that is unique... (Wave - Smooth Jazz and Pure Country).   I think if it was promoted, perhaps more would care about it.   Until that day... slow discovery as more people upgrade cars.

The other way, would be like digital ota tv was done, and have a firm all digital flip date perhaps may work.... but there isn't as much push from the industry for such a move. 

Last edited by radiokid (May 3, 2021 5:42 pm)

 

May 3, 2021 5:46 pm  #7


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Totally agree - if there's no compelling reason beyond "better quality" then it just won't matter. It's kind of like the subcarriers on Buffalo TV. If all they had was something you could see somewhere else, who would tune them in?

Original programming or something that adds to the value of their on-air product would be a major lure. Otherwise, who's going to the trouble (in a car) or the expense (for those who don't have a receiver that can get it?)

     Thread Starter
 

May 3, 2021 6:38 pm  #8


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

radiokid wrote:

They are sending out ppm on HD signals in ppm markets... but most newer cars now come with HD standard.   The biggest issues are lack of unique content on HD, lack of promotion of HD and unique content, and lack of push by the industry to ensure all radios sold for home and car have HD by standard.   

You can't get people to care if they don't know it's there, and they won't care for simply screaming "get what you get now in HD".     Once original, unique content is there, and promoted, perhaps someone may care.     Durham and Bell both do in fact offer some content that is unique... (Wave - Smooth Jazz and Pure Country).   I think if it was promoted, perhaps more would care about it.   Until that day... slow discovery as more people upgrade cars.

The other way, would be like digital ota tv was done, and have a firm all digital flip date perhaps may work.... but there isn't as much push from the industry for such a move. 

Lack of promotion is probably the biggest issue. Aside from IDs, I've only once heard HD radio promoted on-air once, and it was last week on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver when the morning hosts mentioned that they can also be found on 96.9 HD3. I don't ever remember HD radio promoted in that way on Toronto radio when I lived there.

Last edited by MJ Vancouver (May 4, 2021 11:30 am)

 

May 3, 2021 6:42 pm  #9


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

GNR640 regularly runs a promo for their HD signal, which is located on Corus' FM station in Hamilton. It uses static, distortion, even the TTC streetcar wires to try to point out the advantages of tuning in the better sound. But I don't know how many people it influences. Other than that, I rarely hear anyone in the GTA really talk about their HD signals - if they have one. 

     Thread Starter
 

May 3, 2021 10:05 pm  #10


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

There is more that is wrong or incomplete on that list than right.

The biggest problem is that AM stations that happen to be on FM HDs are listed as though they actually have HD signals themselves.

Not a great look from the company in charge of promoting HD.

 


 
 

May 4, 2021 11:21 am  #11


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

The other variable that drives me crazy is the inconsistency of "display" info that stations transmit for their HD 2's, 3's and 4's. Case in point.  CHKX 94.7 hamilton, has its HD-2 "Wave.fm" logo that appears on some car radios in colour.  (2013 vintage VW comes to mind) and some artist info.  On the 2021 Tesla models, the station info only appears as CHKX-2, 3, etc when you tune the radio and set the pre-sets as favourites.  No colour logo, no differentiation of the HD 2, 3 feeds by name.  Same with Rogers'   92.5.  680 news and FAN 590 only appear as HD-2 and HD-3. Some stations do have a 2ndary display on the top of the giant touch screen listing limited (alpha numeric) station info, and song titles.  I believe Ibiquity or whatever the venture capital firm is now called, should have devoted more resources with the car industry to standardize the display of logos, station slogans, etc.   For most people differentiating an HD-2 from HD-3 signal is a challenge and extremely frustrating.   As others have observed, Tesla has nuked AM radios in their vehicles, so those of us who have bought the cars, are fully dependant on the HD radio reception for the S. Ontario AM's that are replicated on HD.  I suspect that as the automotive market moves over to more EV's, in the next decade or two, the reception of the AM stations as HD2 and 3s will become more important.  And yes, because I know someone may ask, I have tried to use an AM radio in the car (Sangean) and it's worse than sitting under a TTC streetcar line by a factor of 5 or 10, even if you use a really good AM radio.   The noise on AM from the Car's electronic systems just overpowers AM.  Bear in mind that the top of the Telsa is completely  glass from windshield to back trunk so AM signals can penetrate the car.  If I was running a big broadcasting company (which I don't) I would be concerned that the ability to access their AM stations with the best possible user-interface/experience, across various models of cars, was a priority.  But then the "bean counters" don't care.  They probably don't even know that their companies have AM stations on HD.  Not to gloat, but the HD radio pre-sets are to date the only annoyance that I have found, owning an EV.  But with local gas prices now at around $1.40 per litre, for mid-grade gas (that we needed to use in our internal combustion vehicle), we smile a lot these days as we silently glide by gas stations.  To date the hydro bill has barely gone up a blip.

Last edited by tvguy (May 4, 2021 11:33 am)

 

Yesterday 8:47 am  #12


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Here's a list of what I receive in the VW in central Etobicoke.  CKPC, CJKX and most of the Buffalo stations drop out of HD quite a bit while driving around.

https://i.ibb.co/FwgFG50/image.png

 

Yesterday 8:57 am  #13


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

tvguy wrote:

The other variable that drives me crazy is the inconsistency of "display" info that stations transmit for their HD 2's, 3's and 4's

Yep.  Look at CIND HD2, "Real Rock".  All I get on my display is three lines of the text "HD2".  No mention of the station name. On the other hand, more and more stations are transmitting their logos in colour.  CIDC just added theirs.  The VW radio adds the logo to the preset when you save it.  I have a "680 News" button in glorious green and white!  I noticed a couple of stations sending artist/album pictures.  I think it was Wave and The Grand.

 

Yesterday 9:19 am  #14


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioActive wrote:

Does anyone know how many people are actually listening to HD? Between a lack of radios and just a general lack of awareness, it can't be a huge audience. 

Time to buy yourself a new car RA. That's where a lot of the awareness seems to be. HD radios in cars. 
Not much mention elsewhere though. I wonder why that is? 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

Yesterday 9:33 am  #15


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

mjf wrote:

Here's a list of what I receive in the VW in central Etobicoke.  CKPC, CJKX and most of the Buffalo stations drop out of HD quite a bit while driving around.

https://i.ibb.co/FwgFG50/image.png

Turns out I AM looking for a new car, but I find it hard to justify when everything is locked down. Higher insurance costs and watching it depreciate as it basically sits in my garage except for a once or twice a week outing to the few places that are open seems like a waste to me.  

I'm not sure if HD is standard in most new car "entertainment systems" (remember when we just called it a "radio?") but I'd have to think long and hard before deciding if I'd pay extra for one.  

By the way, in MJF's excellent list, he refers to Channel Q as an HD offering on WTSS. I'd never heard of it before. Turns out it's an Audacy-created station aimed at the LGBTQ community. It's not something I would listen to, but until more stations start using their extra signal space for something original - and not just a rebroadcast of their AM or FM signals - I can't see that HD will ever become a big deal. 

So for those who have one, let me ask: is it worth it? Do you find yourself listening to stations on HD more? Or is it just a once-in-a-while curiosity?

     Thread Starter
 

Yesterday 10:50 am  #16


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioActive wrote:

So for those who have one, let me ask: is it worth it? Do you find yourself listening to stations on HD more? Or is it just a once-in-a-while curiosity?

I know this isn't exactly what you mean, but I listen to HD all the time on stations where I don't have a choice, as both my HD-equipped radios don't let me choose analog if HD is present.

As for sub-channels, HD is how I exclusively listen to AM stations. In fact, my desktop HD radio doesn't have an AM tuner. My wife occasionally puts on Pure Country on 99.9-4.
 


 
 

Yesterday 10:51 am  #17


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Radiowiz wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

Does anyone know how many people are actually listening to HD? Between a lack of radios and just a general lack of awareness, it can't be a huge audience. 

Time to buy yourself a new car RA. That's where a lot of the awareness seems to be. HD radios in cars. 
Not much mention elsewhere though. I wonder why that is? 

Buying a car essentially forces you to buy a radio. Not a lot of stand-alone radios being sold for outside the car.


 
 

Yesterday 10:56 am  #18


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioAaron wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

So for those who have one, let me ask: is it worth it? Do you find yourself listening to stations on HD more? Or is it just a once-in-a-while curiosity?

I know this isn't exactly what you mean, but I listen to HD all the time on stations where I don't have a choice, as both my HD-equipped radios don't let me choose analog if HD is present.

As for sub-channels, HD is how I exclusively listen to AM stations. In fact, my desktop HD radio doesn't have an AM tuner. My wife occasionally puts on Pure Country on 99.9-4.
 

Sorry, are you saying your radios automatically tune to HD instead of AM or FM if the former signal, duplicating an existing station, is present? Not that you'd want to, but are you able to manually tune in, say, an AM version if the HD also exists, or does the equipment decide? I'm not entirely sure I like it when the machine won't let the human make the choice.

     Thread Starter
 

Yesterday 11:02 am  #19


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

They automatically tune HD over FM, yes....no choice. I can still manually choose AM on the one radio that has an AM tuner. The desktop radio doesn't have an AM tuner at all.


 
 

Yesterday 11:16 am  #20


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioAaron wrote:

They automatically tune HD over FM, yes....no choice. I can still manually choose AM on the one radio that has an AM tuner. The desktop radio doesn't have an AM tuner at all.

I hate when they remove user choice like that. But if it suits your needs, I'm happy that it works for you.
 
I would never buy a tuner without an AM radio in it. There are still a large number of stations that do not have an HD component and I wouldn't want to lose access to those. But I do fear it's the way of the future and someday down the road, you won't be able to find one anymore. 

     Thread Starter
 

Yesterday 11:27 am  #21


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

Does it bother one that the HD feed for the FAN is delayed 30 sec from the AM? The Jays could have already won or lost when the play is described on HD...( I annoyed my family when the radio was live and the TV delayed and I cheered before the TV showed the game winning hit)

 

Yesterday 11:43 am  #22


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioActive wrote:

mjf wrote:

I'm not sure if HD is standard in most new car "entertainment systems" (remember when we just called it a "radio?") but I'd have to think long and hard before deciding if I'd pay extra for one.  

By the way, in MJF's excellent list, he refers to Channel Q as an HD offering on WTSS. I'd never heard of it before. Turns out it's an Audacy-created station aimed at the LGBTQ community. It's not something I would listen to, but until more stations start using their extra signal space for something original - and not just a rebroadcast of their AM or FM signals - I can't see that HD will ever become a big deal. 

So for those who have one, let me ask: is it worth it? Do you find yourself listening to stations on HD more? Or is it just a once-in-a-while curiosity?

When I was between cars two years ago I was using Zipcar, which was using new cars (2017 or 2018 model years). Out of maybe six different cars I tried, only one of them included HD radio. I think it was a VW Jetta.

I also rented an SUV one time at Vancouver's airport back then, I recall it also had HD radio.

 

Yesterday 12:26 pm  #23


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioActive wrote:

I hate when they remove user choice like that. But if it suits your needs, I'm happy that it works for you.
 

It doesn't, fully. On the desktop I'd prefer analog for FM. The stations that jam sub-channels in have notable digital distortion.

The lack of AM tuner doesn't bother me, as the few stations I'm interested in are all on HD.


 
 

Yesterday 12:27 pm  #24


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

WPE9HAY wrote:

Does it bother one that the HD feed for the FAN is delayed 30 sec from the AM? The Jays could have already won or lost when the play is described on HD...( I annoyed my family when the radio was live and the TV delayed and I cheered before the TV showed the game winning hit)

Given that HD is almost exclusively used in cars, it probably goes un-noticed.


 
 

Yesterday 1:01 pm  #25


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioAaron wrote:

They automatically tune HD over FM, yes....no choice. I can still manually choose AM on the one radio that has an AM tuner. The desktop radio doesn't have an AM tuner at all.

The VW radio lets you turn off HD.  AM and FM each have their own independent setting.
 

 

Yesterday 1:08 pm  #26


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

RadioActive wrote:

So for those who have one, let me ask: is it worth it? Do you find yourself listening to stations on HD more? Or is it just a once-in-a-while curiosity?

It came free with the car https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/cool.png

Similar to what others have mentioned, I listen to 680 News on HD when I'm near my office in downtown Toronto.  As soon as I hit the intersection at King and Church, the streetcar RFI wipes the AM signal out.  With the HD station, I can listen throughout downtown and into the P1 level of our parking garage where the AM is non-existent.  Classical 96.3 is better in HD because there is no flutter or other distortion as you drive around.  I sometimes listen to The Grand, even though the audio isn't that great, because it mixes with WBUF on FM.
 

 

Yesterday 3:51 pm  #27


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

mjf wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

They automatically tune HD over FM, yes....no choice. I can still manually choose AM on the one radio that has an AM tuner. The desktop radio doesn't have an AM tuner at all.

The VW radio lets you turn off HD.  AM and FM each have their own independent setting.
 

So I didn't mis-remember the VW Jetta I drove a few times when I used ZipCar. HD reception in the part of Burnaby, BC I lived in at the time was terrible, but I was pretty sure I had been able to turn it off and listen to straight FM. (I had been living in an area where there was a mountain in between me and the transmitter)

 

Yesterday 5:14 pm  #28


Re: Is This List Of All HD Radio In Canada Complete?

I've had a couple rentals where you could turn the HD off (and even one where it was tricky to turn it on) so I guess I just got unlucky. Cheap stock radio - I was actually surprised it had HD in the first place.