Would need to be FM. Best fit in Toronto would be flipping CFNY as they’ve lost the battle to Indie. Been preaching the format for ages...originally developed by the brilliant Walt Sabo. My favourite example is 102.5 The Bone in Tampa. Like an alt rock station without music. Their last book they were 3rd (with a 5.1 12+) in a very competitive radio market, and if you dig into the demos, it’s the advertiser’s favourites. I think the afternoon guy - Drew Garabo - is their strongest, Not sure all the names you mention would be a fit. 
https://www.theboneonline.com/
 

paterson1 wrote:

Didn't MOJO 640 have the hot talk format back in 2000?  They had Talk Radio for Guys for about 4-5 years and then became AM 640 and moved more mainstream.  Maybe a little ahead of it's time or would FM work better?  

Definitely an FM format. The bulk of the demo has abandoned AM. MOJO was in the ballpark format-wise, though the branding was maybe a little too on-the-nose. Yes, the main Hot Talk demo is men 25-54, but a surprising number of women tune in too.

Last edited by Holliday (March 28, 2021 11:38 am)

Holliday wrote:

Would need to be FM. Best fit in Toronto would be flipping CFNY as they’ve lost the battle to Indie. Been preaching the format for ages...originally developed by the brilliant Walt Sabo. My favourite example is 102.5 The Bone in Tampa. Like an alt rock station without music. Their last book they were 3rd (with a 5.1 12+) in a very competitive radio market, and if you dig into the demos, it’s the advertiser’s favourites. I think the afternoon guy - Drew Garabo - is their strongest, Not sure all the names you mention would be a fit. 
https://www.theboneonline.com/
 

CFNY would be a great fit for the Hot Talk format.  Also having Q107 as a brother station gives excellent opportunities for cross promo.  Toronto radio needs a shake up.  Seems stagnant when compared to other markets like Vancouver, Ottawa or Calgary/Edmonton.

Toronto should also have an FM country outlet too. Like Vancouver, a country FM would be more popular in the GTA than many think.  I still find it strange that Canada's biggest, richest radio market has no country station.  Yes I know the city is urbane, multicultural, modern and supposedly worldly, but so is Vancouver and country radio has been very popular in that city for a long time.  

Radiowiz wrote:

I don't think Corus wants to pour money into a Hot talk format for Toronto's FM 102 unless there are other Corus FM stations struggling that could also pick up a national approach to the idea...?
 

That’s a problem. Most shows have multiple cast members, and it is an expensive format. Not sure Corus had that kind of risk tolerance. You’ve got to spend money to make money, but a lot of the majors are looking for ways to spend less money.
 

Radiowiz wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

Toronto should also have an FM country outlet too. Like Vancouver, a country FM would be more popular in the GTA than many think.  I still find it strange that Canada's biggest, richest radio market has no country station.  Yes I know the city is urbane, multicultural, modern and supposedly worldly, but so is Vancouver and country radio has been very popular in that city for a long time.  

That's exactly it. 
It might be a lot easier for Corus to put a Country 104 repeater on Toronto's FM 102 (with local content where needed) than it might be to go Hot Talk, may even be more profitable also. 

I think they would need to go all in with country.  Go big or don't bother.   You can't have the Toronto station as a repeater, that wouldn't work.  Actually I would rather see an outside group like Pattison Broadcasting run a country station in Toronto.  They seem to do well with the format and run the Vancouver country outlet.  I don't know if Corus still has their radio division up for sale.  It would be interesting to see Pattison buy the Corus stations in Ontario.  And even more interesting to see what changes they would make to some of the stations. 

Just my 2 cents that means nothing..

ONLY if they didn't make money with Edge or any FM, would they consider doing this.   If anything they would drop 640 and focus on 1 station doing talk in house.   It's expensive and to have 2 in house doing it, may be a hard sell to the budget makers.    I think we are heading to an FM commercial talk, news or newstalk, as AM is a hard sell under 35.     I also think there is some formats that are currently over congested and hard to give performance numbers because of it (like doing hot ac/adult chr on 95-3).    Should 102-1 or 95-3 not be profitable (outside ratings), its possible to try something new like FM talk.   The issue is if you do it on 102-1, is 640 worth keeping around?    Or 95-3, is it worth keeping 900 around?    Music you can get anywhere... talk you can't...  I think it's only a matter of time before someone dumps music to try it on FM, and Corus likely has the best shot based on stations available, but if the clients are paying the bills, they will be happy to continue with their 1-3 share point doing music

Last edited by radiokid (March 29, 2021 1:23 pm)

Rune wrote:

I can't see any Canadian media company putting a Talk format on FM. It's too expensive but I think the problem with these companies is a sort of inertia. No one wants to take a chance because what happens if it doesn't work? I'll tell you what happens. The person who made the decision to take a chance will take the blame for it. That's why we keep hearing the same stuff over and over again. We should have had a Triple A station years ago but if there's no guarantee of success, it won't happen.

Triple A would get about 1.1 share in Toronto.  It's  middle to old aged white guy music and Toronto is a very diverse city.

Prod Guy wrote:

Triple A would get about 1.1 share in Toronto.  It's  middle to old aged white guy music and Toronto is a very diverse city.

I’m less pessimistic with Triple-A. It tends to do well in markets that had a heritage modern rock station.

CBC had a great opportunity with Radio 2, but seem forever beholden to those elderly classical music fans, ending up in a programming mish-mash.

For a comparable market, I look at Chicago. Comparable in size and demos to Toronto. Entercom has a Triple-A station there that pulled a 3.8 in the most recent PPM.

Radiowiz wrote:

Holliday wrote:

For a comparable market, I look at Chicago. Comparable in size and demos to Toronto. Entercom has a Triple-A station there that pulled a 3.8 in the most recent PPM.

What happens when you add 35-40% Can Con to that though?  
 

Nothing....there are plenty of AAA Canadian artists...

AAA formats include album cuts from mainstream artists and alternative artists.  Why does a Canadian AAA station automatically need to be the same as an American one?  Would it be that way in Britain or Australia?  Not likely.

There are plenty of popular Canadian alternative artists and album cuts for this type of format.  CBC 2 is doing something similar to AAA (other than the classical block mornings), and they play 80-100% cancon.   In Vancouver CBC 2 has a 5.2% share and 3.8% in Calgary, 2.5% in Toronto. 

So a commercial AAA station playing 35 or 40% cancon is not an issue.  The only issue is that Toronto broadcasters are adverse to taking chances and not very inventive.  Any AAA station here will never be exactly as in the US and it shouldn't be.  There are tons of great alternative cancon artists and material that would fit the format perfectly, and music that is rarely heard now.   Would the station find the audience is another matter, and CBC 2 which isn't promoted much, has been gaining popularity and could be a bit of a problem for a commercial outlet. 

And you will likely find a station with this format or a variation of it in another market before Toronto.  Likely we have some similar already with university/college radio but these don't show up on NUMERIS.

paterson1 wrote:

Holliday wrote:

Prod Guy wrote:

Triple A would get about 1.1 share in Toronto.  It's  middle to old aged white guy music and Toronto is a very diverse city.

I’m less pessimistic with Triple-A. It tends to do well in markets that had a heritage modern rock station.

CBC had a great opportunity with Radio 2, but seem forever beholden to those elderly classical music fans, ending up in a programming mish-mash.

For a comparable market, I look at Chicago. Comparable in size and demos to Toronto. Entercom has a Triple-A station there that pulled a 3.8 in the most recent PPM.

In the latest ratings for Vancouver, Pattison Radio's The Peak (CKPK) which has an AAA format also had a 3.8% share.  Not bad when you consider that CBC 2 had 5.2%. So this format does well on the coast. 

The Peak in Vancouver is no longer triple A. but simply alternative. Van had two commercial AAA stations for a while but no more.

Also I noticed that CBC music has trended a lot more pop recently and is falling almost out of triple A at least during the morning drive.