The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Will 1220 AM & Oldies Live Again In St. Catharines?

RadioActive · April 16, 2016 10:09 pm

The CRTC will answer that question this coming week, when they hear the licence application for a new station at 1220, the former home of CHSC. Power would be 10K day and night, with a purported format of classic hits. The station would be known as "1220 Grapevine Radio," likely to associate it with the wine growing industry that dominates the area.

Seems odd to try that kind of music on AM in that market but stranger things have happened. It plans to use the existing CHSC towers and pattern, thus obviating the need for expensive studies and technical approval, since they worked for the frequency's former occupant.

1220 AM Application

Here are some sample music playlists taken from its application. Looks (sounds?) like a lot of the same old same old same oldies...

Morning Show
Mamma Mia ---------------- ABBA
Slip Slidin Away ----------- Paul Simon
Doctor My Eyes ------------ Jackson Browne
Easy -------------------------- Commodores
How Much I Feel ---------- Ambrosia
Cruel To Be Kind ---------- Nick Lowe
Get Closer ------------------ Seals And Croft
Conquistador --------------- Procol Harum
Love Machine -------------- Miracles
Tequila Sunrise ------------ Eagles
September ------------------ Earth, Wind And Fire
You’ll Never Find --------- Lou Rawls

Midday Show
Take The Money ---------------- Steve Millar Band
Sad Eyes -------------------------- Robert John
Don’t Bring Me Down ---------- ELO
Follow You Follow Me --------- Genesis
Sky High -------------------------- Jigsaw
Raise A Little Hell --------------- Trooper
Year Of The Cat ------------------ Al Stewart
Coming Home --------------------- Ian Thomas
I Like Dreamn’ -------------------- Kenny Nolan
Old Man ---------------------------- Neil Young
Baby Hold On --------------------- Eddie Money
You Don’t Have To Star --------- McCoo / Davis

Afternoon Drive Show
Have To Be Starting --------------- Michael Jackson
Lady ---------------------------------- Styx
How Long --------------------------- Ace
Saskatoon --------------------------- The Guess Who
When You’re In Love ------------- Dr. Hook
So Into You ------------------------- Atlanta Rhythm
Undercover Angel ----------------- Alan O’Day
Nights On Broadway -------------- Bee Gees
You’re Still The One ---------------- Copperpenny
Don’t Call Us ------------------------- Sugarloaf
My Own Way ---------------------- Burton Cumming
Lido Shuffle ------------------------ Boz Scaggs
Running On Empty ---------------- Jackson Browne

Evening Show
Beautiful --------------------- Gordon Lightfoot
Be My Baby ----------------- Andy Kim
Best Of My Love ------------- Emotions
Carry Me --------------------- Stampeders
I Just Want ------------------- Andy Gibb
How Sweet It Is ------------- James Taylor
Hot Child In The City ------ Nick Gilder
Shannon ---------------------- Henry Gross
You Won’t Dance ------------ April Wine
Painted Ladies --------------- Ian Thomas
Carefree Highway ----------- Gordon Lightfoot
Drift Away ------------------- Dobie Gray
Jet ------------------------------ Paul McCartney

Radiowiz · April 17, 2016 12:10 am

Lorne · April 17, 2016 7:44 am

The sample playlists would also indicate an unusually narrow focus on one decade, with virtually every song being from the 70s. The only exception I noticed was Michael Jackson's Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (they were also pretty sloppy with that title and some others). I presume that this is to allow them to be 30% Cancon instead of 35%, although if I recall the rule properly a station can still qualify for that as long as 90% of its playlist is before a date in the early 80s. I'd look it up but I'm sure someone here can provide the details.

Anyway, I'm a bit surprised that they wouldn't include a bit more in the way of music from either side of the 70s. I grew up in that era and liked a lot of the music, but I've heard most of those songs far too many times for me to have much interest in a station like that.

Jody Thornton · April 17, 2016 7:45 am

I have to admit, I love 70s and early 80s classic hits on a highly processed AM signal. Let's take this playlist and break it down, because the newer the songs get, some songs no longer sound listenable on AM, whereas some do.

The morning show and evening show list contains songs that if you ask me, sound good on AM (when I say "sound good" I don't mean as in hi-fi. I mean it sounds "impressive" or "something that makes me want to sing along".) A lot of these songs I heard first on AM, so it takes me RIGHT BACK to the 70s.

In the midday show, the Genesis track sounds a tad lackluster on AM, but I remember hearing it on CFTR back on the day so who am I to criticize? They should try to tack down the rare single version, because the slightly dryer mix translates to AM better. The rest of the playlist goes over nicely on AM. And on the drive home show, I don't think many "Thriller" tracks go over well on AM. I'd stick with "Off the Wall" material for Jacko.

One good thing I like (my friend Ken will hate me for saying this, but, meh ...lol) I like the relative absence of 60s music form the list. Tell me all you want about what I missed in the 60s like JFK, Woodstock, yada yada, yada. I'm soooooo sick of 60s music, so I'm glad to see it missing here for the most part (OK I like Cream and Traffic, but other than "White Room" from the former, I don't see the rest of the library fitting in here. This is more classic Top 40 from the 70s that I see in this list).

One thing I would like more is some early to mid 80s included. Now with the 80s, one needs to be more selective with AM. Many songs go over well, but others don't. "Rebel Yell" sounds hideous on AM, and I think that Billy Idol's library would be too hard for this format anyway. I would skew more 80s AC on this station. Adds would be Steve Winwood, George Benson, Benny Mardonace, Blondie, some Michael Jackson, James Ingram, Olivia Newton John, Abba, maybe some Men at Work (I would nix Be Good Johnny for example, great song but not a good AM track I'd say), Charlene, J Geils Band, Joan Jett, Styx, Paul McCartney ("Coming Up" (Live) and "Take It Away" would be good adds), Stevie Wonder ("That Girl" and "Ain't Gonna Stand For It" as examples) and Ambrosia. I think you get the idea.

Last edited by Jody Thornton (April 17, 2016 8:21 am)

Lorne · April 17, 2016 8:04 am

Interesting and very thorough analysis, Jody. I'd add that more 80s would also give them more Cancon to choose from. I remember CKOC adding 80s music for that reason, and I thought it improved their playlist (although I'd also add some non-Cancon songs from the era ... it really stood out when every 80s song that they played was Cancon). This is part of the reason that I'd have some late-60s music as well. Being virtually all-70s seems very arbitrary to me.

Jody Thornton · April 17, 2016 8:19 am

One thing I never liked CKOC doing in the oldies era was only resorting to 80s as a means of including Cancon. Hey, if Chilliwack lived nicely alongside Gary Numan 35 years ago, then that's what I want to hear now. See as far as Cancon goes, there are songs I'd like to hear from the 70s and 80s. More Prism (stuff like Flying, Young and Restless), Ian Thomas (spare me "Right Before ..." and switch in "Pilot" instead), Trooper's "3 Dressed..." would be cool add. I still like Harlequin. Add Loverboy's "Turn Me Loose" and "When It's Over" and a little less "Working For the Weekend")

One other thing, and I know I'll get some flack for this. But this format sounds better with radio versions. Single versions of some the Cancon I meantioned, plus other international tracks give a more truer reflection of the experience we had when these songs first charted. Listening to the final Big 500 last September gave a somewhat inaccurate reflection of what CKOC actually was in it's heydey. The never played "The Beat Goes On/Switching To Glide", for example. They played ONLY "Switching to Glide" off the Kings' promo single. Or Culture Club's "...Hurt Me" with the "Give Me Time" intro intact? That's not how they aired it originally. They used the 3 second "dub" intro from the flipside of the promo Things like this won't matter to many, but to music radio fans, authenticity to the time period matters ... a lot.

Last edited by Jody Thornton (April 17, 2016 8:20 am)

Paul Jeffries · April 17, 2016 8:50 am

The thing I found most puzzling about CKOC is why they held onto the Oldies 1150 format for so long. Even on their website they used to brag that their highest audience numbers happened in 1980. One would think it would've made more sense to be playing "Video Killed the Radio Star" right from the start when they switched from their Top 40 format, instead of the tired old cornball oldies that made up the bulk of their playlist.

Last edited by Paul Jeffries (April 17, 2016 8:50 am)

Dale Patterson · April 17, 2016 9:26 am

RadioActive wrote:
The CRTC will answer that question this coming week, when they hear the licence application for a new station at 1220, the former home of CHSC. Power would be 10K day and night, with a purported format of classic hits. The station would be known as "1220 Grapevine Radio," likely to associate it with the wine growing industry that dominates the area.

Seems odd to try that kind of music on AM in that market but stranger things have happened. It plans to use the existing CHSC towers and pattern, thus obviating the need for expensive studies and technical approval, since they worked for the frequency's former occupant.

1220 AM Application

Here are some sample music playlists taken from its application. Looks (sounds?) like a lot of the same old same old same oldies...

Morning Show
Mamma Mia ---------------- ABBA
Slip Slidin Away ----------- Paul Simon
Doctor My Eyes ------------ Jackson Browne
Easy -------------------------- Commodores
How Much I Feel ---------- Ambrosia
Cruel To Be Kind ---------- Nick Lowe
Get Closer ------------------ Seals And Croft
Conquistador --------------- Procol Harum
Love Machine -------------- Miracles
Tequila Sunrise ------------ Eagles
September ------------------ Earth, Wind And Fire
You’ll Never Find --------- Lou Rawls

Midday Show
Take The Money ---------------- Steve Millar Band
Sad Eyes -------------------------- Robert John
Don’t Bring Me Down ---------- ELO
Follow You Follow Me --------- Genesis
Sky High -------------------------- Jigsaw
Raise A Little Hell --------------- Trooper
Year Of The Cat ------------------ Al Stewart
Coming Home --------------------- Ian Thomas
I Like Dreamn’ -------------------- Kenny Nolan
Old Man ---------------------------- Neil Young
Baby Hold On --------------------- Eddie Money
You Don’t Have To Star --------- McCoo / Davis

Afternoon Drive Show
Have To Be Starting --------------- Michael Jackson
Lady ---------------------------------- Styx
How Long --------------------------- Ace
Saskatoon --------------------------- The Guess Who
When You’re In Love ------------- Dr. Hook
So Into You ------------------------- Atlanta Rhythm
Undercover Angel ----------------- Alan O’Day
Nights On Broadway -------------- Bee Gees
You’re Still The One ---------------- Copperpenny
Don’t Call Us ------------------------- Sugarloaf
My Own Way ---------------------- Burton Cumming
Lido Shuffle ------------------------ Boz Scaggs
Running On Empty ---------------- Jackson Browne

Evening Show
Beautiful --------------------- Gordon Lightfoot
Be My Baby ----------------- Andy Kim
Best Of My Love ------------- Emotions
Carry Me --------------------- Stampeders
I Just Want ------------------- Andy Gibb
How Sweet It Is ------------- James Taylor
Hot Child In The City ------ Nick Gilder
Shannon ---------------------- Henry Gross
You Won’t Dance ------------ April Wine
Painted Ladies --------------- Ian Thomas
Carefree Highway ----------- Gordon Lightfoot
Drift Away ------------------- Dobie Gray
Jet ------------------------------ Paul McCartney

Same old, same old playlist, you got that right. Just reading it puts me to sleep.

Kilgore · April 17, 2016 11:03 am

New radio station announcements are like cleavage; on examination it becomes apparent nothing is there

unclefester · April 17, 2016 5:43 pm

1220 CHSC.....my old stompin' grounds...!

I enjoyed St. Kitts very much...

Worked there as an 18 and 19 year old in 74-75...

First job away from home...

Bob Redmond was the owner...uncle to Mickey and Dick....oldtimers like 'Codger know those names...

Last edited by unclefester (April 17, 2016 7:03 pm)

Lorne · April 17, 2016 6:09 pm

Just realized something re the Cancon issue. By my calculation, the Cancon songs out of total songs are as follows: morning 0/12, midday 3/12, afternoon 3/13, evening 7/13. I wonder how late they're planning to play those last 7 songs. Not too bright to be telegraphing such things, however, particularly given whatever the requirements are to play Cancon at a certain level throughout the day. On the other hand, at least they're not trying to get the CRTC's approval by promising to play more Cancon than required ... never liked that strategy no matter what the station.

darcyh · April 17, 2016 8:26 pm

I hope the new applicant is approved.

CHSC has been off the air since, I believe September 2010? Could the transmitter site have just been 'moth balled' and still be ready for use? I wonder how much work and what it would cost to bring the old transmitter site back into operation?

I'd appreciate any comments on the technical aspect of resurrecting an old broadcasting transmitter site.

RadioActive · April 17, 2016 11:02 pm

I'm not sure about what goes into getting everything back up and running, but in the application, it states the owner has an agrrement to purchase the old transmitter site and thus will have access to the towers. It doesn't say whether they also have the physical location of where the studios used to be, but all the equipment was sold off at auction after the old CHSC was pulled off the air, so they'd likely need to secure new digs.

But because they plan to use CHSC's former pattern and sticks, I suspect they could be on the air faster than most who get the green light from the CRTC, because there's a lot of technical specs they won't have to fight through. Still, they have to actually get the approval, so everything else is pure speculation until then.

And you're mostly right - it was actually October 2010 when the old owners had their licence pulled for not serving the St. Catharines area. I trust the new guys - if they get it - won't make that mistake again.

End of an era as CHSC AM-1220 signs off

From the Hahn Broadcast Engineering report attached to the application:

"The former CHSC transmitter site is proposed. It has nine towers on a 50 acre property and was used until 2010. The site is still intact and the applicant has negotiated an agreement to purchase it. It can easily be restored to operation and its use represents a cost effective way of achieving wide area coverage.

The use of this existing array will minimize environmental and community impact. Municipal and public consultation are not required because there will be no change in the height of the towers. Similarly, Transport Canada and Nav Canada approval is not needed. As there will be no change to the existing towers this proposal will not increase the risk of television ghosting interference."

Last edited by RadioActive (April 17, 2016 11:16 pm)

Peter the K · April 17, 2016 11:24 pm

If they want the old CHSC location at 36 Queenston St. where the studios used to be, it's going to take a lot of work to get things back into shape.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2015/01/14/chscs-fortunes-face-final-crumble

Actually (google is my friend), it's apparently being turned into a block of student flats.

http://niacon.ca/projects/default/view/4/

Radiowiz · April 17, 2016 11:30 pm

darcyh wrote:
I hope the new applicant is approved.

Do you?
Legal or not, when 1220 CHSC was airing "Radio Uno" Week-ends it made more money than the 5 day work week.

unclefester · April 18, 2016 9:27 am

Peter the K wrote:
If they want the old CHSC location at 36 Queenston St. where the studios used to be, it's going to take a lot of work to get things back into shape.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2015/01/14/chscs-fortunes-face-final-crumble

Actually (google is my friend), it's apparently being turned into a block of student flats.

http://niacon.ca/projects/default/view/4/

Jesus H....I knew the station had fallen on tough times but I had no idea the building had been demolished...

Wow....

Radiowiz · April 18, 2016 11:39 pm

^ Where did voice print move to? Didn't they share the same building with CHSC at one point?

April 19, 2016 7:24 am

unclefester wrote:
Jesus H . . . I knew the station had fallen on tough times but . . .

Given the above playlist, AM 1220's tough times are about to take a turn for the worse (if that's possible)

Peter the K · April 19, 2016 2:24 pm

Radiowiz wrote:
^ Where did voice print move to? Didn't they share the same building with CHSC at one point?

Voiceprint doesn't really exist anymore. It's now AMI (Accessible Media Inc.) and most of their product comes out of the Don Mills Road Offices and studios. They still have a few offices across the country, but since they did away with their volunteer-driven voiceprint service, (there are a few articles still being read by paid freelancers) they also closed down the satellite studios.

StevieB · April 19, 2016 8:27 pm

I'm moving Back to St. Catharines in 11 days. I'm lookin' forward to more choices.