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November 15, 2019 4:57 pm  #2


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Will there be the same ridiculous outrage over these cuts? Or does the usual rhetoric of portraying private media as pure evil for getting the most profit possible play here? 

 

November 15, 2019 5:03 pm  #3


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Yes, I am outraged.  Unless the CBC can give a god damn good reason for these layoffs.

     Thread Starter
 

November 15, 2019 5:18 pm  #4


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Forward Power wrote:

Yes, I am outraged.  Unless the CBC can give a god damn good reason for these layoffs.

Oh, so if Bell personally gave you a god damn good reason for their layoffs, you'd be okay? What's the difference? The CBC has always been heavy on redundant personnel. Since they are taxpayer funded, we all save a bit. How about they start with eliminating a 4-host The National?

 

November 15, 2019 5:23 pm  #5


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Bell has no reason to fire or lay off ANYBODY.  Plain and simple.  Their profits are already sky-high as it is, but NOOOOO, their shareholders want MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE.  THEY ARE NEVER SATISFIED WITH WHAT THEY ALREADY HAVE.  JESUS CHRIST, Bell and the CBC need to stop this nonsense NOW AND PERMANENTLY.

     Thread Starter
 

November 15, 2019 5:23 pm  #6


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

kman wrote:

The outrage is not ridiculous, actually I wonder why there isn't more of an outcry from broadcasters and former listeners alike about the industry's loss of humanity. You eliminate the human connection between radio and listener, why would the listener come back? Look at the decimation and erosion to various Corus outlets. Commercial radio used to mean something, not anymore.

What outcry from broadcasters and FORMER listeners? Former listeners couldn't care less and other broadcasters are celebrating the cuts. And the comparison of CBC to Corus? Apples and oranges. If commercial radio didn't mean anything anymore, then why this board? Seems plenty of people facing the current realities still listen and post here.
 

 

November 15, 2019 5:28 pm  #7


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Forward Power wrote:

Bell has no reason to fire or lay off ANYBODY.  Plain and simple.  Their profits are already sky-high as it is, but NOOOOO, their shareholders want MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE.  THEY ARE NEVER SATISFIED WITH WHAT THEY ALREADY HAVE.  JESUS CHRIST, Bell and the CBC need to stop this nonsense NOW AND PERMANENTLY.

Wow. Seems communism is rearing its ugly head here. Of course, shareholders want more! Wouldn't you if you were one? I ask, yet again, what makes media companies unique to the point that their profits and shareholders should be satisfied with the status quo? Yet, other companies are free to make bank? I really would love to read a rhetoric-free explanation of this.
 

 

November 16, 2019 5:44 am  #8


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

TheConsultant wrote:

Wow. Seems communism is rearing its ugly head here. Of course, shareholders want more! Wouldn't you if you were one? I ask, yet again, what makes media companies unique to the point that their profits and shareholders should be satisfied with the status quo? Yet, other companies are free to make bank? I really would love to read a rhetoric-free explanation of this.
 

Radio is not a shareholder business though.
It's an advertising business. 
 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

November 16, 2019 10:34 am  #9


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Radiowiz wrote:

Radio is not a shareholder business though.
It's an advertising business. 
 

Doesn't matter.

When radio stations were owned by private entities or individuals, those owners were often enthusiasts or just folks who wanted to hear their favourite music over the radio.  It was their plaything.  As long as it could sustain itself and turn a modest profit, everyone was happy.

Toss away the sole/human ownership and you have a station owned by a faceless corporation whose only goal is seeing quarterly or yearly increases in the profit line.  Now just staying afloat doesn't cut it anymore.

Going public, or being absorbed by a public company, is a sure-fire way of losing your identity and, ultimately, the business. Although they're not in the broadcast industry, RIM is a prime example.  They were actually making money when their troubles started -- just not enough.  
 

 

November 16, 2019 11:33 am  #10


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Forward Power wrote:

  Bell has no reason to fire or lay off ANYBODY.  Plain and simple.  Their profits are already sky-high as it is  

Is the broadcast division making too much money or Bell generally?   Please be specific.


K.
 

 

November 16, 2019 12:29 pm  #11


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

I sincerely ask yet again!! What is it about the broadcast industry that people here believe shareholders don't deserve maximized profits? Seriously. What other industry would you consider would fall into this absurd notion? All I see in rebuttal is an endless tirade of hyperbole and rhetoric against the industry. That is NOT an answer.

I don't believe for a damn second that those people would go to their Financial Adviser and say, "I would like a retirement investment vehicle to fund me in my twilight years, but DON'T give me one with increasing profits. No, give me one that is barely the status quo, perhaps one that even loses profits, please."

Come on, why the resistance to answer this question without the usual vitriol?

 

November 16, 2019 1:38 pm  #12


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

TheConsultant wrote:

I sincerely ask yet again!! What is it about the broadcast industry that people here believe shareholders don't deserve maximum profits?

Like I already said, radio is an advertising business not a shareholder business. 
Radio needs to get back to the days of no shareholders. Just a sales team doing their thing and more people hired to keep radio interesting. NOT less people and a machine running song song ad, song song liner. We have spotify for that.


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

November 16, 2019 2:32 pm  #13


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Radiowiz wrote:

TheConsultant wrote:

I sincerely ask yet again!! What is it about the broadcast industry that people here believe shareholders don't deserve maximum profits?

Like I already said, radio is an advertising business not a shareholder business. 
Radio needs to get back to the days of no shareholders. Just a sales team doing their thing and more people hired to keep radio interesting. NOT less people and a machine running song song ad, song song liner. We have spotify for that.

I disagree: business IS business. Period. Your view of what radio was is from the past and will stay there. No company will buy an asset and run it the way it was. They are there to maximize their profits. Again, if you go to your Financial Adviser and ask for some kind of investment, they aren't going to sell you something that is being run like it has in the past - all warm and cuddly. No, they'll give you something that is forward thinking and treats the business like a business.
 

 

November 16, 2019 3:22 pm  #14


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

TheConsultant wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

TheConsultant wrote:

I sincerely ask yet again!! What is it about the broadcast industry that people here believe shareholders don't deserve maximum profits?

Like I already said, radio is an advertising business not a shareholder business. 
Radio needs to get back to the days of no shareholders. Just a sales team doing their thing and more people hired to keep radio interesting. NOT less people and a machine running song song ad, song song liner. We have spotify for that.

I disagree: business IS business. Period. Your view of what radio was is from the past and will stay there. No company will buy an asset and run it the way it was. They are there to maximize their profits. Again, if you go to your Financial Adviser and ask for some kind of investment, they aren't going to sell you something that is being run like it has in the past - all warm and cuddly. No, they'll give you something that is forward thinking and treats the business like a business.
 

You just made a threat to the shareholders. Way to go. 
You can't sit pretty saying that Shareholders will forever be the way to make money and all that other stuff you just said in the same breath. Forward thinking is forward thinking. If it means getting rid of the shareholders, so be it. 
 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

November 16, 2019 3:33 pm  #15


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Radiowiz wrote:

You just made a threat to the shareholders. Way to go. 
You can't sit pretty saying that Shareholders will forever be the way to make money and all that other stuff you just said in the same breath. Forward thinking is forward thinking. If it means getting rid of the shareholders, so be it. 
 

Huh? Forward thinking is NOT getting rid of the shareholders. As for the other determinations of your reply: huh? I keep asking why media supposed to operate at less profit than other industries? People are dancing around this question with rhetoric and romancitizations of the past, but not actually answering the question.
 

 

November 16, 2019 9:26 pm  #16


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

TheConsultant wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

You just made a threat to the shareholders. Way to go. 
You can't sit pretty saying that Shareholders will forever be the way to make money and all that other stuff you just said in the same breath. Forward thinking is forward thinking. If it means getting rid of the shareholders, so be it. 
 

Huh? Forward thinking is NOT getting rid of the shareholders. As for the other determinations of your reply: huh? I keep asking why media supposed to operate at less profit than other industries? People are dancing around this question with rhetoric and romancitizations of the past, but not actually answering the question.
 

I knew you wouldn't get it. Radio is an advertising business period. No shareholders needed. Just a good strong sales team that knows what it is doing. If that's yesterday's thinking then go commercial free 24/7.
Shareholders don't do sales.


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

November 17, 2019 12:03 am  #17


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Radiowiz wrote:

I knew you wouldn't get it. Radio is an advertising business period. No shareholders needed. Just a good strong sales team that knows what it is doing. If that's yesterday's thinking then go commercial free 24/7.
Shareholders don't do sales.

If you knew I wouldn't understand it, then WHY POST IT? (Seems something a troll would do). As for your diatribe about shareholders, no they don't do sales. They also don't clean the studios, schedule the shows, wash the windows, make coffee for the staff... SO?! They expect profit. Period. And, without shareholders, there are no owners of media. Should we put all the assets up for sale and stipulate that no corporation ever has an interest in it. Who would afford that cost - the station would cease broadcasting.
 

 

November 17, 2019 1:19 am  #18


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

TheConsultant wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

I knew you wouldn't get it. Radio is an advertising business period. No shareholders needed. Just a good strong sales team that knows what it is doing. If that's yesterday's thinking then go commercial free 24/7.
Shareholders don't do sales.

If you knew I wouldn't understand it, then WHY POST IT? (Seems something a troll would do). As for your diatribe about shareholders, no they don't do sales. They also don't clean the studios, schedule the shows, wash the windows, make coffee for the staff... SO?! They expect profit. Period. And, without shareholders, there are no owners of media. Should we put all the assets up for sale and stipulate that no corporation ever has an interest in it. Who would afford that cost - the station would cease broadcasting.
 

Radio is a business before it can be anything else. An advertising business. It can survive just fine without shareholders. To suggest that a radio station must have shareholders to survive is ridiculous. 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

November 17, 2019 2:38 am  #19


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

I remember, when CP was contemplating feeding AP copy directly onto the wire with the computer doing the "editing" - I asked one of the editors, "what about the quality." His answer: "the days of quality are gone."

You see, that's the problem. The more you cut, the more the bar is lowered on the quality of the product. Take radio, for instance. They used to have live announcers during the all-night period. That got eliminated - to save money - but a little bit of the magic that made radio so special was lost. Then the trend spread to other dayparts, where automation or bland syndicated programming replaced the live and local announcer. More magic ... gone forever.

Call me a sentimentalist, a dinosaur, whatever, but I miss the days when radio was interesting, unpredictable, fun. Yes, the broadcast corporations have a right to cut as much as they want, make as much profit as they want, it's their business. But when it comes at the expense of quality, when science has replaced art, something is permanently lost. The joie de vivre vanishes, never to return.

But wait! There's hope! One can go to the Internet and hear all kinds of creative radio from around the world. Any kind of format, in any style, is right there at the click of a mouse. You can hear the radio of the past, documentaries of all kinds - you can even create your own radio station if you like. The possibilities are endless - it's a world of discovery. As they say, when one door closes, another one opens.

To quote the late Bob Hesketh, "that's the way I see it."

Last edited by Dale Patterson (November 17, 2019 2:39 am)


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

November 17, 2019 3:00 am  #20


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Radiowiz wrote:

Radio is a business before it can be anything else. An advertising business. It can survive just fine without shareholders. To suggest that a radio station must have shareholders to survive is ridiculous. 

Yes, it IS a business and NOT a charity. If someone wants to sell the station to a corporation, which has shareholders, so be it. If the alternative is the station going dark, then bring it on.

One can romanticize the business of the past, and disregard the business of the present and future, and that is absurd. The average listener doesn't give a damn of who or what owns their favorite station.

I say again, what is it about the radio/media industry that some here don't want to see profit? Does profit equal poor end product? Maybe to some. Yet, look at the top rated Toronto radio stations: who owns them: corporations. And those evil corps all have those evil shareholders.

 

November 17, 2019 7:12 am  #21


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

TheConsultant wrote:

     it IS a business and NOT a charity.     I say again, what is it about the radio/media industry that some here don't want to see profit?

This thread has evidently become confused with the Bell thread, below.   CBC is a charity & Bell is a business.   No?
 

 

November 17, 2019 9:12 am  #22


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

I wasn't going to weigh in on this shall we say spirited discussion, until I read this in Saturday's Toronto Star Business section. To say the following two opening paragraphs took me by surprise hardly covers it.

Is this PR hype or do they really mean it? (The cynic in me doesn't believe it, but we'll see.)

Either way, it certainly casts the issue in this and other threads in a brand new light. 

"This August, the Business Roundtable, a group of powerful American executives, including the leaders of Apple, Ford, Walmart and Pepsi, renounced their longstanding position that corporations exist principally to serve their shareholders.

"While some dismissed it as a public relations stunt, it’s a sign of the times that businesses now recognize it is no longer sustainable to make gobs of money at the expense of people and the planet, but rather that business must be fair to the planet and people, because they are the foundation on which all economies rely." 

 

November 17, 2019 12:52 pm  #23


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

RadioActive wrote:

I wasn't going to weigh in on this shall we say spirited discussion, until I read this in Saturday's Toronto Star Business section. To say the following two opening paragraphs took me by surprise hardly covers it.

Is this PR hype or do they really mean it? (The cynic in me doesn't believe it, but we'll see.)

Either way, it certainly casts the issue in this and other threads in a brand new light. 

"This August, the Business Roundtable, a group of powerful American executives, including the leaders of Apple, Ford, Walmart and Pepsi, renounced their longstanding position that corporations exist principally to serve their shareholders.

"While some dismissed it as a public relations stunt, it’s a sign of the times that businesses now recognize it is no longer sustainable to make gobs of money at the expense of people and the planet, but rather that business must be fair to the planet and people, because they are the foundation on which all economies rely." 

Whether its a PR stunt or not, I do agree with the sentiment. 

Everyone has bore witness to "short term / short sighted" decisions at the detriment of long term health & viability".


Dale Patterson wrote:

I remember, when CP was contemplating feeding AP copy directly onto the wire with the computer doing the "editing" - I asked one of the editors, "what about the quality." His answer: "the days of quality are gone."

*sigh* Yep, so true. I was in IT for 30+ years. On numerous occasions, I was shocked at what was now deemed  acceptable today as compared to yesteryear.  To the extent we really wondered why we expended so much effort delivering a quality product before.  One brutal example was building an interface to Walmart.  We developed an extensive suite of test cases/test scenarios but as soon as the 1st transmission case went through, Walmart said "We're good, we'll address any subsequent issues that arise during live production".

Another example, take the PC Mastercard website.  I do love the PC Mastercard/PC Optimum program & continue to use it to this day.  But that website was put into production way before it was production ready.  While the strict financial functionality was fine, the # of other functions that simply didn't work or were in error was stunning.  I highlighted several issues to their support desk & they did gradually get fixed.  But the point is that it was put into production way too prematurely.  Quality Testing/Control was solely lacking. 

 

November 17, 2019 1:36 pm  #24


Re: 35 Nuked By CBC

Back to the CBC part of this story, the Cdn. Media Guild claims most of the cuts will come by attrition - people retiring or quitting who won't be replaced. Others will be redeployed to other departments.

I'm not sure if this is a case of putting lipstick on a pig, but it certainly softens the blow somewhat if it's true. 

CBC cuts to be minimized through retirements, unfilled vacancies