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July 10, 2019 3:16 pm  #1


Future of free antenna TV

For all us antenna geeks and users out there...me included...

'Next Gen TV has the capability to broadcast high-quality Ultra HD 4K video, HDR and wide color gamut, high frame rates up to 120Hz, and more. Like current over-the-air TV broadcasts -- and unlike cable, satellite or live TV streaming -- it will be free. You'll just need an antenna and a TV or separate tuner that can decode it. ATSC 3.0 proponents also claim better reception indoors and on the go, perhaps on your phone or even to your car.One potential downside for consumers? ATSC 3.0 will also let broadcasters track your viewing habits, information that can be used for targeted advertising, just like websites and companies like Facebook and Google use today.' 


https://www.cnet.com/news/over-the-air-4k-tv-is-almost-here-with-atsc-3-0-the-future-of-free-antenna-tv/ 

Last edited by Johnny B (July 10, 2019 3:17 pm)

 

July 10, 2019 3:57 pm  #2


Re: Future of free antenna TV

Very interesting and exciting!

The not so exciting part is the loss of so many channels in the past two weeks.  Is it weather conditions?  Im scanning 15 channels vs 35 channels average in Etobicoke.

City TV and 47-OMNI arent even being picked up eitheir. 

 

July 11, 2019 1:15 pm  #3


Re: Future of free antenna TV

Don't get too excited about ATSC-3.  There are no TV's out there with it installed in the USA, so broadcasters aren't about to desert 10-15% of their audience base.  However WNLO-49 may go ATSC-3 when it moves to its new Ch. 16 Assignment and relocates to Grand Island soon.   Markow202 - is your antenna aimed at any trees?  Tree leaves are a problem, particularly when wet in summer, if there is a tree in the direction of your antenna.   The hot humid weather has also caused inversions over the cold lake waters which impact the distant Buffalo transmitters, particularly WKBW and WGRZ.   It is not uncommon to see WGRZ at one moment and then lose WNED - which is under powered and impacted by weather fades.   Things could stabilize just a bit, on August 2nd, when Toronto and a number of Buffalo stations relocate to their (final) "repack" channels.   Expect a decrease in strength for WNLO/WIVB as it relocates much further south to the old Colden TX site and relocates to Ch.36.   But WUTV's signal should improve when it moves to Ch. 32.  Are you using a pre-amp with your antenna? Some pre-amps - particularly Channel Master are impacted when Western NY signals fade, and the Toronto signals (much stronger) overload the amp.

Curious.  Do you ever see WDTB-HD channel 39 (off-air channel 29)?   It is only 15 KW, and is an indicator often of better reception conditions over the path to Buffalo.

In any event, by early March of next year, which is "phase 8" of the repack, you should see an improvement for a few more stations, notably WNED - on Channel 31.   WPXJ Batavia might also be more reliable when it moves its site further west, more in line with the other Buffalo stations.

Last edited by tvguy (July 11, 2019 1:16 pm)

 

July 11, 2019 1:23 pm  #4


Re: Future of free antenna TV

This is awesome (and super geeky) info...thanks!...I have a place on the north shore of Lake Erie about 30 minutes from Niagara Falls...it's one of the best places in Canada to get free tv...all the major Canadian and US networks plus the cool niche channels, Laff, Heroes and Icons, MeTv, etc...but I've often wondered why one day I can only access 20 channels and the next day I can get over 40...always thought reception had something to do with the trees and weather.


tvguy wrote:

Don't get too excited about ATSC-3.  There are no TV's out there with it installed in the USA, so broadcasters aren't about to desert 10-15% of their audience base.  However WNLO-49 may go ATSC-3 when it moves to its new Ch. 16 Assignment and relocates to Grand Island soon.   Markow202 - is your antenna aimed at any trees?  Tree leaves are a problem, particularly when wet in summer, if there is a tree in the direction of your antenna.   The hot humid weather has also caused inversions over the cold lake waters which impact the distant Buffalo transmitters, particularly WKBW and WGRZ.   It is not uncommon to see WGRZ at one moment and then lose WNED - which is under powered and impacted by weather fades.   Things could stabilize just a bit, on August 2nd, when Toronto and a number of Buffalo stations relocate to their (final) "repack" channels.   Expect a decrease in strength for WNLO/WIVB as it relocates much further south to the old Colden TX site and relocates to Ch.36.   But WUTV's signal should improve when it moves to Ch. 32.  Are you using a pre-amp with your antenna? Some pre-amps - particularly Channel Master are impacted when Western NY signals fade, and the Toronto signals (much stronger) overload the amp.

Curious.  Do you ever see WDTB-HD channel 39 (off-air channel 29)?   It is only 15 KW, and is an indicator often of better reception conditions over the path to Buffalo.

In any event, by early March of next year, which is "phase 8" of the repack, you should see an improvement for a few more stations, notably WNED - on Channel 31.   WPXJ Batavia might also be more reliable when it moves its site further west, more in line with the other Buffalo stations.

 

     Thread Starter
 

July 16, 2019 3:49 pm  #5


Re: Future of free antenna TV

Im guessing they are climbing up and down the mast of the CN Tower due to this repack.

 

July 16, 2019 6:47 pm  #6


Re: Future of free antenna TV

The switch over for the stations on the CN Tower is March 7, 2020.   But it is possible that if there is any antenna work to be done, now is the time.  The February/March period would be very difficult to coordinate antenna work.   It is the Hamilton stations which are moving in August.  CITS - Ch. 36 will move at the same time that WNLO/WIVB switch channels.  Sorry if my earlier post confused the situation.   WNED, and WKBW are moving in the March 2020 repack

 

July 17, 2019 1:28 pm  #7


Re: Future of free antenna TV

tvguy wrote:

The switch over for the stations on the CN Tower is March 7, 2020.   But it is possible that if there is any antenna work to be done, now is the time.  The February/March period would be very difficult to coordinate antenna work.   It is the Hamilton stations which are moving in August.  CITS - Ch. 36 will move at the same time that WNLO/WIVB switch channels.  Sorry if my earlier post confused the situation.   WNED, and WKBW are moving in the March 2020 repack

I beleive they have started as I havent been able to receive channels CFMT 47, CITY 57 for over a month now while others from there are ok.  And when I have received it, the signal was pixeled with one bar or no signal at all, so eitheir those ones are now at FCP until this is done im not sure.

 

 

November 4, 2020 11:30 am  #8


Re: Future of free antenna TV

I hadn't thought much about ATSC 3.0 discussed here earlier, until I read this press release. It involves two major U.S. stations in a big market, KONG-TV & KING-TV, both in Seattle. 

Tegna (which also owns WGRZ, Channel 2 in Buffalo) has announced plans to convert both stations into the new format, although it will remain available for over-the-air viewers (who will have to rescan to get it.) It boasts this will improve the signal and the range for the stations in the market. 

The advisories for viewers will begin this month. The actual signal goes on the air in December. 

My questions: will anyone actually be able to see this supposedly "improved" digital signal? And while I agree High Definition is much better than the old analog (except maybe for long distance reception) I always wondered back when they forced everyone to go out and buy new TV sets whether they wanted to or not, who asked for this? And how much better is this, really?

Anyway, ready or not, the future is here. How long it takes to get to this market is another question. If history is any indication, you can bet if the U.S. converted completely to this system, Canada would wait at least 5 years to do it here. 

Seattle Station Converting To ATSC 3.0

 

November 4, 2020 11:18 pm  #9


Re: Future of free antenna TV

RadioActive wrote:

I hadn't thought much about ATSC 3.0 discussed here earlier, until I read this press release. It involves two major U.S. stations in a big market, KONG-TV & KING-TV, both in Seattle. 
<snip>
My questions: will anyone actually be able to see this supposedly "improved" digital signal? And while I agree High Definition is much better than the old analog (except maybe for long distance reception) I always wondered back when they forced everyone to go out and buy new TV sets whether they wanted to or not, who asked for this? And how much better is this, really?

Anyway, ready or not, the future is here. How long it takes to get to this market is another question. If history is any indication, you can bet if the U.S. converted completely to this system, Canada would wait at least 5 years to do it here.  

Another marketing ploy.

The transmission system for KONG-TV and KING-TV is provided by GatesAir, formerly known as Harris Broadcast.  As a transmitter supplier, they have a vested interest in selling ATSC 3.0 transmitters.  ATSC 3.0 is really what ATSC 1.0 (the current North American digital OTA TV system) never was, but should have been.  ATSC 3.0 solves the reception problems that are inherent in ATSC 1.0 (such as multi-path) and uses an improved video compression system (H-265).

Will people notice?  Will people care?

4K, which ATSC 3.0 can support, has largely been DOA given the picture quality is not substantially better for the average viewer to notice (and pay for).

As for people being forced to buy newer TV's 10-15 years ago, it was all about a larger screen size and better aspect ratio (they couldn't make CRT based TV sets any bigger than 32") BUT the consumer did benefit from a much improved picture and something you could mount on a wall.  There was value for the consumer, whether they were OTA, cable, satellite, IPTV or DVD.  That being said, the only people that made money on HD was the consumer electronics industry and broadcast equipment suppliers.

It has been 20 years since the start of digital OTA TV.  In that time, broadcasters made NO money on HD or OTA (ATSC 1.0).

Moving forward to today, what is the value for the average consumer in moving to OTA ATSC 3.0?  What is the value, for that matter in Bell, Rogers or Corus investing in ATSC 3.0?       ZERO

 

 

November 5, 2020 6:55 pm  #10


Re: Future of free antenna TV

Saw the KING-KONG release.  ATSC-3 is not going to be rolled out fast in most US markets.  Only a couple of companies have embraced ATSC-3.  In Buffalo WNYO Channel 49 is scheduled to go ATSC-3 but must maintain a "night light"  ATSC (current technology) for many years, so I expect to see Ch. 49's programming on a sub channel of  WUTV at some point which is co-owned by Sinclair. As far as I can see, the NBC, CBS, ABC and ION, and PBS affiliates have no plan to go ATSC at any time soon.    With COVID 19 and massive financial hardship of U.S. consumers looming, I doubt that people will be rushing out to big box stores in the next couple of years to buy new TV's if/when they hit the U.S. market.   I have no interest in watching anything on WNYO - but then that's probably my taste in TV programming.   

However, Silicon Dust offers an ATSC0-3 "4K" solution now.  HDHOMERUN, which is an elegant alternative to a set-top box, is about to hit the market with ATSC-3 devices that will sell for around $275 CDN for their entry device.   HDHOMERUN is an excellent product, it receives all Buffalo OTA stations in my home and is compatible with FireStick TV, and Apple TV set top boxes.  But you need some technical ability to configure it to record as a PVR.  It's been configured as a terrific PVR in our home and allows for viewing of 2 HD channels in 2 rooms at the same time.  But it's not a consumer "plug and play" product.

Here's the link to the SiliconDust $199 USD ATSC-3 (4K) product that is about to hit the market.
https://shop.silicondust.com/shop/product/hdhomerun-connect-4k-p-n-hdhr5-4k/?utm_source=Shop+Live&utm_campaign=104d683616-wd_update_big_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0e447afd5c-104d683616-425691381&goal=0_0e447afd5c-104d683616-425691381&mc_cid=104d683616&mc_eid=f40ec71c71
 

Last edited by tvguy (November 5, 2020 6:57 pm)

 

January 19, 2021 11:07 pm  #11


Re: Future of free antenna TV

This is also very interesting...
(Global TV @ 7:48 into the video)



 

Last edited by Radiowiz (January 19, 2021 11:22 pm)


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

January 20, 2021 2:22 am  #12


Re: Future of free antenna TV

In Phase wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

I hadn't thought much about ATSC 3.0 discussed here earlier, until I read this press release. It involves two major U.S. stations in a big market, KONG-TV & KING-TV, both in Seattle. 
<snip>
My questions: will anyone actually be able to see this supposedly "improved" digital signal? And while I agree High Definition is much better than the old analog (except maybe for long distance reception) I always wondered back when they forced everyone to go out and buy new TV sets whether they wanted to or not, who asked for this? And how much better is this, really?

Anyway, ready or not, the future is here. How long it takes to get to this market is another question. If history is any indication, you can bet if the U.S. converted completely to this system, Canada would wait at least 5 years to do it here.  

Another marketing ploy.

The transmission system for KONG-TV and KING-TV is provided by GatesAir, formerly known as Harris Broadcast.  As a transmitter supplier, they have a vested interest in selling ATSC 3.0 transmitters.  ATSC 3.0 is really what ATSC 1.0 (the current North American digital OTA TV system) never was, but should have been.  ATSC 3.0 solves the reception problems that are inherent in ATSC 1.0 (such as multi-path) and uses an improved video compression system (H-265).

Will people notice?  Will people care?

4K, which ATSC 3.0 can support, has largely been DOA given the picture quality is not substantially better for the average viewer to notice (and pay for).

As for people being forced to buy newer TV's 10-15 years ago, it was all about a larger screen size and better aspect ratio (they couldn't make CRT based TV sets any bigger than 32") BUT the consumer did benefit from a much improved picture and something you could mount on a wall.  There was value for the consumer, whether they were OTA, cable, satellite, IPTV or DVD.  That being said, the only people that made money on HD was the consumer electronics industry and broadcast equipment suppliers.

It has been 20 years since the start of digital OTA TV.  In that time, broadcasters made NO money on HD or OTA (ATSC 1.0).

Moving forward to today, what is the value for the average consumer in moving to OTA ATSC 3.0?  What is the value, for that matter in Bell, Rogers or Corus investing in ATSC 3.0?       ZERO

 

I can't say why but I have had some experience playing with H-265 compression and it's amazing.  The file sizes I have been working with are slightly less than half the size of H-264 compression with better picture quality.  It also allows for 8192x4320 resolution.

 

January 20, 2021 2:33 pm  #13


Re: Future of free antenna TV

tvguy wrote:

Expect a decrease in strength for WNLO/WIVB as it relocates much further south to the old Colden TX site and relocates to Ch.36.   But WUTV's signal should improve when it moves to Ch. 32

I thought WIVB/WNLO already moved south a year ago? It used to have the strongest strength for my house but then went down to about 60-70 % with the move.

 

January 20, 2021 3:45 pm  #14


Re: Future of free antenna TV

if you read the date of my (earlier) post, 2019 - that was nearly 2 years ago.  WNLO-WIVB moved that year to the (historical) Colden, NY site, which is nearly 90 miles from downtown Toronto.