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January 28, 2016 8:21 am  #1


College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Younglings are starting to realize there are other careers out there they might be better off investing their futures in - http://www.tbnewswatch.com/News/380355/College_puts_broadcasting_program_on_hiatus

Last edited by Johnny B (January 28, 2016 8:25 am)

 

January 28, 2016 9:26 am  #2


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

After I was told about one of the local colleges informing instructors that the kids in their program were 'income units' I realized just how much trouble the 'broadcasting college' model is in.  

There have always been the ones that offered to make you an audio engineer to the rock stars, or promising you the 8am slot on 'RB even though you can't read a newspaper, those are dream factories that operate on the PT Barnum philosophy, take your money and leave you hanging.  But it appears to have seeped into the mainstream as well.  

If I had a choice when hiring, I always used to go with Humber when I could.  Not because their students were necessarily the 'best', but just by surviving the course, they proved they had the potential to be, They never appeared to have sunshine blown up their ass that the degree would lead directly to a major market morning show gig, or even a job for that matter.  I always liked the fact that the kids arrived excited and glad for the chance of a position, and appreciative that they were probably among the single digits percentage of the class who might, yet they had kept hammering on anyway.  

Unlike another place who's graduates entered the building, walked into the PD's office and asked why there was someone sitting in their chair.  

Maybe it's changed, it's been a while .

 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

January 28, 2016 10:17 am  #3


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

i've always warned potential broadcast students to stay away from those private type broadcasting schools. they'll say whatever you want to hear to get to your cash.
it appears "sales" is the only department that can grow (in today's broadcasting world). sure sales can be centralized (and has been nationally for decades) however you need a local sales force for local clients. then again, if listenership erodes then so do sales opportunities.

 

Last edited by the original hank (January 28, 2016 10:23 am)

 

January 28, 2016 11:43 am  #4


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

ig wrote:

After I was told about one of the local colleges informing instructors that the kids in their program were 'income units' I realized just how much trouble the 'broadcasting college' model is in.  

There have always been the ones that offered to make you an audio engineer to the rock stars, or promising you the 8am slot on 'RB even though you can't read a newspaper, those are dream factories that operate on the PT Barnum philosophy, take your money and leave you hanging.  But it appears to have seeped into the mainstream as well.  

If I had a choice when hiring, I always used to go with Humber when I could.  Not because their students were necessarily the 'best', but just by surviving the course, they proved they had the potential to be, They never appeared to have sunshine blown up their ass that the degree would lead directly to a major market morning show gig, or even a job for that matter.  I always liked the fact that the kids arrived excited and glad for the chance of a position, and appreciative that they were probably among the single digits percentage of the class who might, yet they had kept hammering on anyway.  

Unlike another place who's graduates entered the building, walked into the PD's office and asked why there was someone sitting in their chair.  

Maybe it's changed, it's been a while .

 

Iain: Working for you was like a dream
A wonderful dream where everything worked and everybody loved everybody. 
We knew it had to be KILLED!
And it was.

I long for WIC to come back...Please come back...
Then I can wake up and the last 10 years will have been a really bad nightmare.


Sometimes you've got to fight to get passionate about this business.
Don't wait for the next guy to do it, because they won't.
 

 

January 28, 2016 12:10 pm  #5


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

ig wrote:

If I had a choice when hiring, I always used to go with Humber when I could. 

Funny you should mention Humber.

I remember applying for Humber's Radio program back in 1980.  At the cattle-call I attended, Stan Larke (the head of the program at the time) essentially tried to talk the prospective students out of of it.

He started the day by telling everyone the "reality" of the business and that graduates weren't likely to go out of school and right into the morning show host position in a major market.  He spoke about what life would be like for the first few years after graduating in a small market doing overnights. (back when you actually could work overnights) He pretty much laid it out rather accurately but, unfortunately, he was for the most part talking to high-school kids (and I include myself in that cohort) who knew better because  they were the greatest thing since the cart machine and that Wally Crouter was just keeping the chair warm until they came along.

Wound up at Conestoga (Despite being accepted at Humber, but I lived in Kitchener) and had the honour of being taught by, among others, Phil Stone (who started the Humber programme).  The problem was, I was too damned naive to fully understand the treasuretrove of knowledge these people had.
 

 

January 28, 2016 3:27 pm  #6


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

National Institute of Broadcasting and Career Academy still exist ??

I know that Paul Mott  is a grad of Career Academy...many many moons ago...

Anyone else come to mind ??


"I'll kick your ass down Yonge Street"... CFTR's Robert Holiday circa 1979...
 

January 28, 2016 3:54 pm  #7


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

A little-known actor named Jim Carey was at the National Institute of Broadcasting.

 

January 28, 2016 9:20 pm  #8


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I'm not well known at all but I hate to admit I went to NIB 1988 and 1989 ...lol

 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

January 28, 2016 10:47 pm  #9


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Not  true !!

I think you're very well known Judy....




 


"I'll kick your ass down Yonge Street"... CFTR's Robert Holiday circa 1979...
 

January 28, 2016 11:46 pm  #10


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Judy?  Well see, I'm definitely not that well known 
 

Last edited by Jody Thornton (January 28, 2016 11:47 pm)


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

January 29, 2016 12:41 am  #11


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Stop this Jody, you're on the radio. 
You're well known.  Get over it.

 

January 29, 2016 1:16 am  #12


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I left the college teaching role when it became obvious that the aim was simply to put "bums in seats" to get the "per student" grants from the government.
It's criminal that such institutions no longer permit you to fail anyone.
I don't know how these "sausage factories" can turn out 120 "graduates" per year in radio, television and journalism when there are no jobs at the usurious rates they charge for "tuition" spread over two or three years.
I know dozens of ethical former instructors who no longer care to participate in this charade, even though the money and the teaching hours are good.
The other thing driving good people out of the teaching "industry" are the massive amounts of paperwork and accountability required by the administration that takes far more hours than actual instruction time and one on one sessions with the sheep, er, students.
It was much different in the 70s and 80s when the industry still was viable.
Teaching in those decades and then again in this century had no comparison.
Back then, the students actually worked at trying to become successful participants in the communications business.
Nowadays, they stare at their phones and tablets during classes and it's certainly not about what you're trying to tell them.
The only thing that hasn't changed?
The two or three you get in a class of forty who have real talent, personality, skills and desire usually will succeed in the business they choose.
The others?
"Would you like fries with that?"

 

January 29, 2016 10:12 am  #13


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Jody Thornton wrote:

Judy?  Well see, I'm definitely not that well known 
 

Just having some fun with you my friend...thanks for seeing that ! 
 


"I'll kick your ass down Yonge Street"... CFTR's Robert Holiday circa 1979...
 

January 29, 2016 10:13 am  #14


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Mike Cleaver wrote:

I left the college teaching role when it became obvious that the aim was simply to put "bums in seats" to get the "per student" grants from the government.
It's criminal that such institutions no longer permit you to fail anyone.
I don't know how these "sausage factories" can turn out 120 "graduates" per year in radio, television and journalism when there are no jobs at the usurious rates they charge for "tuition" spread over two or three years.
I know dozens of ethical former instructors who no longer care to participate in this charade, even though the money and the teaching hours are good.
The other thing driving good people out of the teaching "industry" are the massive amounts of paperwork and accountability required by the administration that takes far more hours than actual instruction time and one on one sessions with the sheep, er, students.
It was much different in the 70s and 80s when the industry still was viable.
Teaching in those decades and then again in this century had no comparison.
Back then, the students actually worked at trying to become successful participants in the communications business.
Nowadays, they stare at their phones and tablets during classes and it's certainly not about what you're trying to tell them.
The only thing that hasn't changed?
The two or three you get in a class of forty who have real talent, personality, skills and desire usually will succeed in the business they choose.
The others?
"Would you like fries with that?"

Nice post Mike...good read...
 


"I'll kick your ass down Yonge Street"... CFTR's Robert Holiday circa 1979...
 

January 29, 2016 5:52 pm  #15


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Peter the K wrote:

ig wrote:

If I had a choice when hiring, I always used to go with Humber when I could. 

Funny you should mention Humber.

I remember applying for Humber's Radio program back in 1980.  At the cattle-call I attended, Stan Larke (the head of the program at the time) essentially tried to talk the prospective students out of of it.

He started the day by telling everyone the "reality" of the business and that graduates weren't likely to go out of school and right into the morning show host position in a major market.  He spoke about what life would be like for the first few years after graduating in a small market doing overnights. (back when you actually could work overnights) He pretty much laid it out rather accurately but, unfortunately, he was for the most part talking to high-school kids (and I include myself in that cohort) who knew better because  they were the greatest thing since the cart machine and that Wally Crouter was just keeping the chair warm until they came along.

Wound up at Conestoga (Despite being accepted at Humber, but I lived in Kitchener) and had the honour of being taught by, among others, Phil Stone (who started the Humber programme).  The problem was, I was too damned naive to fully understand the treasuretrove of knowledge these people had.
 

 I had the exact same experience at about the same time.  I remember getting an acceptance letter (yes, I was actually accepted) that basically said what you just re-iterated.  When you graduate, you're going to start at the bottom, you might have to sweep floors and other such lowly chores, so don't come here if you're not prepared to work for nothing for a few years.  I was actually INSULTED by their tone, and decided to accept admission to my second choice, Centennial College.  A good program, but not a fit for me AT ALL.  Ah, the road not taken.  

 

January 29, 2016 6:22 pm  #16


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I was approached by a community college to teach journalism and communications many years ago.
They were impressed by my resume and all of my accomplishments.
The breaking point in discussions came on the subject of degrees and honors.
The most embarrassing point is that I have none. 
I worked for Peter Jennings newsroom at ABC News in New York, and got published by every newspaper and magazine excepting "New Mother & Child", but that doesn't come with anything except letters of recommendation.
Old rating surveys are good for lighting a fire...
 

 

January 29, 2016 7:52 pm  #17


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I was a Humber guy.  The Phil and David era.  It was of little benefit then according to Barry Nesbitt...Barry was the GM at CKFH at the time.  I asked him following his guest appearance at our weekly Friday seminars if I'd be better off finishing the course or heading north to work at an actual radio station.  He told me the truth.  I quit school the following Monday.

I haven't given anyone ANY assistance in terms of chasing radio as a career since the early 90s.  It was plainly evident that it would not sustain many 40-45 year careers even then.  I was not about to fill anybody's 'pipe' with pure unadulterated bullshit.  Radio was a dying industry then.  The disease is communicable.  There is no cure.  Funeral arrangements will be announced shortly.

Independant broadcasters are few and far between.  SOME of them have both heart and soul.  The rest of the industry?  Pretty much 100% crap.

On the other hand...there'll always be the need for a ditch to be dug.

Last edited by Old Codger (January 29, 2016 8:06 pm)

 

January 29, 2016 8:00 pm  #18


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

 
  
"There'll always be the need for a ditch to be dug '...

Or to quote Mike Cleaver..."would you like fries with that"...??
 


"I'll kick your ass down Yonge Street"... CFTR's Robert Holiday circa 1979...
 

January 29, 2016 11:27 pm  #19


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

It's funny you say that, I had the opportunity at an incredible gig in the excited states.  Salary was great, and it was pretty much carte blanche to play radio.  It all came down to their legal department and immigration specialists who quickly pointed out I was completely worthless on paper.   They were far from nice about it, and as welcoming and inviting as the programing people had been, the legal people were pretty much pissed off at me for breathing their air for no good reason .

It was pretty humbling at the time, but I had a hunch that would be the sticking point.  I could probably have pushed it through, but at the first sign of opposition I just said screw it and went on to another radio opportunity up here that turned out to be pretty amazing.    

As usual, it all worked out for the best in the end.   I'm incredibly glad it all worked out the way it did.



Mark Elliot wrote:

I was approached by a community college to teach journalism and communications many years ago.
They were impressed by my resume and all of my accomplishments.
The breaking point in discussions came on the subject of degrees and honors.
The most embarrassing point is that I have none. 
I worked for Peter Jennings newsroom at ABC News in New York, and got published by every newspaper and magazine excepting "New Mother & Child", but that doesn't come with anything except letters of recommendation.
Old rating surveys are good for lighting a fire...
 

 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

January 29, 2016 11:38 pm  #20


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

"As usual, it all worked out for the best in the end.   I'm incredibly glad it all worked out the way it did."


I couldn't agree with you more!

 

January 29, 2016 11:57 pm  #21


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I don't usually mention it, but I did a course at Humber College when it first opened in Rexdale.  (Was it 1970?) Anyhow, Graham Cable TV was opening their Community Channel and sponsored a group of volunteers to train at Humber. It was intense and taught us all the TV basics which was, when working with obsolete cameras and equipment, a lot more than any volunteer who followed got trained.

The lead instructor was "Jerry" (and I'll be damned if I can remember his last name...help!) who saw me as this impetuous kid who was determined he should be on the air at 16! "I could do it better!"

Jerry took the time to ground me into reality of how to get a job.  How to present ideas and how to basically "Win friends and Influence People".

I'm sure he gave the same talk to every kid who entered the program and thought nothing of it.  But, it stuck in me and I've always done my best to discourage people from a career that's broken almost every heart associated with it in some way, shape or form.

Media eats people up and spits them out faster than you can blink.  Harder still is dealing with what comes after success.

"How many mountains have I fallen off of in my career?" I ask.

Warren Cosford was quoted saying that he thought I'd commit suicide when my djing career came to an end in 1994.  That's not a whole lot of confidence...

Last edited by Mark Elliot (January 29, 2016 11:58 pm)

 

January 30, 2016 12:11 am  #22


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Good old "Cablecasting" .

Jerry Millan?   I'm trying to think of Graham people, Steve Spice, Brian Ferri, Rich Sereda(?), Dave Hopkins, Gary Roberts I believe.  Pat Cole.  Shit that's a long time ago  

me.

Ps.  I had no idea David was married for 4 years to Barbara Amiel.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228782/David-Grahams-4-storey-Knightsbridge-mansion-entirely-underground.html

Sounds like he never got any less eccentric with age.




 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

January 30, 2016 12:21 am  #23


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Ok, now explain to me how I never noticed you when I was there with that same group of people?
Hell, my sister still works for Grahams partner Jim Meekison...


And "yeah" David was always weird... (and that says a lot coming from me...)

Last edited by Mark Elliot (January 30, 2016 12:28 am)

 

January 30, 2016 12:55 am  #24


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Howie Moore was the Community Programming Manager/Director for Graham Cable TV, at least when the office and studio were on Scarlett Rd.

I worked with Dave Hopkins, and Steve Spice...  but I always thought they had come from the "mother ship" York Cablevision on Railside Road.

Steve was also a DJ, and had a DJ service with Pat Cole...  Cole and Spice Disc Jockeys...

Steve ended up working for Rogers Community programming department after the Rogers led "rationalization" of all of the Toronto area cable tv licences in August of 1980...  Rogers basically bought or traded area licences with other companies so that Rogers ended up with the majority of the lucrative Toronto area.

My understanding is that Steve Spice died of a heart attack about 18 or 19 years ago...

Dave Hopkins went into local sales for CKWS-TV in the Belleville/Quinte area. I think he has since retired.
 

 

January 30, 2016 1:07 am  #25


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I was brought in by A. (Kip) Morecroft who later ended up running Rogers Cable's Community Channel, but died very young. 
Kip was the brightest and the best I ever met!
I remember him explaining concepts like "Pay Television" which sounds bizarre today, but you have to believe it made "no sense whatsoever" to my mind in 1970.  "Why would anyone pay for television?" was my mindset at the time.
He got me to understand things like "personal programming" and "the wired city" when the concepts were futuristic drivel to most everyone.
At Rogers he inherited a 2" video machine nicknamed "the white elephant" that took up a whole room but never worked properly.

Last edited by Mark Elliot (January 30, 2016 2:03 am)

 

January 30, 2016 6:14 am  #26


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Mark Elliot wrote:

Stop this Jody, you're on the radio. 
You're well known.  Get over it.

Oh I was just kidding Mark


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

January 30, 2016 6:24 am  #27


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

unclefester wrote:

Jody Thornton wrote:

Judy?  Well see, I'm definitely not that well known 
 

Just having some fun with you my friend...thanks for seeing that ! 
 

Oh I know..I was just playing around with the "Judy" bit.  I don't have an ego ... lol
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

January 30, 2016 12:16 pm  #28


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Kip Moorcroft was a f$!'ing great guy.  Always seemed to be approachable, really listened and had awesome ideas and concepts.  

But that was back in a time where the players were all pretty colourful.  Kevin Shea, Peggy Stevenson, Don Briggs, Jean-Paul Riopel, Phil Lind, Colin Watson, Barry Moore.  If WKRP Hadn't been about radio it would have been about Rogers / York / Keeble / Metro / Graham and Scarborough  Right down to the gaffer tape office walls.  These were a different breed of people, not hiding out behind a mahogany desk, but an active and integral part of what they were building.  As I said about Kip, this seemed to be a time when upper management was so much more involved, approachable and open to ideas.  (Rogers and Metro had all the money, and therefore the best toys.)

I was never really part of the Graham world, I came in during the late 70's.  Spice had already moved to York, and my only real involvement was when we'd drop in to visit.  I wouldn't be where I am today if Steve hadn't taken me under his wing.  He saw an ADD clusterfuck with potential and taught me so much.  I did the DJ thing with Steve for many years, meeting up at The Golden Star or the Conroy with Pat Cole at 2am to talk about the night .  

Those early cable channels put out some amazing stuff, because there was no 'sponsor' angle.  If Jody T. and I wanted to do a show on the yellow board, as long as we showed up we were 95% of the way.  It wasn't about mass appeal and there were no ratings, it was programing that programmers who were deeply involved in their communities believed the community wanted to see.  York and Scarborough were putting people like Beryl Potter on air long before CBC learned about 'diversity'.   We were doing shows on everything from numismatics to optimist clubs.  It wasn't technically perfect, but it was as good as we could make it, and often better because we 'found' ways to do things for free that would have cost tens of thousands in digital equipment to accomplish.    A black card with white letraset on both sides sitting on a turntable was our version of a Quantel squeeze .  We would take apart the VTR Productions demos and try to figure out how we could do it with keys and colorizers.  (Probably where my love of Network stock music came from )  I had a friend at Global and we'd go in and record shows there when we could, and also record black into white versions of their Richmond Hill's modulated wipes to be used to impress our multicultral clients

For any techies out there, one of the 'outside the box' thinking stories I love to tell was the 'Scarborough Indianapolis Peace games".   A big deal at the time and carried on all the cable 10 channels across the city.  The problem was locking the trucks.  This was before GPS and we couldn't have afforded it if we wanted to.  Spice suggested genlocking the truck to CFTO since it was freely available and have the local playback rooms do the same.  We were now all in sync.  And it worked great.  We could go from one truck to the other, from one studio to the next.  The only problem came when CFTO switched to CTV and everything rolled .   It all locked back up again soon enough though.

Steve and Pat did a show on Graham, which Spice moved to York called York Preview.  Basically 2 hours of setting up his DJ Stuff, putting a camera on the dj and shooting a monitor with colorized video feedback for the duration of the songs.  People would phone in and make requests, and in the process Pat and Steve were booked solid for school dances and other events.  It was brilliant.  Cost nothing.   No Cancon adherence  come to think of it .   The arguments go on about who was the first VJ and I could make a good case for York.  Long before Muchmusic or MTV, CBS especially were sending us 3/4" and 1" promo videos that we'd play in place of records.  At one point we put 2 cameras in the audio booth and did a 'video for audio' music pilot, but there just wasn't enough video out there to keep a show alive.   But we were playing the 'video' version of Flash and the Pan, Lene Lovitch and anything else we could find in 1977.  MTV launched 4 years later, and Much was 3 years after that.

The other great part was discovering that Rogers porn feed to the prince hotel ran through the York Head end on Railside.  It was all the channels, but groomed to include their 'hotel' PPV.  A simple RF splitter on that line, a Jerold converter box, and a load of T60 3/4" tapes and we had a library that Larry Flint would have been proud of.  Made me popular around school with the staff, but that's a story for my death bed

The other thing that jumps to mind was standing out front at 43 Railside with a sledge hammer, pounding the jesus out of the side of the 12 foot c-band dish to move it from Anik to Satcom where once again, the ole' 3/4" machines would be put to good use with Showtime till the head end guys came in on Monday and couldn't figure out why the parliament feed wasn't coming in.










 

Last edited by ig (January 30, 2016 1:04 pm)


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

January 30, 2016 5:11 pm  #29


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

I was actually made "Program Director" (sort of) as "Nils Johanson" of Doug Leiterman's ("This Hour Has 7 Days", "Here Come the 70's" later repackaged as "Towards the Year 2000" well known for the theme song "Tillicum" by John Mills Cockell and "Syrinx") " Leiterman had a cable franchise called "Wired City Cable TV" in Scarborough when I was 19.  I lasted about a month before all hell broke loose and I got fired for screwing up a CRTC presentation!  The TV critic at the Star lambasted Leiterman for my mistake.  It was hilarious.
Doug wasn't amused. 
I had worked for Doug's wife Beryl Fox at TVO on a kids show called "Walrus" that I got no credit for.

p.s. Have I always been a problem to people in this business?

Last edited by Mark Elliot (January 30, 2016 5:24 pm)

 

January 30, 2016 6:22 pm  #30


Re: College puts broadcasting program on hiatus

Just wondering as I was reading the wisdom from Old Codger who talked about time at Humber College.  I was there during the Phil and David era around '78-79.  Like most did not graduate.  Wondering if our paths may have crossed in the studios of CHBR and CHCR-FM.Many memories, and somehow I managed to remain in the business.  Good or bad ?   Depends on the day.