Reading Don Henley's comments in the bad song thread makes me believe that the Cancon shlock we are subjected to would just be replaced by worldwide shlock.  It's hard to quantify what percentage would give adequate exposure to Canadian talent.  But if it means less of Nick Guilder's whiny warbling, I am fine with that.  Another Giant 91.7 favourite. 🤨

RadioAaron wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

Canada has a thriving music industry and many of its talents are huge stars - from Drake and the Wknd to icons like Neil Young.

Your modern examples are interesting, as Cancon had nothing to do with the success of Drake or The Weeknd...or almost any contemporary artist.
 

But that's my point. It no longer matters where they're from - they're popular enough that listeners want to hear them. The fact they're Canadian is a bonus. I'd like to see the rules removed as a test and measure if future artists still get played. 

RadioActive wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

Canada has a thriving music industry and many of its talents are huge stars - from Drake and the Wknd to icons like Neil Young.

Your modern examples are interesting, as Cancon had nothing to do with the success of Drake or The Weeknd...or almost any contemporary artist.
 

But that's my point. It no longer matters where they're from - they're popular enough that listeners want to hear them. The fact they're Canadian is a bonus. I'd like to see the rules removed as a test and measure if future artists still get played. 

Yes. I think any discussion around change has to take into account current effects of the policy. It's doing very little to influence consumer behaviour domestically, and absolutely nothing for break-out success.

The radio station Canadian artists are most excited to have their new music added on? It's Sirius/XM's Canadian channels, as the service has very high royalty rates. It doesn't matter that very few are even listening.

Manipulating consumer behaviour through content regulation absolutely doesn't work. Only direct funding can have an impact.

paterson1 wrote:

If the current policy is having little influence on consumer behaviour domestically, likely has more to do with traditional radio and OTA TV just not holding much sway with people like before.  Don't really see that the regs have much to do with that. All we need to do is look at the poor balance sheets and weak ratings of radio and especially television for any proof of this. 
 

Correct; the traditional broadcasters have much, much less influence than they did, and it's mostly not because of Cancon. (Though I'd question where you're seeing that radio has "weak" ratings.)

Radio still has a lot of influence, but in the splintered environment, it can't force through music that the public has no interest in like it used to be able to. The audience is no longer captive, and the media that can keep people's attention are those that can best reflect their taste. No longer can one single platform set the agenda and make the hits. It has to be cross-platform and cross-border.

Radio still has influence, but it can't go it alone, as the regulations assume.

Last edited by RadioAaron (July 1, 2025 6:57 pm)

paterson1 wrote:

Most of what you say I agree with.  Radio does still have influence, but less and less for music, whether it be Canadian or anything else.  Looking at artists and songs that are receiving platinum and even multi platinum recognition is interesting.  Many aren't on commercial radio or have never seen the top 40 charts on OTA radio.

So to say the regs are "forcing music on the public that it has no interest in" is kind of dated and too much a generalization.  We heard many comments like that 50 years ago when radio was king and had a huge influence on music.  That wasn't accurate then and probably still isn't.

So what's your point? Radio has limited influence over consumer taste, and is far from the only way to reach mass audiences these days. CanCon should be abolished and the Canadian consumer will indirectly determine what gets played and what doesn't.... simple as that. Over regulation is speeding up the death of an entire industry 
 

1. A one-day virtue signalling session playing CanCon on Canada Day is absolutely not the same thing as being forced to play it every other day.
2. Zoomer is a dead last station that is cross-funded by over regulation on the TV side which requires Bell/Rogers to force subscriptions of Moses' TV channels, basically writing him a cheque every month even though nobody watches OneTV or Vision TV. He uses that money to run 740 as a full-time station even though it would not be profitable in its own right. 
3. If you agree that the industry is dying and "losing touch with listeners" is partly to blame, then that's the same as what I'm saying. Listeners do not play 35% CanCon when they stream music on Apple Music or youtube..... so by forcing stations to play it, you're already spending 35% of your day out-of-touch with the interests of your audience. Let the Canadian consumer dictate what they want to hear. 

Using Canada Day as justification for why CanCon isn't an issue is hilariously cute.... I wonder what you're like in real life P1... maybe you just say these god awful thoughts just to troll me? 

The CanCon regulations are outdated. They are from another time and have accomplished their goal - creating a Canadian Music industry.  Consumers chose how much Canadian music they listen to on the streaming services.  The DSPs are agnostic as to how much Canadian product is streamed. The listener makes that choice. Deregulate radio so it can offer content the audience wants on a level playing field. Local demand and reflection will ensure Canadian music to the degree that is indicative of consumers' demand. Properly executed, Radio is a mirror of the society it serves. Given a free choice Canadians CHOOSE no more than 10% of the music selections from  Canadian Artists.

paterson1 wrote:

1.   Nobody is trolling anyone, we are having a discussion.  If you can't handle that, or a contrary point of view... bye-bye.

I enjoy contrary points of view, but in all seriousness sometimes I think you must be joking or trolling because of how far your points are from reality, that's all.... you clearly have never worked in a decision making position in Canadian radio. Please remember that it's a business, not a charity, and businesses use real data, not feelings. 

paterson1 wrote:

2.  What people listen to on Apple Music or Spotify is irrelevant actually. 

Couldn't be further from the truth. That's like saying a library should never look at what books people enjoy renting/buying on e readers; are there different behaviours in the two settings? Absolutely, but you still learn a lot from the aggregate data. If the library could only hold so many books and the government required that 35% of them had to be written by Canadians while they were in Canada and it had to be printed on Canadian paper, meanwhile e-readers let Canadian customers pick whatever they want which ends up being about 5% Canadian, that tells us that the library is wasting shelf space stocking books and incurring associated costs for books that aren't enjoyed by their customers. 

Even in your narrower example, if someone listens to a Taylor Swift song 5 times in a row, then they love that song, and your weighting of the song spins on the radio should increase ever so slightly...... in radio you deal with mass audiences, not individuals, so you use aggregated data to play to the masses the best you can.

The fact is that no Canadian willing chooses to listen to CanCon qualifying music to anywhere near the amount required of radio stations.... this is not a hard concept for most to grasp. We know this from streaming data, ratings, and audience research. It harms the stations, and the listeners. If you worked in radio, you'd know that stations regularly do extensive research to determine what songs to play, and on average the CanCon songs score near the bottom, it's completely objective and not up for debate. 

paterson1 wrote:

3.   A couple of stations playing all cancon on Canada Day is virtue signalling?  Huh?  Don't follow the logic there.  Both stations have been doing this for years, and your point would be what?

Using the example of a couple stations playing CanCon on Canada Day as an excuse for why playing CanCon works is a hugely misleading example. If Meat Loaf songs test poorly, but then the day he passes away everyone plays his music, would you think to play those songs everyday going forward? No, you wouldn't. CanCon is fine to do on Canada Day because it's one day and you market your station around that. Any station playing 100% CanCon year round would be out of business in no time. Heck, Christmas Music works really well on Christmas Day! Maybe we should go Christmas year-round on CHFI? Same logic you're applying here with Canada Day. 

paterson1 wrote:

Oh, and the other station we talked about that played all cancon yesterday is #1 in the market.  Go figure eh?  In fact BOOM went a bit longer this year with Canada Day music from 7am to 8pm, and was still playing some cancon until midnight.  Some of the song requests on air were cancon, even after the Canada Day program was over after 8pm.

If CanCon is the key to Boom's success, why do they play the bare minimum every other day? Here's a fact for you... Boom only played 32% CanCon on Monday. Oh? Why would they do that? Because their July 1 numbers allow them to get away with it the rest of the week. They go as low as their license allows them just like everyone else. 35% is the minimum, not the maximum, so why not go 50% sometimes? Nobody does because there's no business case for it other than the odd "Canada proud" angle. Again, using Canada Day (a one-day sample) out of 365 days is laughable. Not sure you understand averages, promotions and optics. They're doing this as a marketing/promotions tactic, wrapping themselves around the flag, not because the music is good, else they'd do that the other 364 days of the year. It's a promotion, not a programming strategy. Not saying it's a bad thing, I quite enjoy it, but it has nothing to do with the issue of CanCon. 

paterson1 wrote:

4.  All my points in the post above still stand.  Radio itself has done most of the damage and harm to the business. To argue otherwise would be sticking your head in the sand.   Should the regs be changed and updated?  100% yes, and I have said this for years.  Is cancon and the regs to blame for radio's situation today?  Nope, that is just an excuse to do less, and has been for decades.

I never said CanCon was solely to blame. I don't understand how you think the regulations are hurting the medium, yet write off CanCon as one of the major problems. Give me a single CRTC regulation that harms Canadian radio more than CanCon? You can't, because it results in at least 4 hours of your broadcast day being devoted to music that you have extensive research and data to show that your audience tends to leave more than they tend to stick around compared to non-CanCon selections.
 
Leave the decision making for the rest of us. 
 

Last edited by torontostan (Yesterday 12:15 pm)

The CanCon regs certainly achieved their goal. It introduced us to awealth of new talent we wern't aware of. Prior to Can Con regs. Canadian talent meant Tommy Hunter, Juliette and Robert Goulet.

Last edited by turkeytop (Yesterday 7:12 pm)