The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Could Someone Please Explain To Me Why 18-49 Demo Rules In Ratings?

paterson1 · October 26, 2021 3:53 pm

I like to look at TV and radio ratings. Don't always totally understand them, and I find it interesting to see what people are watching and listening to, especially broadcast radio and TV.

It is getting harder and harder to find the top 20 or 30 weekly broadcast shows in the US. Often you need to make due with the top 10 or what was big last night, or daily ratings. And always, it is broken down by 18-49 demographic, which seems like that is the only group that matters.

I know that advertisers covet this demographic since this group is spending lots of money to get themselves set up in life, getting married, starting a family, and are less loyal to brands and habits, so are more likely or willing to try something new or make a change. Most have been there.

But I do find it a little curious why someone who is in their early to late 50's would be considered to be so much less valuable to advertisers as compared to someone in their early to mid 40's.

The mid 50's individual is more likely to have paid off the mortgage, all of the kids are grown up with their own lives, making more money than ever in their career, their spouse also is working and between the two of them have an income well over $200,000 per year. This person buys a new car every three or four years, takes trips every year, just updated the rec room downstairs and put in a new furnace and air conditioning system, and is planning on a new roof in the spring. They have over $500,000 in cash and investments and their house which they may sell in the next few years is worth about $1.8 million.

As a couple they still watch a lot of broadcast television, along with a couple of streaming services and have their favourite shows. They enjoy watching football, hockey and basketball on broadcast television and the news. Both are OTA radio listeners and listen to local radio at home and especially the car. However they also have satellite radio in both cars and can listen to satellite at home, and do.

So why would people late 50's or even 60 not be considered to be important to rating services? I know 25-54 is also considered by some to be prime, but looking at television broadcast ratings, especially US it always seems to be 18-49. And isn't this the group that doesn't watch broadcast television and radio much anymore and more into streaming and newer media?

Last edited by paterson1 (October 26, 2021 4:01 pm)

turkeytop · October 26, 2021 4:33 pm

I agree with you 100%, Patterson. We're the age group that, after a lifetime of struggling to raise a family, finally can spend money on ourselves.

I got a phone call a while ago asking if I'd be interested in participating in a survey of my radio listening. I said I would and she told me first they would need some information about me.Just a lot of general questions. When she got to my age and I told her she said. "We aren't interested in your age group."

RadioAaron · October 26, 2021 4:58 pm

turkeytop wrote:
I agree with you 100%, Patterson. We're the age group that, after a lifetime of struggling to raise a family, finally can spend money on ourselves.

I got a phone call a while ago asking if I'd be interested in participating in a survey of my radio listening. I said I would and she told me first they would need some information about me.Just a lot of general questions. When she got to my age and I told her she said. "We aren't interested in your age group."

They measure all groups; they would have already had their sample of yours.

Radiowiz · October 26, 2021 6:46 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
They measure all groups; they would have already had their sample of yours.

Really? What? Two people? I call BS on what you just said.

RadioAaron · October 26, 2021 7:03 pm

What part is BS? Older demos are far easier to recruit. It takes many more calls to recruit younger panelists -- and since older people are more likely to answer a call from a number they don't recognize, there are many calls that go the same way the one to turkeytop went.

Tomas Barlow · October 27, 2021 2:34 am

I think this has been covered here before. Research shows that the majority of the 50 plus crowd has their buying habits locked in. They're less likely to switch brands or try a new gimmicky product, and they're also less likely to give in to peer pressure when making a purchase. The spend needed to convert someone over 50 into a new customer is much larger then the spend needed to convert a 30 year-old.

mace · October 27, 2021 8:06 am

I may have mentioned this elsewhere but Showbuzz Daily publishes ratings for every U.S. primetime series by timeslot. You get to see how each show does against its direct competition.The demographic numbers are broken down into three categories, W18-49, M18-49 and 50+. The sales demo [which I don't understand] is divided up into Adults 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54. Persons 2+ numbers are also shown. So far this year, Dick Wolf must be pleased. His CBS FBI's, NBC Chicago's and SVU's are doing fine. The Voice, Masked Singer, Survivor and 60 Minutes all continue to bring in good numbers. However, The NFL on Thursday and Sunday nights continues to steamroller over everything.

turkeytop · October 27, 2021 10:25 am

Tomas Barlow wrote:
I think this has been covered here before. Research shows that the majority of the 50 plus crowd has their buying habits locked in. They're less likely to switch brands or try a new gimmicky product, and they're also less likely to give in to peer pressure when making a purchase. The spend needed to convert someone over 50 into a new customer is much larger then the spend needed to convert a 30 year-old.

I'm part of that crowd, but my habits aren't locked in. Sure, I drink Canadian Club out of habit, but I'm willing to try other brands and sometimes do. As for beer, other than one or two brands I dislike, I have no loyalty at all. I often have several brands in the house at the same time.

I have a favourite fast food joint but often try their competition if I learn a bout a new product or special deal, through advertising.

With automobiles, I have zero brand loyalty. The one I buy just has to meet three criteria. It has to be new. It has to be built in North America. And it must be Union built.

Clothing brands? Don't even get me started on that.

Last edited by turkeytop (October 27, 2021 10:27 am)

paterson1 · October 27, 2021 10:27 am

Thanks Mace, I forgot about Showbuzz Daily, since they were down for a while and I thought they weren't in the ratings game anymore. Yes they are good, but I wish they would do a weekly top 30 for broadcast. They do something like that for cable but I can't find broadcast. Other sites seem to just show 18-49 demo which I understand to a point, but the 50+ crowd has a lot more money to spend, and they do. Also read somewhere that new research shows that the older demo is not necessarily as set in their ways as originally thought. They in fact do change products and will try something new, if it makes sense for them to use it. They may be more selective but when they buy it is big money. I would think any advertiser would be interested in that.

RadioActive · October 27, 2021 10:38 am

paterson1 wrote:
Thanks Mace, I forgot about Showbuzz Daily, since they were down for a while and I thought they weren't in the ratings game anymore. Yes they are good, but I wish they would do a weekly top 30 for broadcast. They do something like that for cable but I can't find broadcast. Other sites seem to just show 18-49 demo which I understand to a point, but the 50+ crowd has a lot more money to spend, and they do. Also read somewhere that new research shows that the older demo is not necessarily as set in their ways as originally thought. They in fact do change products and will try something new, if it makes sense for them to use it. They may be more selective but when they buy it is big money. I would think any advertiser would be interested in that.

Yes, and that is exactly what Moses Znaimer realized when he created the Zoomer brand for both radio and a magazine. Older people are more likely to listen to the radio (especially AM), including the music they grew up with. And I doubt a lot of 20-somethings are heavily into published magazines.

I have no idea how much money AM740 makes, but I'm sure its niche audience is very loyal (if smaller than other stations in the market) and its ads could be influential to those it targets. I have never been a huge fan of Mr. Znaimer but I have a grudging respect for him. He has always had the ability to find a neglected audience and program to them.

His will never be an all-things-to-all-people CHFI, but - especially with that killer signal - his station reaches a lot of the very age groups that most advertisers ignore or don't really want. They must be doing something right. Not to mention making money.

October 27, 2021 10:51 am

In summary of this thread (so far) . . . Posters who are age 50 plus
- have income + $200,000 per annum
- buy a new (not used) car every 3 or 4 years and won't consider a Lexus or Infinity
- just renovated the rec room
- is sitting on + $500,000 cash + securities
- lives in a $1.8 million residence
- drinks Canadian Club (in moderation, hopefully)
- posts frequently on SOWNY

turkeytop · October 27, 2021 11:09 am

geo wrote:
In summary of this thread (so far) . . . Posters who are age 50 plus
- have income + $200,000 per annum
- buy a new (not used) car every 3 or 4 years and won't consider a Lexus or Infinity
- just renovated the rec room
- is sitting on + $500,000 cash + securities
- lives in a $1.8 million residence
- drinks Canadian Club (in moderation, hopefully)
- posts frequently on SOWNY

Well, two out of seven aint bad.

mace · October 27, 2021 1:35 pm

You are correct patterson1. Showbuzz Daily only has a weekly ranking of the top U.S. cable shows. Variety and USA Today usually publish a season ending report card of the top 100 U.S. programs including average number of viewers. I don't think either publication produces a weekly ranking. Perhaps the Hollywood Reporter? The only list I have been able to find is on tvseriesfinale.com which has a ranking of each show through week 5 by 18-49 demographic and total viewers. Unfortunately, it is not broken down by week. It is fun to see a list of the top 30 shows each week. That doesn't tell the whole story of a series survival. More importantly, if a show wins or is at least competitive in its timeslot, chances of renewal are good. The Simpsons are a good example. Now in its 33rd season, Homer and friends have cracked the Neilsen top 30 only three times. #28 in 1989-90 and #30 in 1992-93 and 1997-98.

RadioAaron · October 27, 2021 7:25 pm

I'd love to see *recent* research about the buying habits of the 55+ population. Gut feeling and casual observation tells me advertisers are missing out.

October 28, 2021 7:06 am

RadioAaron wrote:
I'd love to see *recent* research about the buying habits of the 55+ population

Data on buying habits is captured every time someone uses a debit or credit card. What is not understood is which local radio station influenced the purchase (whether @ the mall or on the 'net)

paterson1 · October 28, 2021 11:06 am

One area where the 55+ crowd is recognized all the time would be on news reports, especially US network news. I don't watch the news that much from CBS,ABC or NBC but when I do it is always striking the amount of medical and drug advertising during these broadcasts. Most of these ads are geared to people in the older demos, and appear in every commercial break on all three networks.

Ads for laxatives, headaches, shingles, retirement planning, health insurance, memory loss, stair climbers etc. etc. If you flip between the networks they often have the same ads running on all three, not at the same time however. Most of these ads and others show up on the news channels as well. This trend is also happening in Canada, but we do have stricter laws regarding advertising and claims for drugs and pharmaceuticals, so not as many appear on CBC and CTV news channels.

So on news programming the older groups seem to be well represented. But in regular prime time beyond news, not so much...https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/marketers-are-ignoring-nearly-4-trillion-in-consumer-spending-301215221.html

turkeytop · October 28, 2021 1:09 pm

I'm not a TV watcher and radio hardly knows our demographic exists.

The advertising that capture my attention most is in the weekly printed flyers the stores send out. Now, some of them are getting out of that form of advertising. Want us to download a ap on our phones. My phone is on the kitchen wall and doesn't do aps.

October 28, 2021 1:13 pm

turkeytop wrote:
I'm not a TV watcher and radio hardly knows our demographic exists. My phone is on the kitchen wall

Paterson1 asked "could someone please explain . . . why 18 - 49 demo rules?" and you just did, gramps

turkeytop · October 28, 2021 1:17 pm

geo wrote:
turkeytop wrote:
I'm not a TV watcher and radio hardly knows our demographic exists. My phone is on the kitchen wall
Paterson1 asked "could someone please explain . . . why 18 - 49 demo rules?" and you just did, gramps

I'm not Gramps yet. No grand kids. Just a grand dog. our son's yellow lab.

RadioAaron · October 28, 2021 8:18 pm

geo wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
I'd love to see *recent* research about the buying habits of the 55+ population
Data on buying habits is captured every time someone uses a debit or credit card. What is not understood is which local radio station influenced the purchase (whether @ the mall or on the 'net)

Not just which station influenced it, but if *any* form of advertising did. The conventional thought was that older people were set with their brands and harder to convince to try others. The problem is, many media/advertising sectors rely on assumptions based on research done too far in the past, and just repeat it like it's still true today. Lately, I see more repetition of these assumptions and less fresh evidence.

Tomas Barlow · October 28, 2021 10:45 pm

turkeytop wrote:
I'm not a TV watcher and radio hardly knows our demographic exists.

The advertising that capture my attention most is in the weekly printed flyers the stores send out. Now, some of them are getting out of that form of advertising. Want us to download a ap on our phones. My phone is on the kitchen wall and doesn't do aps.

Exactly. You're expensive to reach and convert. You're not worth it compared to a 25 year-old who willingly gives out their contact info all over the web. One Google pixel lands on their computer and I know all of their buying habits if I'm an advertiser. It comes back to CPM. Cost per 100 viewers/listeners.

Last edited by Tomas Barlow (October 28, 2021 10:47 pm)

Radiowiz · October 28, 2021 11:26 pm

Tomas Barlow wrote:
Exactly. You're expensive to reach and convert. You're not worth it compared to a 25 year-old who willingly gives out their contact info all over the web. One Google pixel lands on their computer and I know all of their buying habits if I'm an advertiser. It comes back to CPM. Cost per 100 viewers/listeners.

Your point is very good, but speaking of "set in their ways" the 20 something Apple phone user seems to be very loyal. Far more difficult for Samsung to convince that crowd to switch.
To make my point stronger, LG got that message loud and clear and decided to stop making smart phones...even though maybe an LG "Large button" phone might still have done well for targeting seniors instead of the 20 somethings...

turkeytop · October 29, 2021 12:43 am

Tomas Barlow wrote:
[
Exactly. You're expensive to reach and convert. You're not worth it compared to a 25 year-old who willingly gives out their contact info all over the web. One Google pixel lands on their computer and I know all of their buying habits if I'm an advertiser. It comes back to CPM. Cost per 100 viewers/listeners.

I have to rely on that antiquated print media because radio has shut me out, unless I want to listen to right wing political ranting, hip hop,head banging heavy metal, or cowboy music.

Last edited by turkeytop (October 29, 2021 12:45 am)

October 29, 2021 7:53 am

paterson1 wrote:
They have over $500,000 in cash and investments

If their $500,000 portfolio included positions in Bell, Corus &/or Rogers, it might not be worth $500 grand anymore. Bell traded yesterday at $63.63. down from $66.71 in Sept; Corus traded at $5.63, down from $6.31 in June and Rogers traded at $58.00, down from $67.00 in June

paterson1 · October 29, 2021 8:39 am

geo wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
They have over $500,000 in cash and investments
If their $500,000 portfolio included positions in Bell, Corus &/or Rogers, it might not be worth $500 grand anymore. Bell traded yesterday at $63.63. down from $66.71 in Sept; Corus traded at $5.63, down from $6.31 in June and Rogers traded at $58.00, down from $67.00 in June

Well you would need to have a pretty pathetic financial advisor if you haven't been making money in the last year. The TSX is up 36% from a year ago. In fact it has been one of the hottest stock markets anywhere. Trick is that the markets are up and down and you haven't made anything until you pull the stock and convert to cash. That $500,000 was worth $368,000 one year ago. So a nice profit of $132,000 in one year. Not bad for not doing much...

Last edited by paterson1 (October 29, 2021 8:41 am)

mace · October 29, 2021 9:00 am

turkeytop wrote:
I'm not a TV watcher and radio hardly knows our demographic exists.

The advertising that capture my attention most is in the weekly printed flyers the stores send out. Now, some of them are getting out of that form of advertising. Want us to download a ap on our phones. My phone is on the kitchen wall and doesn't do aps.

No Frills no longer sends out Flyers. There is one posted in store. They have joined many other retailers in posting their sales flyers on the "Flipp" app. You can search by category. Grocery, Pharmacy, Home&Garden, Sporting Goods, Automotive, Pet Supplies, Fashion, Office Supplies, Baby/Kids and General Merchandise. Very Handy and easy to use.

turkeytop · October 29, 2021 9:07 am

mace wrote:
No Frills no longer sends out Flyers. There is one posted in store. They have joined many other retailers in posting their sales flyers on the "Flipp" app. You can search by category. Grocery, Pharmacy, Home&Garden, Sporting Goods, Automotive, Pet Supplies, Fashion, Office Supplies, Baby/Kids and General Merchandise. Very Handy and easy to use.

No Thrills, Freshco, Metro and Basic Food still send out Flyers in London. Giant Tiger is intermittent. Our phone on the kitchen wall doesn't do aps.

Lorne · October 29, 2021 9:54 am

I receive flyers from all of the above stores, and a number of others, with my community newspaper (Scarborough Mirror).

betaylored · October 29, 2021 10:26 am

RadioAaron wrote:
geo wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
I'd love to see *recent* research about the buying habits of the 55+ population
Data on buying habits is captured every time someone uses a debit or credit card. What is not understood is which local radio station influenced the purchase (whether @ the mall or on the 'net)

Not just which station influenced it, but if *any* form of advertising did. The conventional thought was that older people were set with their brands and harder to convince to try others. The problem is, many media/advertising sectors rely on assumptions based on research done too far in the past, and just repeat it like it's still true today. Lately, I see more repetition of these assumptions and less fresh evidence.

There's a huge untapped market of older middle aged people who want current tech products without all the bells and whistles, gear that's cool looking and doesn't shout to associates, friends and family "hey, I'm an old fart because I carry a flip phone!"

Yesterday afternoon heard a spot for a men's sexual performance product on TSN 1050, that was immediately followed by a Reliable We Fix Your Wonky Plumbing spot, the segue from one to another was hilarious.

There's a whole fairly well off audience going unserviced. Pun intended.

Last edited by betaylored (October 29, 2021 10:30 am)

turkeytop · October 29, 2021 11:39 am

When cell phones first came out, the goal was to make them smaller and smaller. They could be carried discretely in one's pocket or purse. Now, they just keep getting bigger. Everyone carries them around in their hand. May as well have "Middle Class" stamped right on their forehead.

Not the image a working class guy like me wants to project.