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March 10, 2021 12:14 pm  #1


CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

The release of the CRTC's recent survey on broadcasting has given Sun/Post Media more reasons to shut down the CBC. Only 3% are watching CBC TV at any given time, and only 28% found that CBC Radio was an important service.   More from the Sun's Lorne Gunter..https://torontosun.com/news/national/time-to-mute-the-cbc-new-poll-should-be-taken-seriously?__vfz=medium%3Dstandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads  

 

March 10, 2021 12:34 pm  #2


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

geo wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

   release of the CRTC's recent survey on broadcasting has given Sun/Post Media more reasons to shut down the CBC. Only 3% are watching CBC TV at any given time, and only 28% found that CBC Radio was an important service 

There you have it!    (someone recently posted that print media never has anything to say about broadcast media)
 

More accurately, myself and a few others have said that the Toronto print media does a poor job of covering the radio and television industries in the city.  Didn't say that they never had anything to say about broadcasting. They just do a lousy job, although of late seem to be getting a bit better. 

 Anti CBC rants would not be a good example since Sun/Post Media have been on this kick about closing the CBC for about 25 years or more.  Their reason is political and money, nothing really to do with the business of broadcasting. 

Let's see if any Toronto papers post the radio ratings in the next week or so.  The Star, Sun, even Globe and Mail used to, but haven't for years.  Also I wish they would write about local TV and radio more than they do.  How about the ratings for CBC News Network, CTV News Channel, CP24 and CNN in Canada?  They never have them.  How come?  US papers are always covering the rating battles between CNN, FOX, MSNBC news networks.  But here??  Crickets... 

Last edited by paterson1 (March 10, 2021 12:36 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

March 10, 2021 1:10 pm  #3


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

 Their reason is political and money, nothing really to do with the business of broadcasting

Are you saying that their readers react positively to the topic?      
 

 

March 10, 2021 1:29 pm  #4


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

geo wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

 Their reason is political and money, nothing really to do with the business of broadcasting

Are you saying that their readers react positively to the topic?      
 

What do you think?

     Thread Starter
 

March 10, 2021 1:41 pm  #5


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

  What do you think?

They're not in the business to offend subscribers
 

 

March 10, 2021 1:41 pm  #6


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

US papers are always covering the rating battles between CNN, FOX, MSNBC news networks.  But here??  Crickets... 

Because, like so much in the US right now, that race is used as a political barometer. 

I just don't see much in Canadian media worthy of reporting. In the past year on the radio side I'd say the forced sale of G98.7 in context of Black owned radio, Layoffs, and the Jays radio story are about it - and they were covered. The radio ratings available to the media aren't really an indication of anything useful. More contextual stories like how the CBC fares against private radio, and how it's different from region-to-region, or a broad look at if it's a big year for Top 40 or Country or Alternative or whatever, could have some interest.
 

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 10, 2021 1:44 pm)


 
 

March 10, 2021 1:56 pm  #7


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

A few others worth noting (and they were): The massive Bell cuts, the lack of unique radio coverage for the Blue Jays games and the firing of Mike Wilner from the Fan that was an early preview of the move and the death of Dick Smyth. All worthy stories. 

But there was a time that The Star ran a weekly radio column and of course, there was Gary Dunford in the Sun with his almost daily radio rumours, stories, gossip and updates on the ratings. I miss those. (Although The Star's Greg Quill seemed to concentrate solely on the CBC as if it was the only radio station in Toronto.)

Either no one cares anymore or just as likely, they just don't have the horses to do it, with so many employees being let go. 

 

March 10, 2021 2:07 pm  #8


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

It's just some old conservative hag rambling and spewing.
I don't listen to CBC radio but I want it to still be there. 
How about counting me in? 
I count too!  (instead of only counting people who actually listen)
Same with CBC TV, but more viewer input would be nice.
 

Last edited by Radiowiz (March 10, 2021 2:08 pm)


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

March 10, 2021 2:20 pm  #9


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

What percentage of Canadians read Sun Post papers?

 

March 10, 2021 2:48 pm  #10


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

turkeytop wrote:

What percentage of Canadians read Sun Post papers?

How many Canadians' lips move as they read?
 

 

March 10, 2021 3:20 pm  #11


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

Anybody have a link to this survey that breaks down the results, methodology and margin of error?
 
It's Post Media so the probability of cherry picking results to keep step with their agenda is very high...also things must have done a complete 180 in less than 4 years:
 
https://friends.ca/explore/article/nanos-poll-feds-should-protect-local-news-and-cbcs-independence/  
 
 
From a Nanos poll in June 2017 –
 
'…The investment Canadians make in the CBC is broadly supported, with 82% believing that CBC funding should be increased (43%) or maintained at current levels (39%). Only 14% think CBC funding should be decreased from current levels….Half (49%) of Canadians think CBC should continue to rely on advertising to fund its programming operations; one-in-three (36%) think CBC funding should be increased and ads eliminated, while 10% think CBC funding should be frozen and ads eliminated…’

 

March 10, 2021 4:24 pm  #12


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

Johnny B wrote:

Anybody have a link to this survey that breaks down the results, methodology and margin of error?

I believe you can find it here

Here's the chart that's referred to, under the headline Perceived Importance of Various Broadcasting Platforms

https://i.ibb.co/ykp3W4G/cbc.jpg

 

 

March 10, 2021 4:43 pm  #13


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

turkeytop wrote:

What percentage of Canadians read Sun Post papers?

Probably more than many people would assume, since they own so much. Where I live, they own both dailies (Vancouver Sun and The Province), and they own most major dailies in Ontario that aren't owned by Torstar (the Star, the K-W Record, and the Hamilton Spectator).

They basically control major print media in most of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, most of Ontario, and Anglo Montreal.

Last edited by MJ Vancouver (March 10, 2021 4:48 pm)

 

March 10, 2021 5:21 pm  #14


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

MJ Vancouver wrote:

turkeytop wrote:

What percentage of Canadians read Sun Post papers?

Probably more than many people would assume, since they own so much. Where I live, they own both dailies (Vancouver Sun and The Province), and they own most major dailies in Ontario that aren't owned by Torstar (the Star, the K-W Record, and the Hamilton Spectator.

Not meant as criticism, MJ, but we don't...OK, I don't want you to forget Welland.
Toronto Star, The Hamilton Spectator, Welland Tribune,  the Waterloo Region Record, The St. Catharines Standard, The Niagara Falls Review, The Peterborough Examiner, Metroland community newspapers and several other media properties.
Thanks. 

 

 

March 10, 2021 6:03 pm  #15


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

Chrisphen wrote:

turkeytop wrote:

What percentage of Canadians read Sun Post papers?

How many Canadians' lips move as they read?
 

Great line.


 
 

March 10, 2021 6:21 pm  #16


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

RadioActive wrote:

Johnny B wrote:

Anybody have a link to this survey that breaks down the results, methodology and margin of error?

I believe you can find it here

Here's the chart that's referred to, under the headline Perceived Importance of Various Broadcasting Platforms

https://i.ibb.co/ykp3W4G/cbc.jpg

 

Thanks!

I could use the data below from the same survey to make a 4-minute YouTube video that is virtually opposite to what Post Media and it's US ownership overlords want you to believe:

Commercial radio listeners are generally satisfied with the listening experience (47% 8-10 on 10 pt scale) and impressions are strongest for the availability of programming in the listeners’ preferred language (66%) and the quality (48%) and frequency of information (45%).
 
Satisfaction with the listening experience is very consistent among those who report listening to each platform- highest for streaming music services (54%), followed by CBC Radio/ ICI Radio-Canada (48%), podcasts (47%), commercial AM/FM radio (47%) and satellite radio (42%). Few are dissatisfied with the listening experience across all platforms.
 
Satisfaction with commercial radio is considerably lower for the variety of programming (35% 8-10 on 10 pt scale), diversity of songs, genres or artists (32%) and promotion of Canadian artists (30%) and most believe that commercial radio is too focused on popular music (51% strongly/ somewhat agree).
 
The most common suggested areas for improvement include having fewer commercials (43%), more diverse musical content (32%), more local content (20%) and more timely news coverage (18%).
 
Opinions are more mixed about the quality of programming (41%) and the availability of local content (39%). Qualitatively, some believe that commercial radio is a good source of local news, while others believe that there could be more local information added to newscasts.
 
The qualitative research also found that perceptions of diversity in commercial radio are mixed. While some believe there is good diversity available including exposure to local and new artists, others believe that commercial radio could be improved by increasing these. Many believe that certain songs are played repetitively and experience fatigue as a result.
 
Canadians exhibit a strong sense of patriotism towards the promotion of Canadian artists and music and feel it is essential to ensuring a strong Canadian culture (62% strongly/ somewhat agree). Sentiment towards promoting French-language music is even stronger among Francophones and the vast majority feel it is essential to ensuring a strong French-language culture in Canada (72%).
 
Most Canadians feel it is important that we continue to promote Canadian artists through content rules (60%) and that more should be done to promote new and emerging Canadian artists on commercial radio (51%). However, many also admit that they don't pay a lot of attention to whether the artist is Canadian or not when listening to music (58%).
 
Awareness of commercial radio station ownership is relatively low. However some concern exists about concentration of ownership and that it may limit the diversity of opinions and music available or limit Canadians access to different sources of information.
 
Nearly half (47%) of Canadians do not know which companies operate the radio station(s) they listen to, while three in ten do (31%) and two in ten (22%) know some but not for all stations.
 
Four in ten (42% very/ somewhat concerned) express concern about the concentration of ownership of commercial radio stations in Canada of which most are somewhat concerned (31%) and nearly half of Canadians feel that concentration of ownership will limit the diversity of opinions and music genres available to Canadians (46%) or that it will limit access to different sources of information and impact our ability to remain well informed (45%).
 

 

March 10, 2021 7:50 pm  #17


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

Sun/Post Media has been always very selective on which statistics they use when talking about CBC.  They tend to ignore CBC radio since it is reasonably popular across the country.  Although they now seem to be saying to get rid of CBC radio as well since "only" 28% in the survey said that the service was important.
 
About a month ago they went on about how CBC advertising revenues were down something like 19% last year.  This was further proof they said on how nobody likes CBC, even advertisers.  Anyone want to guess how much Post/Sun Media revenues were down last year?  COVID impacted all advertising, not just CBC. Naturally this wasn't part of the article. 

The CRTC survey conducted by IPSOS was a big one since about 4,800 people took part, and I was initially worried that it may have been weighted down with special interest groups like Friends of Canadian Broadcasting, or people who only listen to CBC radio.  Doesn't look like this happened.

To me, CBC radio having 28% of the public feeling that it is an important service sounds about right.  Don't know why Lorne is trying to make this sound like it is terrible.  Two thirds of people listen to private radio and not CBC, and given the sheer number of private stations would make sense.
 
And as Johnny B has pointed out in his excellent post above, there is also some concerns from the public regarding private broadcasting and ownership.  It is noteworthy that the public is on board with cancon, and the promotion of Canadian artists. 

Cancon continues to be a big deal to broadcasters since many don't like the regulation and sadly a few still tend to do the bare minimum, even try to circumvent the regs.  The public doesn't care, and the survey bares this out.  Canadian music is like all music, you either like the song or not. 

Canadians also wouldn't be able to tell you the nationality of most of the artists, other than the most popular, or artists that talk about where they are from.  The fact that people don't necessarily know who is Canadian is actually a good thing, it could mean that they are listening to music with open ears and either enjoy or dislike the song or artist.

But it also may highlight that we also don't have the infrastructure to promote our own artists.  CTV, CBC, City, Global have no shows and little programming that showcases Canadian artists.  Our biggest artists perform on TV in other countries when on tour, but never at home.

I remember years ago seeing Nelly Furtado on an Australian late night talk show. This show had a studio audience, house band and interesting host.  Nelly was a star, and the crowd loved her.  She performed her latest hit live and then a sit down with the host.  The interview showed another side of Furtado and it was pretty interesting.  But sad I thought, since she wouldn't be on a similar show in her own country, because there isn't one.  

     Thread Starter
 

March 10, 2021 8:09 pm  #18


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

Cancon continues to be a big deal to broadcasters since many don't like the regulation and sadly a few still tend to do the bare minimum, even try to circumvent the regs.  The public doesn't care, and the survey bares this out.  Canadian music is like all music, you either like the song or not. 
 

"Supporting Cancon" will never not be the right answer to a survey, but it's insincere. You're right, the public doesn't care, and it shows in any form you can measure their consumption when it's their choice, where the actual consumed level of Cancon is far lower than the regulated radio percentage.

In a time of unlimited options, forcing one form of media to go against the taste of its audience while its competitors are free to reflect it will inevitably damage it considerably.
 

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 10, 2021 8:13 pm)


 
 

March 10, 2021 8:36 pm  #19


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

For reference, cancon levels of the Top 100 for streaming in various genres:

Overall: 12% (50% of those are Drake or The Weekend, who are not Cancon success stories)
Rock: 5%
Country: 4%
R&B/Hip Hop: 9% (All but one track is not Drake/Weekend)
Alternative: 6%


 
 

March 10, 2021 9:34 pm  #20


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

Cancon continues to be a big deal to broadcasters since many don't like the regulation and sadly a few still tend to do the bare minimum, even try to circumvent the regs.  The public doesn't care, and the survey bares this out.  Canadian music is like all music, you either like the song or not. 
 

"Supporting Cancon" will never not be the right answer to a survey, but it's insincere. You're right, the public doesn't care, and it shows in any form you can measure their consumption when it's their choice, where the actual consumed level of Cancon is far lower than the regulated radio percentage.

In a time of unlimited options, forcing one form of media to go against the taste of its audience while its competitors are free to reflect it will inevitably damage it considerably.
 

True when someone is streaming on Spotify, or picking their tunes they likely aren't listening to 35% cancon.  But to say it is because they now have a choice or the service is reflecting their taste is also inaccurate. 

The CRTC survey indicates many are not aware who Canadian artists are anyway, so the not listening to cancon because I now have a choice can't be right.   It is more likely because 97% of the music on Spotify isn't cancon in the first place.  And the fact that some people will listen to the same songs over and over.

Cancon supposedly damaging radio has been pushed by some in broadcasting and others since 1971, and is just an excuse.    Much of the damage to radio is self inflicted by the industry.  Boring, lazy sloppy programming, constant shortcuts and giving people less and less of a service or even a reason to listen would be the problem. 

The cutbacks and doing less started long before radio was having revenue problems or audiences leaving.   Now that broadcasters have new more savvy competition is just another excuse to do less.  Didn't Blackberry try and be like the iPhone?  Radio trying to be something it's not isn't going to work.  That ship left years ago.

Most commercial radio stations who think they can survive by music alone or somehow compete with streaming services or satellite are kidding themselves.  If cancon was the problem or a disadvantage, why is radio in the US and a few other countries in trouble even prior to COVID?  Why have three of the five biggest radio chains in America all declared bankruptcy or sought Chapter 1 protection in the last 10 years?    The day is quickly coming where most stations had better have more than music to attract listeners.  Because music, with or without cancon, won't be enough.  

Last edited by paterson1 (March 10, 2021 9:37 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

March 10, 2021 9:47 pm  #21


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

True when someone is streaming on Spotify, or picking their tunes they likely aren't listening to 35% cancon.  But to say it is because they now have a choice or the service is reflecting their taste is also inaccurate. 

The CRTC survey indicates many are not aware who Canadian artists are anyway, so the not listening to cancon because I now have a choice can't be right.   It is more likely because 97% of the music on Spotify isn't cancon in the first place.  And the fact that some people will listen to the same songs over and over. 

That is absolute nonsense. 

Radio is playing 7 times more Cancon than listeners are choosing when it's up to them. It doesn't matter if they know what songs are Cancon or not, if this was having *any* impact, it would reflect in what they're choosing to listen to; there are very few streaming services that don't offer "on-demand" streaming. If Cancon is not reflected in streaming or sales, what exactly is it accomplishing?

And you're absolutely right that radio has to lean on the strength of its non-music content, but the music occupies the majority of the time, and every fourth song being there for any reason other than demand is un-sustainable.
 

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 10, 2021 9:49 pm)


 
 

March 10, 2021 10:05 pm  #22


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

Nonsense, not really.  Many that use Spotify choose from what is on their many playlists and charts.  So if this is how you get your music, and Canadian artists other than the obvious aren't there, the numbers would reflect this.

Also it is interesting to see what little impact radio now has on music anyway.  Look at the Spotify charts, they don't resemble what is being heard on the radio much either.  Radio hasn't been making "the hits" for a long time. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 10, 2021 10:11 pm  #23


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

So, if as you say, radio isn't having an impact on music, what is Cancon accomplishing?
 


 
 

March 10, 2021 10:21 pm  #24


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

Much of the damage to radio is self inflicted by the industry.  Boring, lazy sloppy programming, constant shortcuts and giving people less and less of a service or even a reason to listen would be the problem. 

Correct.  Radio used to provide entertainment, creative and energetic "DJ's" and news staff, "appointment programming" and a reason to listen.  They were alive!

Today they play some music, talk about random stuff, direct you to their Facebook or Instagram page and then repeat.   Boring.


 

 

March 11, 2021 1:54 am  #25


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

RadioAaron wrote:

So, if as you say, radio isn't having an impact on music, what is Cancon accomplishing?
 

Radio does not have near the influence that it once had on music or trends.  This is for many reasons, fragmentation, new media, people not listening to radio for music as much, lack of variety, slowness to play new artists or songs. mediocre programming.   Cancon is no different, all of these same reasons apply. 

However this would be no reason to drop playing Canadian artists, or only playing the "Billboard" Canadian music.  The regulations could be modified with more flexibility.  Even if the regs don't change, playing Canadian music is not the reason for radio's ills.  It is a convenient excuse and nothing more.

The purpose of a radio station, even music station is not to sell music, Canadian or otherwise.   But artists, particularly new artists, should not be shunned by broadcasters or treated differently simply because of where they are from, especially those from their own country.   

 

     Thread Starter
 

March 11, 2021 8:09 am  #26


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

RadioActive wrote:

     the death of Dick Smyth  

The print-edition Globe 'n Mail has an (almost) full-page tribute on pg. B18 this morning

 

March 11, 2021 10:31 am  #27


Re: CRTC Survey Gives Reason to Shut Down CBC Says Sun/Post Media

paterson1 wrote:

Nonsense, not really.  Many that use Spotify choose from what is on their many playlists and charts.  So if this is how you get your music, and Canadian artists other than the obvious aren't there, the numbers would reflect this.

Also it is interesting to see what little impact radio now has on music anyway.  Look at the Spotify charts, they don't resemble what is being heard on the radio much either.  Radio hasn't been making "the hits" for a long time. 

You are bang on about radio no longer making the hits. I compared the Spotify chart to the March 6th Hot 100. Of the top 25 songs, only 11 appeared on both charts. The only thing both charts had in common was the ranking of Olivia Rodrigo's Drivers Licence at #1.