The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Anyone else having recent issues with Buffalo OTA stations?

TechGirl · December 10, 2019 6:59 pm

markow202 wrote:
I seem to live in a good zone for OTA (Kipling/Eglinton) of Central Etobicoke. Partially because it is on a higher elevation. Judging by view, my antenna in a straight line is higher than the tallest condo at Parklawn and Lakeshore.

Nice! The more channels the better! :-)

BTW: Does anyone know if CTV2 is available around Toronto? I keep seeing a reference to a Barrie repeater in Hamilton and Fonthill. Is this not out of Toronto? I think the one in Hamilton is 35.1 (maybe).

TechGirl · December 10, 2019 7:19 pm

markow202 wrote:
TechGirl wrote:
Hopefully the OTA Gods smile upon me once again. LOL I'm beginning to wonder if something is going on in downtown Toronto (either CN Tower or something else like the Island Airport) that just started. I was driving on the Gardiner through the downtown area (jarvis, yonge, spadina) a couple weeks ago and my radio suddenly started crackling and humming really bad. It didn't clear until I got out around Bathurst. I haven't had that happen before. My antenna faces in this direction. Hmmm. :-)
Certainly you werent listening to a CN Tower station? If it was some other station such as a Buffalo one or Z103.5 then it was simply being overloaded by the CN Tower signals. Normal.

LOL. I can't remember which station it was. I jump between a Toronto station and a Hamilton station. I think it was the Toronto station I was on (CHFI for the Christmas music) but it might have been Hamilton. The disturbance was enough that I had to turn the volume down until it cleared.

Glen Warren · December 10, 2019 7:29 pm

BTW: Does anyone know if CTV2 is available around Toronto? I keep seeing a reference to a Barrie repeater in Hamilton and Fonthill. Is this not out of Toronto? I think the one in Hamilton is 35.1 (maybe)

Yes, CKVR has two repeaters. One is CHCJ-DT Hamilton on RF 35 / Virtual 35.1. The other is CKVP-DT in Fonthill on RF 42 / Virtual 42.

pinto · December 10, 2019 8:13 pm

I get 35.1 off the backside of the antenna from time to time, but nothing on a regular basis. Pointing to the CN Tower and Buffalo out of Whitby.

TechGirl · December 12, 2019 12:13 pm

@pinto & @Glen. Thanks for your replies. I added 35 and nothing comes up. I will try 42 and move my antenna around. I'm kind of surprised I can't get a CTV channel in Toronto.

markow202 · December 12, 2019 2:48 pm

TechGirl wrote:
@pinto & @Glen. Thanks for your replies. I added 35 and nothing comes up. I will try 42 and move my antenna around. I'm kind of surprised I can't get a CTV channel in Toronto.

Both 35 and 42 tend to be weak in the GTA. I beleive 42 is the stronger one however it depends where you are. Their towers arent tall.

I dont receive 42 from Fonthill but receive a stable weak 35 from Hamilton. Im sure if I was facing north id probably pick up CKVR 3- Barrie.

RadioActive · December 12, 2019 2:53 pm

CKVR comes in great here in northern North York - but only if I turn my rotor due north. And then, of course, I lose all the Buffalo stations. Which is why I rarely bother.

markow202 · December 12, 2019 3:00 pm

RadioActive wrote:
CKVR comes in great here in northern North York - but only if I turn my rotor due north. And then, of course, I lose all the Buffalo stations. Which is why I rarely bother.

Whereabouts in North York?

RadioActive · December 12, 2019 3:04 pm

Not far from Bathurst & Steeles.

TechGirl · December 12, 2019 8:19 pm

Wow, a Christmas miracle just happened. All of my lost Buffalo stations (2s, 4s, 7s, 23s, 49s) just came back (and it's only 7pm, not 1am like the last time) and holy cow they're the strength of the 51s (ION). I mean WOW! Even the 2s (which I got in the past but the conditions had to be super perfect) are crystal clear. I wonder how long this gift will last?! LOL! At least I know that I can still pull them in. I was seriously beginning to think Buffalo had moved. :-) I will keep everyone posted as to how long these stay with me. :-)

TechGirl · December 13, 2019 6:54 pm

Almost 24 hours and everything is still pretty good. The 7's and 49's have popped in and out but for the most part everything has been pretty stable and the 2's are still really strong which is shocking because they were the worst of all the channels. I'm also surprised at how strong the 4's and 23's are at this moment in time. Maybe they completed their work on the tower (fingers crossed).

markow202 · December 17, 2019 11:23 am

I dont know if this would play an effect on signals or not - but looked up at the CN Tower antenna mast radome and its incased in snow and ice. I beleive I heard its a different "weather pattern" up there especially temperature.

TechGirl · December 17, 2019 12:05 pm

I'm sure the CN Tower creates its own weather pattern. LOL!!

I ended up losing my perfect signals again but I had them for a few days so I have hope all will return to normal when all of the repack stuff is done and all antenna/transmitter changes have been made. I guess it's possible the weather is also playing an effect but I haven't had problems like this (signal lost for so long) in previous years but who knows... maybe something is going on atmospherically this year to hamper the signals to my little antenna. At least I haven't lost all of them. The 17s, 29s and 51s are still strong. It's only the stations that are still transitioning that seem to be an issue.

tvguy · December 17, 2019 4:31 pm

TechGirl....4/23 will not complete tower work until Spring 2020/ so you're stuck with marginal signals till then as they operate at less than 1/2 power and a lower elevation on the tower.
As for Ch 7, they forecast that the work will be completed on their tower for the end of Phase 8 repack which is March 13, 2020. Just under 90 days from now. Then you should experience a significant improvement in reception as they increase power and go back to the old tower height. Also WKBW operating on Ch. 34 should provide good reception in the Toronto area.

TechGirl · December 17, 2019 5:17 pm

tvguy wrote:
TechGirl....4/23 will not complete tower work until Spring 2020/ so you're stuck with marginal signals till then as they operate at less than 1/2 power and a lower elevation on the tower.
As for Ch 7, they forecast that the work will be completed on their tower for the end of Phase 8 repack which is March 13, 2020. Just under 90 days from now. Then you should experience a significant improvement in reception as they increase power and go back to the old tower height. Also WKBW operating on Ch. 34 should provide good reception in the Toronto area.

Thanks @tvguy! Yep... After I lost the signals again I have lowered my expectations until March. :-) I just find it interesting how I'm getting these blasts of clarity that's giving me reception better than what I've had in the past so each time this happens I keep thinking they completed their tower work early. LOL. Obviously not. It must simply be optimal weather that's allowing the signals to periodically get through given they haven't completed the work.

I will provide another update in March. :-)

RadioActive · December 19, 2019 5:00 pm

Here’s one I haven’t quite seen before and can’t explain. Maybe someone here can.

Although I rarely watch the CBC, occasionally I’ll tune into their local newscast. On Thursday, an old problem resurfaced. Even though CBLT-DT is one of the strongest signals in Toronto, I often have trouble getting it cleanly.

The Signal Strength is listed at 100, the best it can be. But the Signal Quality meter often fluctuates, from 100, then suddenly down to 24, then 9, then the picture pixelates and blinks out altogether. It usually returns soon after, when the process starts all over again.

I often have similar troubles with WKBW, but at least its weaker signal from Buffalo kind of makes sense. This one doesn’t. Don’t know how much a role the weather might play, but none of the other Toronto stations – CFTO, Global or City – ever has these issues, regardless of what's going on outside.

Location is near Bathurst & Steeles, on a high outside tower with a rotor. Adjusting the rotor doesn't help. I do have a pre-amp to boost the Buffalo stations, and wondered if the CBC Toronto signal was so strong, it was overpowering the DVR. But it doesn’t appear to be the case.

What, if anything, could be causing this? It’s been going on, off and on, on this one channel, for years.

TomTV · December 19, 2019 7:04 pm

That's strange. I never have this problem with CBC. I periodically have had reception problems with Global due to bad weather.

I noticed that last night right around 6:30pm, the signal strength for both CityTV and Global finally returned back to normal, after about a week of getting almost no reception. Doesn't seem to be related to bad weather since the conditions outside my building are still lousy.

markow202 · December 20, 2019 11:38 am

How would weather effect a Toronto station anyways? The signal is strong enough that weather wouldnt effect it.

As for CBC, I seen the issue once on my tv but mostly was due to heavy wind and trees moving around. This might sound funny, but im wondering if CN Tower swaying atop causes signal issues!

markow202 · January 6, 2020 4:20 pm

Reviving a somewhat old post and OTA related but this weekend I had noticed my Yamaha Stereo Receiver/Tuner has a FM coaxial antenna input so I had a little fun and plugged in the cable coming from my DB4E antenna outside. WOW the reception of out of town stations became full and clear, such as Barrie, Buffalo, Kitchener etc. Impressive. I will now use the antenna as a TV/FM. Some might want to try this if you have the capability.

I am located in central Etobicoke.

Last edited by markow202 (January 6, 2020 4:29 pm)

mace · January 6, 2020 5:57 pm

markow202 wrote:
Reviving a somewhat old post and OTA related but this weekend I had noticed my Yamaha Stereo Receiver/Tuner has a FM coaxial antenna input so I had a little fun and plugged in the cable coming from my DB4E antenna outside. WOW the reception of out of town stations became full and clear, such as Barrie, Buffalo, Kitchener etc. Impressive. I will now use the antenna as a TV/FM. Some might want to try this if you have the capability.

I am located in central Etobicoke.

Which Buffalo stations could you receive?

Fitz · January 6, 2020 11:25 pm

well being an old cable FM user this intrigued me and I tried it and it seems to be acting as a wire antenna only for me in my basement and I get better reception with various other antenna and on my HD receiver no reception at all.

BTW I am listening to the HD2 feed on Indie right now and they have three Beach Boys tracks on a loop but they are all tracks that were never released in true stereo. A suggestion please play Feel Flows, Marcella and Sail on Sailor as these were in stereo or maybe switch to Kraftwerk and Autobahn.

Edit: maybe they were paying attention as they are playing the Spoonful in stereo now.

Last edited by Fitz (January 7, 2020 12:21 am)

markow202 · January 7, 2020 11:20 am

mace wrote:
markow202 wrote:
Reviving a somewhat old post and OTA related but this weekend I had noticed my Yamaha Stereo Receiver/Tuner has a FM coaxial antenna input so I had a little fun and plugged in the cable coming from my DB4E antenna outside. WOW the reception of out of town stations became full and clear, such as Barrie, Buffalo, Kitchener etc. Impressive. I will now use the antenna as a TV/FM. Some might want to try this if you have the capability.

I am located in central Etobicoke.
Which Buffalo stations could you receive?

For Buffalo:

93.7
94.5 (weak)
96.9
98.5 (being mixed with 98.7)
99.5
102.5 (this is typical)
103.3 (very clear)
104.1 (weak)
107.7 (weak)

Fitz · January 7, 2020 11:38 am

markow202 wrote:
mace wrote:
markow202 wrote:
Reviving a somewhat old post and OTA related but this weekend I had noticed my Yamaha Stereo Receiver/Tuner has a FM coaxial antenna input so I had a little fun and plugged in the cable coming from my DB4E antenna outside. WOW the reception of out of town stations became full and clear, such as Barrie, Buffalo, Kitchener etc. Impressive. I will now use the antenna as a TV/FM. Some might want to try this if you have the capability.

I am located in central Etobicoke.
Which Buffalo stations could you receive?
For Buffalo:

93.7
94.5 (weak)
96.9
98.5 (being mixed with 98.7)
99.5
102.5 (this is typical)
103.3 (very clear)
104.1 (weak)
107.7 (weak)

Cable appears to be acting as an antenna for you.

I discovered cable FM around 1976 and used to listen to CFNY from Brampton before it's power increase and they had a very free form format. I think I listened to cable FM until the 1990's off and on in conjunction with over the air signals. The stations would sometime be at different frequencies than their on air position. WHTT from Buffalo was on Scarborough cable FM and 1050 CHUM had a stereo feed in the 1980's and 90's and so you could hear static free am well before HD and digital cable and I found that signal better than the am stereo feed.

Last edited by Fitz (January 7, 2020 11:45 am)

markow202 · January 7, 2020 11:50 am

Fitz wrote:
markow202 wrote:
mace wrote:

Which Buffalo stations could you receive?
For Buffalo:

93.7
94.5 (weak)
96.9
98.5 (being mixed with 98.7)
99.5
102.5 (this is typical)
103.3 (very clear)
104.1 (weak)
107.7 (weak)
Cable appears to be acting as an antenna for you.

I discovered cable FM around 1976 and used to listen to CFNY from Brampton before it's power increase and they had a very free form format. I think I listened to cable FM until the 1990's off and on in conjunction with over the air signals. The stations would sometime be at different frequencies than their on air position. WHTT from Buffalo was on Scarborough cable FM and 1050 CHUM had a stereo feed in the 1980's and 90's and so you could hear static free am well before HD and digital cable and I found that signal better than the am stereo feed.

I dont know if the cable itself (connected to the antenna) is working as the antenna. When I moved the cable around on a weak station nothing changed which it typically would in this case, but if I rotated the antenna the station came or went. It could be a bit of both.

I do recall "cable FM" back in the day, however a lot of the stations were on different frequencies from what I remember?

Fitz · January 7, 2020 1:54 pm

Just realized that you did not connect cable but an outdoor antenna via the coax input and that will help reception no doubt.

The radio content on cable has shifted to the digital box now and I think even just as few listen to that as to cable FM maybe even less % wise as radio is in decline.. Not really much of interest to me but you can get stable signals of a few am signals and Rogers for some reason continues to carry their Jack station from Vancouver on digital.

Last edited by Fitz (January 7, 2020 2:08 pm)

Fitz · January 12, 2020 12:41 pm

I no longer have an outdoor antenna which did provide me with excellent reception back in the 1970's and 80's. I do have a Clearstream indoor amplified TV antenna and I tried that today and it did provide some good FM reception. I tried the following ,including three Buffalo stations, which you can hear on the clip below:

CKDO 107.7 heard from 0 to 158 and note that at 13 seconds there is an audio alert about the Pickering Nuclear Plant and I saw something on the RDS display at the same time and my phone was also sounding the alarm. I actually do not ever remember hearing such an audio alert on the radio before.

CKDO DH from 158-215

WGRF from 215-331
WHTT from 331-423
WEDG from 323-435
The Grand HD from 435-544
Zommer 96.7 from 544-604
Zommer HD from 604 to end. The HD feed is slightly behind and so you will hear the same segment as on 96.7

I am in north west Pickering.

Radio Scan Jan 12/20

Last edited by Fitz (January 12, 2020 1:29 pm)