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April 19, 2019 6:20 pm  #1


CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Good Friday was the first time I saw this - a crawl at the top of CTV Toronto's 6 PM news warning antenna viewers it will soon be time to rescan their devices or lose access to channel 9.

It's all part of the North American repack that saw various TV frequencies sold to cell phone companies for a huge amount of money. I knew this was coming, I just didn't think it would be this soon. 

Here's what the crawl said:

"CTV Toronto's Channel 9.1 signal frequency is changing. After April 28, all CTV Toronto viewers using a rooftop or indoor antenna will need to rescan their TV channels to restore service." 

I'm not entirely sure where the new channel lies, but I think they may be going from channel 9 to channel 8. If not, I'd appreciate if anyone knows posting it here.  

 

April 19, 2019 9:19 pm  #2


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Yes, I believe CFTO-DT is moving from RF VHF 9 to RF VHF 8 (Virtual PSIP will remain as 9.1)

Co-incidentally, CKVR-DT will be moving from the current assignment of RF VHF 10 to RF VHF 9 (Virtual PSIP will remain as 3.1)

CFTO-DT has to move first, to allow CKVR-DT to follow with its move.

These changes are part of the N/E (US) area Phase 4 RF spectrum re-pack.

I think there is a TV Station which will be moving to RF VHF 9 in Rochester N.Y. so, this probably what is necessitating the move of CFTO-DT.

 

April 19, 2019 10:36 pm  #3


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

No doubt the new name of Channel Nine Court will be coming like a freight train. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/silly.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_Channel_Nine_Court

 

Last edited by Dial Twister (April 20, 2019 11:30 am)

 

April 20, 2019 6:30 am  #4


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

CFTO has to move because WHAM in Rochester is moving from 13 to 9, but I even though it is planned, I don't see a real reason why CKVR has to change channels.

 

April 21, 2019 7:08 am  #5


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

The reason why CFTO starts their move to ch 8 in April is because WHAM 13 in Rochester is scheduled to start testing on ch 9 June 22nd of this year. WUTV and WPXJ also start testing on their new channel assignments June 22nd. After that, Jan 18, 2020 is the big day for WNED and WKBW.

 

April 21, 2019 6:55 pm  #6


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

What are the new assignments for WUTV, WPXJ, WNED and WKBW?

 

April 21, 2019 9:09 pm  #7


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

According to the Rabbit Ears site, WUTV is moving from 14 to 36; WPXJ will migrate from 23 to 24; WNED will depart 43 over to 31; and WKBW will relocate from 38 to 34. You can check out the rest by going to market #54 here. (Toronto and Hamilton are listed together as 901.)

By the way, I've tried repeatedly to scan channel 8 just to see if there was any early CFTO testing there. (There's usually a dual illumination for a while before the original is turned off for good.) So far, nothing. But I expect it will turn up there soon. April 28 is next week!

Last edited by RadioActive (April 21, 2019 9:14 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

April 21, 2019 9:29 pm  #8


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

And just for us antenna owners...

https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57485944_3150568158301925_3075280554841604096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fybz1-1.fna&oh=cc2770649a1ea816ef5de8ec978da97f&oe=5D3E9435

     Thread Starter
 

April 22, 2019 6:53 am  #9


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

RadioActive wrote:

By the way, I've tried repeatedly to scan channel 8 just to see if there was any early CFTO testing there.

I suspect all they are going to do is turn the transmitter off, re tune it and the antenna [or a least the combiner] and turn it back on. They are the only VHF TV on the tower so maybe there is no combiner.

 

April 22, 2019 1:55 pm  #10


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

RadioActive wrote:

According to the Rabbit Ears site, WUTV is moving from 14 to 36; WPXJ will migrate from 23 to 24; WNED will depart 43 over to 31; and WKBW will relocate from 38 to 34. You can check out the rest by going to market #54 here. (Toronto and Hamilton are listed together as 901.)

By the way, I've tried repeatedly to scan channel 8 just to see if there was any early CFTO testing there. (There's usually a dual illumination for a while before the original is turned off for good.) So far, nothing. But I expect it will turn up there soon. April 28 is next week!

I don't think you'll see dual illumination, simply because 8 and 9 are adjacent channels and running both at once would require some expensive (and bulky) combiners and filters to get them both on the air into the same antenna at CN. You might see 9 go off and 8 come on for some overnight testing at some point. 

As for Buffalo, remember that there's a pending application from Sinclair and Nexstar to swap repack channels in Buffalo. WUTV would go from 14 to 32, remaining on Grand Island using what's presently the WNLO/WIVB shared channel. WNLO/WIVB would go from 32 on Grand Island to 36, moving back to the old WIVB site in Colden. 

I don't see any reason why that application won't be granted. (The two companies wouldn't have filed it if they weren't fairly certain of approval.)
 

Last edited by fybush (April 22, 2019 2:47 pm)

 

April 23, 2019 12:06 pm  #11


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

It was off the air last night after midnight.  By the way, what are the usual things that have to be done to move the transmitter to another channel from a technical aspect?

Last edited by markow202 (April 23, 2019 12:49 pm)

 

April 23, 2019 6:50 pm  #12


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Here is Bell's article on the move. Three stations are affected. 
https://www.bellmedia.ca/the-lede/press/upcoming-signal-frequency-changes-impact-viewer-access-to-ctv-toronto-ctv2-victoria-and-ctv-windsor-april-29-2019/
Odd that they make no mention of the channels they are moving to. Guess viewers are on their own.


 

 

April 23, 2019 9:34 pm  #13


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

With CFTO moving to RF channel 8, can anyone confirm if the analogue channel 8 signal from former CKNX in Wingham been shut off? They were rebroadcasting the CFPL London feed for many years.

 

April 23, 2019 9:44 pm  #14


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

andysradio wrote:

Here is Bell's article on the move. Three stations are affected. 
https://www.bellmedia.ca/the-lede/press/upcoming-signal-frequency-changes-impact-viewer-access-to-ctv-toronto-ctv2-victoria-and-ctv-windsor-april-29-2019/
Odd that they make no mention of the channels they are moving to. Guess viewers are on their own.


 

Viewers don't need to know. It will still display as 9.1 after a re-scan.


 
 

April 23, 2019 9:46 pm  #15


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

markow202 wrote:

It was off the air last night after midnight.  By the way, what are the usual things that have to be done to move the transmitter to another channel from a technical aspect?

It depends. If an antenna is designed to operate properly only on a single channel, the entire antenna may have to be replaced. We'll be doing that here in Rochester at WXXI when we move from 16 to 22 later this year - our antenna was specifically designed just for 16, so we'll get a new antenna that will have to be placed atop our tower by a Very Big Crane late one night. I think WHAM will also have to replace its antenna to go from 13 to 9, but I could be wrong about that. WROC has a broadband panel antenna that will apparently be able to handle its new channel, 21, about as well as it performs now on 45. 

Some transmitters are frequency-agile - you go into the menu and change the output channel on the exciter and away you go. Others are more complicated and need internal changes to some components. 

The filtering between the transmitter and the antenna is usually channel-specific and also has to be replaced. 

I honestly don't know enough about the design of the high-VHF antenna on the CN Tower to know what CFTO needs to do. As far as I know, CFTO on 9 is the only high-V channel that has ever operated from CN. 

In a typical modern multi-user broadcast site (think 1 World Trade Center in NYC), you'd install a broadband antenna as a matter of course - whatever happens in repacks and whatever tenants want to rent space, you'd have an antenna that can span from 7 to 13 and then another that can cover all of the remaining UHF band from 14 to 36, with combiners feeding both as needed. But CN is a very early example of the genre and I suspect that the VHF stuff there, at least, was specific to channels 5 and 9. 


 

 

April 24, 2019 12:51 pm  #16


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

fybush wrote:

markow202 wrote:

It was off the air last night after midnight.  By the way, what are the usual things that have to be done to move the transmitter to another channel from a technical aspect?

It depends. If an antenna is designed to operate properly only on a single channel, the entire antenna may have to be replaced. We'll be doing that here in Rochester at WXXI when we move from 16 to 22 later this year - our antenna was specifically designed just for 16, so we'll get a new antenna that will have to be placed atop our tower by a Very Big Crane late one night. I think WHAM will also have to replace its antenna to go from 13 to 9, but I could be wrong about that. WROC has a broadband panel antenna that will apparently be able to handle its new channel, 21, about as well as it performs now on 45. 

Some transmitters are frequency-agile - you go into the menu and change the output channel on the exciter and away you go. Others are more complicated and need internal changes to some components. 

The filtering between the transmitter and the antenna is usually channel-specific and also has to be replaced. 

I honestly don't know enough about the design of the high-VHF antenna on the CN Tower to know what CFTO needs to do. As far as I know, CFTO on 9 is the only high-V channel that has ever operated from CN. 

In a typical modern multi-user broadcast site (think 1 World Trade Center in NYC), you'd install a broadband antenna as a matter of course - whatever happens in repacks and whatever tenants want to rent space, you'd have an antenna that can span from 7 to 13 and then another that can cover all of the remaining UHF band from 14 to 36, with combiners feeding both as needed. But CN is a very early example of the genre and I suspect that the VHF stuff there, at least, was specific to channels 5 and 9. 


 

Thank you fybush for that explanation in detail!  We shall see... I always heard of the CN antennas being broadband and changing the antenna could be quite a mission if needed. 
 

 

April 24, 2019 12:56 pm  #17


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Not sure about the TV stuff, but here's an old blurb from 1975 about what the radio stations were doing for antennas (antennae?) on the then-brand new CN Tower. (Note the reference to "CFRB-FM.")

http://i68.tinypic.com/apkb39.jpg

     Thread Starter
 

April 24, 2019 2:05 pm  #18


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Lets hope there is no fire. 

 

April 24, 2019 2:23 pm  #19


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Q107 was the station not using a Collins transmitter. They opted instead for AEL.

If I recall, the broadcast facilities on the CN Tower were turned up on a staggered schedule over the spring of 1976. Q107 would launch a year later. A decade later CJEZ would join the Master FM combiner there. I'm also fairly certain that CJBC (90.3) launched from the CN Tower but eventually relocated to FCP.

Anyway... Needless to say, the dramatic improvement in coverage for the TV and FM stations on the CN Tower didn't go unnoticed and was well documented. The Globe's Blake Kirby did weeks of drive testing comparing the before and after.

Many of the pre-CN Tower transmitter sites were not ideal (to put it mildly). CHFI and CKFM gained the least from the move. CHUM-FM, on the other hand, was on the Manulife building on Bloor East. The move to the CN Tower resulted in staggering coverage improvements. Similar for CBL FM which was formerly on the CBC owned tower on Jarvis Street.

Last edited by Tim Brown 2016 (April 24, 2019 2:24 pm)

 

April 24, 2019 2:56 pm  #20


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Here's an angle on the CN Tower that I never really thought of before, until I came across this article in an old issue of Broadcasting Magazine from Sept. 1975 - the effect it would have on the Buffalo market in those early-to-pre-cable days. 

It's a moot point now, of course, thanks to cable and simsub and the loss of antennas. But the irony isn't lost on anyone. As the CRTC became obsessed with keeping Canadians tuned to our local broadcasters, TV stations in the Queen City were worried Americans would be looking at our channels over theirs. 

http://i65.tinypic.com/21ljw3r.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/6fxf03.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/t0k9kn.jpg

     Thread Starter
 

April 24, 2019 5:17 pm  #21


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Great articles!  The CN tower always facinated me - not only in its engineering, but its height and design.  Its not everyday a tv/FM tower is also a tourist attraction.  

 

April 24, 2019 5:46 pm  #22


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

I posted this a long time ago, but you might be interested in it, if you never saw it. It was an article out of a 1976 TV Guide about the CN Tower and it what it would mean to Toronto viewers.

You can find it here. 

     Thread Starter
 

April 24, 2019 6:22 pm  #23


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

[url=https://www.americanradiohistory.com/CANADA/Archive-Broadcast-Technology/1975%2012-00%20-%20BET.pdf]https://www.americanradiohistory.com/CANADA/Archive-Broadcast-Technology/1975%2012-00%20-%20BET.pdf

T[/url]his pretty much sums it all up.  Channel 9 is explained on page 5 and CFTO transmissions a few pages below in an in-depth summary for all transmissions on the CN Tower at the time of build.

Channel 9 is in between two hola-hoop dampners and mentions that this antenna is sensitive to vortex forces.

Last edited by markow202 (April 24, 2019 6:23 pm)

 

April 29, 2019 12:12 am  #24


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

It's about 12:10 AM on April 29, and CFTO's old signal  is still there, despite numerous on-air crawls warning the plug would be pulled at midnight. There's nothing at the moment on channel 8, so it will be interesting to see when they turn off the old and when my tuner will detect the new signal.

I would love to know how many people in the GTA actually watch their off-air signal and despite the endless warnings, how many bewildered viewers will call wondering what happened. Glad I'm not on their switchboard on Monday!

     Thread Starter
 

April 29, 2019 12:57 am  #25


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/dontcare.gif

 

April 29, 2019 1:06 am  #26


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

1:04 am,  looks like VHF  RF 9 is down...    ooohhhh  it's  excititing!!!!

1:08 am,  still no lock on VHF RF 8.....

 

Last edited by Glen Warren (April 29, 2019 1:08 am)

 

April 29, 2019 7:33 am  #27


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

CFTO on ch. 8. Seen in Peterborough this morning (Apr. 29) at 6:30 AM

Last edited by andysradio (April 29, 2019 8:11 am)

 

April 29, 2019 11:57 am  #28


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Tuned it in successfully in the morning. Interesting that my off-air DVR located it and deleted the old channel, but both my TVs still recognize the old 9.1 on Channel 9 and I have to adjust the set to deliberately skip it in channel surfing mode. 

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April 29, 2019 2:28 pm  #29


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

Mine shows up as 9-1 but I assume thats just the virtual channel. 

 

May 1, 2019 4:02 pm  #30


Re: CFTO Airs Channel 9 Rescan Warning For Antenna Users

This repack is going to be a pain as both my OTA HDTV tuners do not include something dead simple and sensible which my old TV did (before it fell and smashed - sad story for another day) - the ability to add channels other than holus bolus with a total rescan.

I wanted to watch CFTO last night so I had to bite the bullet on an overcast night and now I have lost WGRZ and WKBW and probably a few more of the Buffalo and Hamilton stations. I will have to keep trying until the perfect night when everything coalesces in the sky. And by then something else will be about to relocate I bet.

I should have checked the UI before I bought the TV or I might have kept shopping. But because my first ever HDTV had the feature, it never occurred to me that others would not so I did not check.