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September 23, 2020 9:59 pm  #31


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

ok Radiowiz thanks for letting me know about what came up on Google for Oldies 96.7.

Re the Grand. They are under the same ownership as CKDO and I checked the CKDO web site for a playlist and six of the last songs played were listed. One from the 1960's, 1 from the 80's and four from the 70's so at least they play the 1960's. One song was actually from 1970 and so it's almost 1 and half songs out of six from the 60's.


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September 23, 2020 10:14 pm  #32


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

paterson1 wrote:

K106.5 Owen Sound had an Americana format in the 90's.  It was a mix of acoustic rock, folk and country.  They had this unique sound for about 5 or 6 years and it was fairly popular.  Bayshore applied for a country station and when this signed on K106 moved to an A/C format.  Some of the folk and roots music moved to oldies 560.

Bayshore's Shelburne station has a bluegrass show and a classic country saturday night...all between 6-11p.  I've only listened once or twice, not my thing, but sounds decent.

https://www.country105.ca/shows/
 

 

September 23, 2020 11:03 pm  #33


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

RadioActive wrote:

I was looking at Buffalo radio ratings for August 2020 and noticed that WYRK, the country station at 106.5 FM (now buried by Elmnt FM in the GTA) is number one - again. It's been the solid leader in the market for a long time, which continues to surprise me because I never really thought of the Queen City as a country kind of place.

How about America as a "Country kind of place"?  
On AGT tonight Broken Roots came in second! 
It's not first, but it sure is amazing to see Country music do so well on AGT in the first place. 

 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

September 24, 2020 12:34 am  #34


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

paterson1 wrote:

The term "oldies" seems to be coming back a little in radio now, however it doesn't mean 50's and very little 60's music anymore.  I agree Boom and to a certain extent 740 would be Toronto's oldies stations.  Mike Cooper's "Coop's Classics" is excellent on CHFI on Saturday evenings, from 6 to midnight and he plays no where near 35% cancon.

As was pointed out in an earlier thread, CISS FM (KISS) actually did quite well in the ratings in Toronto when they first signed on as a country outlet. The format changed after Rogers purchased the station did it not?  Rogers has a few country stations but not that many.  

Call me crazy, but what Corus should do is dump CFNY's format which hasn't been going anywhere for years and flip to a modern country format.  They have the resources to promote the hell out of it and ratings will absolutely go up. It would give Toronto a badly needed shake up in radio.  And it could give Q a bit of a shot as well, and help keep them with their great ratings. It would also give Q a chance to play a little current rock if they so desired!

Another option would be to sell 102.1 to the Pattison Group from the west and possibly they would flip the station to country.  This format will never be number one in Toronto but the GTA certainly can support a country outlet .And like CISS I think the ratings would surprise a lot of people with a fairly young demo. 

Calgary has two country outlets with CKRY #3 with a 8.6 share, 8.7 a year ago and Wild 95.3 #11 in the market with 4.5 share most recent and 4.1 last summer.  Calgary also has an "oldies" station with XL 103 but alas they seem to be more Boom type of format at #4 right behind CKRY.

Edmonton has two country stations at #6 and #7 with CISN and CFCW-AM.  Interesting that  in Calgary and Edmonton CBC Radio One comes in with the highest ratings.

Jim Pattison Group mainly runs their business in western Canada, so the chance of them scrambling for a piece of action in the Toronto radio market would be very dim. In addition I'm certain that Corus Radio won't give up their valuable 102.1 frequency on the CN Tower. If Corus decided to pull the format of Edge, the biggest winner obviously will be Indie 88, as from the Numeris summer report they're quite close in ratings, with Edge slightly edging out Indie in terms of both shares and daily cume. They undoubtedly won't risk giving up alternative format for a country station.

When it comes to the country format in both Canada and US, medium and small sized markets tend to embrace country music than other genres, so it's not a surprise that country format performs well in Calgary, Edmonton and Buffalo. Country formats do exist in big markets like New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, yet stations in respective markets: NY Country 94.7, Go Country 105 and US 99 are usually ranked around 15 to 20. 

Of course there are choices for country music fans in GTA, with KX 94.7 & KX 96 covering west side and east side of the metro. It's just that out of market stations are usually not count in the Toronto book, doesn't necessarily mean that they perform bad in the market.

 

September 24, 2020 5:53 am  #35


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Good point about the KX stations covering most of Toronto and don't they use a promo that says "The GTA's Country station." In my recent DX blitz I heard a lot of country stations. Many "Froggy's" in the US.

The reason I can't listen to classic hits formats for long is b/c by the late 70's and 80's most of the hits sounded too corporate and mainstream. There were exceptions of course but on the whole drab. What used to be called modern rock and I guess now is called classic alternative was an exception and I liked the guitar orientated groups like REM or Dream Syndicate more than the synth and dance. Preferred Joy Division to New Order but I'd take New Order over the corporate stuff. Ska was a nice but you never hear The Specials on Classic Hits. I am thinking Maie Pauts on Boom would love to be able to play something like Internatinal Jet Set by the Specials or a song by Selector but the best she may be able to do is play Our House by Madness who at least started as a Ska group.

Oldies from the mid 60's to mid 70's have less of that homogenized sound. I tend to think of it in terms of a group like Fleetwood Mac who had at least three distinct periods from the 60's to the Buckingham Nicks era and I prefer them before Buckingham Nicks. Perhaps an even better example would be the transition from Jefferson Airplane to Jefferson Starship to Starship. Loved the Airplane, early Jefferson Starship was ok  and in fact the very first album released under the name Jefferson Starship called Blows Against The Empire is a classic but by the time of Starship, it was time to tune out and so it is mostly with classic hits. 

Mostly comes down to business reality and so I will link that RPM article from 1977 again which had a piece on David Pritchard's time at CFGM and also something by David Marsden where he spoke about business reality which was already entreched by then. Page 4. I wonder if he feels the same now:

RPM 1977

Last edited by Fitz (September 24, 2020 8:30 am)


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September 24, 2020 10:20 am  #36


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Adrian106072 wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

The term "oldies" seems to be coming back a little in radio now, however it doesn't mean 50's and very little 60's music anymore.  I agree Boom and to a certain extent 740 would be Toronto's oldies stations.  Mike Cooper's "Coop's Classics" is excellent on CHFI on Saturday evenings, from 6 to midnight and he plays no where near 35% cancon.

As was pointed out in an earlier thread, CISS FM (KISS) actually did quite well in the ratings in Toronto when they first signed on as a country outlet. The format changed after Rogers purchased the station did it not?  Rogers has a few country stations but not that many.  

Call me crazy, but what Corus should do is dump CFNY's format which hasn't been going anywhere for years and flip to a modern country format.  They have the resources to promote the hell out of it and ratings will absolutely go up. It would give Toronto a badly needed shake up in radio.  And it could give Q a bit of a shot as well, and help keep them with their great ratings. It would also give Q a chance to play a little current rock if they so desired!

Another option would be to sell 102.1 to the Pattison Group from the west and possibly they would flip the station to country.  This format will never be number one in Toronto but the GTA certainly can support a country outlet .And like CISS I think the ratings would surprise a lot of people with a fairly young demo. 

Calgary has two country outlets with CKRY #3 with a 8.6 share, 8.7 a year ago and Wild 95.3 #11 in the market with 4.5 share most recent and 4.1 last summer.  Calgary also has an "oldies" station with XL 103 but alas they seem to be more Boom type of format at #4 right behind CKRY.

Edmonton has two country stations at #6 and #7 with CISN and CFCW-AM.  Interesting that  in Calgary and Edmonton CBC Radio One comes in with the highest ratings.

Jim Pattison Group mainly runs their business in western Canada, so the chance of them scrambling for a piece of action in the Toronto radio market would be very dim. In addition I'm certain that Corus Radio won't give up their valuable 102.1 frequency on the CN Tower. If Corus decided to pull the format of Edge, the biggest winner obviously will be Indie 88, as from the Numeris summer report they're quite close in ratings, with Edge slightly edging out Indie in terms of both shares and daily cume. They undoubtedly won't risk giving up alternative format for a country station.

When it comes to the country format in both Canada and US, medium and small sized markets tend to embrace country music than other genres, so it's not a surprise that country format performs well in Calgary, Edmonton and Buffalo. Country formats do exist in big markets like New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, yet stations in respective markets: NY Country 94.7, Go Country 105 and US 99 are usually ranked around 15 to 20. 

Of course there are choices for country music fans in GTA, with KX 94.7 & KX 96 covering west side and east side of the metro. It's just that out of market stations are usually not count in the Toronto book, doesn't necessarily mean that they perform bad in the market.

The only reason I mentioned Corus and CFNY was because Corus had put themselves up for sale months ago and since no prospective buyer has surfaced so far, possibly they would sell off the company in pieces.

True Pattison is based in Western Canada, however corporately they do  business in Ontario with ownership of the Ripley's Aquarium downtown, Great Wolf Lodge and various attractions at Niagara Falls. I have always wondered if they were interested in expanding their successful broadcasting division in the east. I hope they do at some point since their stations sound great and it would give eastern broadcasters another competitor to sharpen them up.

Absolutely correct that indie 88.1 would benefit the most from a format change with CFNY.  But it also shows how the edge has slid over the years now that indie 88.1 is close to overtaking them.

As the only country outlet covering all of the GTA and the Golden Horse from the CN Tower, 102.1 would likely have a nice bump in ratings.  And with CFNY no longer competing with Q107 for a somewhat similar audience, a small portion of listeners would move to Q and as I mentioned would also open up the possibility of Q 107 playing a little current rock or newer rock if they chose to.

 

September 24, 2020 10:41 am  #37


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Demographics in Toronto is why Country and Oldies won't be a huge win..    Unlike some cities in Canada, where the demographics are mainly caucasian, you would be hard to get the same results in Toronto, where non-caucasian listeners out weigh the market.    Country and oldies are very caucasian based audiences.   Oldies as well has majority in the 65+ range, which clients who pay the bills tend not to be as large in numbers.    Zoomer Radio works because there is not many hitting that demographic but split that market, you would find not much money left.

KX is likely in the best spot, with stations on both sides of downtown and  repeater in the core.   Oddly I don't see amazing numbers that would convince anyone to flip a stronger signal based in Toronto. The demographics just are not there.   Could someone make more money thay they are currently doing Country?   Perhaps. 

Last edited by radiokid (September 24, 2020 10:42 am)

 

September 24, 2020 10:42 am  #38


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Call me an old fogey but modern country isn't country music at all.  It's all beat box with no fiddles or steel guitars and sound more like 80's rap than anything country.  I can't stand it.

When CISS first started testing, I remember they actually played a mash-up of both Dolly Parton's and Whitney Houston's I will always love you.  Two great versions, but they should never be mashed together.

When CISS went live, they did two things that annoyed me:

1.  They edited every song to fit within 2-3 minutes.

2.  They removed any steel or fiddle solos from songs.  Part of this might be for time but I remember the station getting a lot of flack for refusing to play Garth Brooks' "Long Necked Bottle" because it sounded "too country". 

But at least "New Country" back in the 90s had a sound that country traditionalists could latch onto.  Today's stuff is just plain not country.
  

 

September 24, 2020 11:00 am  #39


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

I must admit.  After all my years in radio I have never heard the term, "hobbyists" radio stations.  No in fact i was referring to REAL radio stations just like we have in Toronto and I by the word diversity?  I travel mostly in Mississippi and Louisiana.  That's where you can hear all BLUES stations, Classic country, R&B, Cajun, too many to mention.  I realize it has a lot to do with the geography.  Also in the Carmel area of California and also that of the Sonoma valley.
 

Last edited by John D (September 24, 2020 11:01 am)

 

September 24, 2020 11:51 am  #40


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Peter the K wrote:

[CISS-FM] removed any steel or fiddle solos from songs.  Part of this might be for time but I remember the station getting a lot of flack for refusing to play Garth Brooks' "Long Necked Bottle" because it sounded "too country".  

And yet, Bryan Adams, The Barenaked Ladies, Rod Stewart and Sting were "new country" enough for them. 

I remember one publication referring to them as a "country-lite" station.  https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/smile.png




PJ
 


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September 24, 2020 1:07 pm  #41


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Radio111 wrote:

I miss Bill Gable. What a talent!

One of the best I’ve ever heard.  And his incredible talent was surpassed only by his kindness and decency.
 


- Chris Mayberry
 

September 24, 2020 8:22 pm  #42


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

radiokid wrote:

Demographics in Toronto is why Country and Oldies won't be a huge win..    Unlike some cities in Canada, where the demographics are mainly caucasian, you would be hard to get the same results in Toronto, where non-caucasian listeners out weigh the market.    Country and oldies are very caucasian based audiences.   Oldies as well has majority in the 65+ range, which clients who pay the bills tend not to be as large in numbers.    Zoomer Radio works because there is not many hitting that demographic but split that market, you would find not much money left.

KX is likely in the best spot, with stations on both sides of downtown and  repeater in the core.   Oddly I don't see amazing numbers that would convince anyone to flip a stronger signal based in Toronto. The demographics just are not there.   Could someone make more money thay they are currently doing Country?   Perhaps. 

Yes country will never be a huge win for ratings, but it doesn't really need to be. Country will never  be number one but could be in the top 10 and have the market to themselves in Toronto.    The demographics might not be as huge a factor as we might think, only because of the size of the GTA and Golden Horseshoe.  And best of all country music fans are radio listeners and listen for long periods.
 
This part of Ontario has a lot of every kind of people, you name the age group, ethnic background, income etc. and the numbers are all substantial.  Toronto and the GTA should in theory be able to support almost any format because of the sheer population numbers of every group.

Why can't Toronto support and have a successful urban music station? The numbers and demographics are there. Why does Flow seem to flounder and constantly tweaking it's format and going in circles?  Are they going to be an urban station that plays a lot of top 40 or throwbacks, yet again?  Lack of direction, promotion, trying to be something they aren't?  Why is the morning show out of NYC?   How does this solidify and promote their image in the GTA?  

Toronto is blessed to be the home of two of the biggest and popular urban performers in the world with Drake and the Weeknd.  Just as important, maybe more, home to a lot of new artists that are getting noticed in the US and parts of Europe.

Sadly, these new local talents get virtually no airplay in their hometown.  Why is that?   Flow should be all over this, front and centre playing these new artists over and over, lots of interviews, and be happy and proud that they come from Toronto.   Don't get the feeling this is happening much and it shows in the ratings.  Flow listeners, am I off base here?

The same argument with country music.  Why does Canada's largest and richest city and radio market have no country radio?  I never listened to CISS, but it sounds by the comments above they were only a half hearted in their commitment to this format. You can't do that with either urban or country radio, you need to be all in, and love that this is what you and your station is doing. I think the audience is there and they are waiting...  

I don't necessarily buy the argument that different ethnic groups won't embrace country, and I am talking current new country. Most won't but some will.    It all comes down to how it is promoted and marketed, and it will be the second generation of any group that would be more open.

Almost like kids hockey in larger communities, the ethnic mix now as compared to 30 years ago is fairly dramatic.  I saw a kids hockey team in Mississauga last year, only two kids on the team were white.

Anyway, that's my take.  In terms of oldies, Toronto has a lot of stations that play a lot of gold and this makes it hard for full time traditional oldies (50's-80's).  A community type station could do this or low power outlet, one that doesn't concern themselves with ratings and doesn't need a lot of revenue to keep the lights on. 

 

September 24, 2020 11:49 pm  #43


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Paul Jeffries wrote:

Peter the K wrote:

[CISS-FM] removed any steel or fiddle solos from songs.  Part of this might be for time but I remember the station getting a lot of flack for refusing to play Garth Brooks' "Long Necked Bottle" because it sounded "too country".  

And yet, Bryan Adams, The Barenaked Ladies, Rod Stewart and Sting were "new country" enough for them. 

I remember one publication referring to them as a "country-lite" station.

I always got the feeling CISS's target was CHFI.
 

 

September 25, 2020 12:09 am  #44


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

paterson1 wrote:

Toronto is blessed to be the home of two of the biggest and popular urban performers in the world with Drake and the Weeknd.  Just as important, maybe more, home to a lot of new artists that are getting noticed in the US and parts of Europe.

Sadly, these new local talents get virtually no airplay in their hometown.  Why is that?   Flow should be all over this, front and centre playing these new artists over and over, lots of interviews, and be happy and proud that they come from Toronto.   Don't get the feeling this is happening much and it shows in the ratings.  Flow listeners, am I off base here?

Home run.
 

Last edited by mike marshall (September 25, 2020 12:17 am)

 

September 25, 2020 3:05 am  #45


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

paterson1 wrote:

radiokid wrote:

Demographics in Toronto is why Country and Oldies won't be a huge win..    Unlike some cities in Canada, where the demographics are mainly caucasian, you would be hard to get the same results in Toronto, where non-caucasian listeners out weigh the market.    Country and oldies are very caucasian based audiences.   Oldies as well has majority in the 65+ range, which clients who pay the bills tend not to be as large in numbers.    Zoomer Radio works because there is not many hitting that demographic but split that market, you would find not much money left.

KX is likely in the best spot, with stations on both sides of downtown and  repeater in the core.   Oddly I don't see amazing numbers that would convince anyone to flip a stronger signal based in Toronto. The demographics just are not there.   Could someone make more money thay they are currently doing Country?   Perhaps. 

Yes country will never be a huge win for ratings, but it doesn't really need to be. Country will never  be number one but could be in the top 10 and have the market to themselves in Toronto.    The demographics might not be as huge a factor as we might think, only because of the size of the GTA and Golden Horseshoe.  And best of all country music fans are radio listeners and listen for long periods.
 
This part of Ontario has a lot of every kind of people, you name the age group, ethnic background, income etc. and the numbers are all substantial.  Toronto and the GTA should in theory be able to support almost any format because of the sheer population numbers of every group.

Why can't Toronto support and have a successful urban music station? The numbers and demographics are there. Why does Flow seem to flounder and constantly tweaking it's format and going in circles?  Are they going to be an urban station that plays a lot of top 40 or throwbacks, yet again?  Lack of direction, promotion, trying to be something they aren't?  Why is the morning show out of NYC?   How does this solidify and promote their image in the GTA?  

Toronto is blessed to be the home of two of the biggest and popular urban performers in the world with Drake and the Weeknd.  Just as important, maybe more, home to a lot of new artists that are getting noticed in the US and parts of Europe.

Sadly, these new local talents get virtually no airplay in their hometown.  Why is that?   Flow should be all over this, front and centre playing these new artists over and over, lots of interviews, and be happy and proud that they come from Toronto.   Don't get the feeling this is happening much and it shows in the ratings.  Flow listeners, am I off base here?

The same argument with country music.  Why does Canada's largest and richest city and radio market have no country radio?  I never listened to CISS, but it sounds by the comments above they were only a half hearted in their commitment to this format. You can't do that with either urban or country radio, you need to be all in, and love that this is what you and your station is doing. I think the audience is there and they are waiting...  

I don't necessarily buy the argument that different ethnic groups won't embrace country, and I am talking current new country. Most won't but some will.    It all comes down to how it is promoted and marketed, and it will be the second generation of any group that would be more open.

Almost like kids hockey in larger communities, the ethnic mix now as compared to 30 years ago is fairly dramatic.  I saw a kids hockey team in Mississauga last year, only two kids on the team were white.

Anyway, that's my take.  In terms of oldies, Toronto has a lot of stations that play a lot of gold and this makes it hard for full time traditional oldies (50's-80's).  A community type station could do this or low power outlet, one that doesn't concern themselves with ratings and doesn't need a lot of revenue to keep the lights on. 

Your argument against Flow is on point, and I'm feeling the same type of dissent that how Flow is unable to stick to its format for a long time. Just look at the Billboard Top 40 chart nowadays, almost half of the songs that are ranked at top 10 are hip hop tracks. The popularity of hip hop proves that Flow has the opportunity to attract a loyal fan base, yet the reason that they performed poor in the latest Summer ratings is not due to 'hip hop' music, it is indeed the failure in terms of programming and playlist. 

Obviously they think that "The Breakfast Club" is a hype in the States, hoping that bringing it to the North might attract audiences on Flow. However they forgot "The Breakfast Club" is indeed American-oriented. Especially in the pandemic era that we are all facing through, listeners obviously won't want to listen to contents that are not related to their place during morning hours. "The Breakfast Club" might be able to invite DaBaby and Rush Limbaugh, but it's just not the cup of tea that Toronto listeners exactly want. The only solution that they should adapt for now is replacing the show with real local talents that knows hip hop on weekdays, and if they really want to keep the American show just simulcast during the weekends, as what they have done before. If they stick to their current programming longer I cannot foresee any positive results in the future.

Another fatal mistake that they're committing is adding songs that aren't even considered hip hop at all in the regular rotation. Listening to "Havana" and "Growing Pains" on Flow are like having a Taylor Swift or Post Malone song on Boom, just imagine how horrible would that be. There are hundreds of hip hop songs that are trending in the States, additionally in Canada to satisfy their CanCon requirements, yet they decide to stay put with the same pop songs for half a year. If Flow bill themselves as a hip-hop station, just play relevant new and classic urban songs. Stingray is doing really well in terms of selecting a huge variety of music for Boom, if they can utilize such kind of method on Flow I'm sure it will be a success for them.

 

September 25, 2020 11:40 am  #46


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Because people in Toronto arent diverse when it comes to music.  However, speaking of oldies how come Boom 973 is doing well and now Q?  I understand they dont play Johnny Cash and Bobby Vinton but its still old stuff.

Its a shame country wont work but that always seemed to work outside the city.  People here love their Drake, Taylor Swift and Arianna Grande way too much and will stick to that sadly.  The city is all about whats "hip and cool"

 

September 25, 2020 12:27 pm  #47


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

markow202 wrote:

Because people in Toronto arent diverse when it comes to music.  However, speaking of oldies how come Boom 973 is doing well and now Q?  I understand they dont play Johnny Cash and Bobby Vinton but its still old stuff.

Its a shame country wont work but that always seemed to work outside the city.  People here love their Drake, Taylor Swift and Arianna Grande way too much and will stick to that sadly.  The city is all about whats "hip and cool"

"People in Toronto aren't diverse......They love their Drake, Taylor Swift and Arianna Grande"

No diversity in that music whatsoever.  

 

September 25, 2020 1:20 pm  #48


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

markow202 wrote:

Its a shame country wont work but that always seemed to work outside the city.  People here love their Drake, Taylor Swift and Arianna Grande way too much and will stick to that sadly.  The city is all about whats "hip and cool"

It's not about what works, it's about what works BETTER
Country music can work in the Toronto market, but perhaps not better than other formats currently present in Toronto.

Look at Ottawa. Two stations with very similar formats (BOB FM & BOOM) 
93.9 saw opportunity to step away from competing with Ottawa's Boom to gain better ratings with Country music.

Shortly after Bear became Jump,  Dawg saw an opportunity (as Rebel) to have better ratings with the Bear audience than what they had.
Long story short, there's no one individual radio station in the Toronto market willing to believe that their position in the ratings book would be better off with Country music. (at this time...?)
 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

September 27, 2020 1:32 pm  #49


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

Some say that the market's appetite for oldies is being satisfied by the likes of Roger Ashby (9 - noon this morning) and by Gene Stevens (2 - 4:00 this afternoon).   Stevens will be celebrating Jerry Lee Lewis 85th birthday; that's a lotta candles

geo

 

September 27, 2020 2:25 pm  #50


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

geo wrote:

Stevens will be celebrating Jerry Lee Lewis 85th birthday; that's a lotta candles

Goodness gracious great balls of fire!  
(sorry, I had to do it)
 

 

September 29, 2020 8:51 pm  #51


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

markow202 wrote:

Because people in Toronto arent diverse when it comes to music.  However, speaking of oldies how come Boom 973 is doing well and now Q?  I understand they dont play Johnny Cash and Bobby Vinton but its still old stuff.

The music is exactly old *enough*. It gets them into the upper-ends of 25-54, where you have much wider radio usage, without too much of the audience outside of the ad demos.

Then, the COVID situation helped. It's not that people are switching to Q en masse; but rather CHFI, CHUM, and company are losing tuning with offices being closed. Q and Boom come up the middle.
 


 
 

September 29, 2020 8:59 pm  #52


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

re: FLOW.

You can argue about music mixes and morning shows until you're blue in the face, but the absolute biggest impediment to their success it that their potential audience here does not listen to the radio. There's no real urban radio history in Toronto. Nobody's listening to the station their parents or big brother did, because there was no such thing. 

Why would an audience that's been neglected by radio suddenly use it?

Radio is still doing as well as it is based largely on momentum. There's no urban radio momentum in Toronto.


 
 

September 29, 2020 9:06 pm  #53


Re: Why Don't Country & Oldies Formats Really Work In Toronto?

John D wrote:

I must admit.  After all my years in radio I have never heard the term, "hobbyists" radio stations.  No in fact i was referring to REAL radio stations just like we have in Toronto and I by the word diversity?  I travel mostly in Mississippi and Louisiana.  That's where you can hear all BLUES stations, Classic country, R&B, Cajun, too many to mention.  I realize it has a lot to do with the geography.  Also in the Carmel area of California and also that of the Sonoma valley.
 

Many of those would be what I call "hobby" stations. That doesn't mean they're not "real."

It's far easier to get a license in the US. There are plenty of older folks who worked in commercial radio who own commercial stations running a format they love. In many cases they're the only employee and have some part-timers and volunteers as staff. These are stations you'd never propose as a business case if you didn't love the music. Most of them are in smaller markets too, where you sell ads not on ratings, but on relationships. 

The generally make just enough money to keep the lights on, and that's all they want.

To me, that's a hobby station.
 

Last edited by RadioAaron (September 29, 2020 9:06 pm)