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August 12, 2022 7:51 am  #31


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Another EV goes AM-less - even though previous models had the band "without issues."

2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Lineup To Ditch AM Radio

 

December 2, 2022 9:39 am  #32


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

You know it's going to be an issue when important politicians start taking up this cause. Most Canadians have never heard of Sen. Ed Markey, but I remember him from the days of the C-Band satellite wars and if I recall correctly, he was one of the few who stood up for dish owners back then. 

So when he begins making noise about the importance of keeping AM radio in electric vehicles, the manufacturers at least have to take notice. I don't think politicos can order vehicle makers to do anything - but he can make them think twice about eliminating the band altogether. 

So stay tuned to your AM radio. There may be more to come. 

Powerful Senator Tells Automakers AM Radio Must Stay

     Thread Starter
 

December 5, 2022 6:27 pm  #33


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

I had to laugh on Monday when John Oakley spent two segments asking listeners to call in about whether buying an electric vehicle is a good idea and worth the money, noting he was thinking of purchasing one.

Unfortunately, no one called in to say that a growing number of EVs do not come with an AM radio - meaning that, unless they knew about 640's HD signal or were going to stream it in their vehicle, he would effectively lose a large portion of his audience. Guess he wasn't aware of that!  

     Thread Starter
 

December 5, 2022 7:28 pm  #34


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Perhaps the EV push will motivate the FCC, ISED, and the Mexican authorities to think about a transition to a pure digital mode for the medium wave band.  I made a post several months ago about the lack of an end game for pure digital radio, in both the AM and FM bands.  A pure digital mode would permit a much relaxed D/U (desired to undesired) protection ratio, simplifying directional antennas, or in a lot of cases eliminating the need for them.
Pure digital in the AM band should have much better noise immunity.  But the regulators have to have the vision.  Richard Wiley, a former chairman of the FCC, became chairman of the Advanced Television Standards Committee, and by his insistence on development of a digital transmission mode (a very tall order at the time) propelled us into the HD world. To be sure, early demonstrations of MPEG-2 transmission could be appallingly bad because the encoding artifacts at the time were horrible. But the engineers persisted, and what we have today (if you use the full bit rate for a single program channel), is extremely good.
But there is no Richard Wiley pushing for pure digital in either the AM or FM band. Why? The big broadcasters don't want anything that might lead to a more level playing field for the smaller stations.

 

December 10, 2022 6:49 pm  #35


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

     Thread Starter
 

December 10, 2022 8:58 pm  #36


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Interesting that Hyundai has gone on record saying that they have no plans phasing out AM radio in their new models of cars and trucks. Seems to be mostly European car makers so far that are dropping or planning to drop AM in their electric vehicles.

A lot of car makers haven't been installing good AM tuners for some time now.   

 

December 10, 2022 11:39 pm  #37


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Shouldn't the makers of EVs be require to supress their RF emissions?

If I'm driving a conventional vehicle and listening to AM radio, the elctric vehicles driving near me or passing me will be interfering with my radio.

Last edited by turkeytop (December 10, 2022 11:40 pm)


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
 

December 11, 2022 12:37 am  #38


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

I'm not sure that the interference would be strong enough to do that, but I like one of the commenters in the Times article, who suggested that perhaps AM in EVs could be an option you could pay for if you wanted it. That seems like a possibility for those who want to buy an electric vehicle, but still want both bands.

     Thread Starter
 

December 11, 2022 1:09 am  #39


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

It may not have any effect on local AM reception. But if I'm here on London and listening to AM from Toronto or Windsor, there probably would be interference from EVs.

Last edited by turkeytop (December 11, 2022 8:56 pm)


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
 

December 11, 2022 6:45 pm  #40


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Skywave wrote:

Perhaps the EV push will motivate the FCC, ISED, and the Mexican authorities to think about a transition to a pure digital mode for the medium wave band.  I made a post several months ago about the lack of an end game for pure digital radio, in both the AM and FM bands.  A pure digital mode would permit a much relaxed D/U (desired to undesired) protection ratio, simplifying directional antennas, or in a lot of cases eliminating the need for them.
Pure digital in the AM band should have much better noise immunity.  But the regulators have to have the vision.  Richard Wiley, a former chairman of the FCC, became chairman of the Advanced Television Standards Committee, and by his insistence on development of a digital transmission mode (a very tall order at the time) propelled us into the HD world. To be sure, early demonstrations of MPEG-2 transmission could be appallingly bad because the encoding artifacts at the time were horrible. But the engineers persisted, and what we have today (if you use the full bit rate for a single program channel), is extremely good.
But there is no Richard Wiley pushing for pure digital in either the AM or FM band. Why? The big broadcasters don't want anything that might lead to a more level playing field for the smaller stations.

Pure digital, especially for AM, is a non-starter from a demand perspective. Anything that requires a hard switchover cannot work. Stations can't survive the massive sudden drop in listenership that would happen in the short term. In the long term, there's more than enough space on FM for what will be viable in traditional analog broadcasting, and the standard for digital distribution (streaming) is fully established.

Last edited by RadioAaron (December 11, 2022 6:48 pm)

 

December 15, 2022 10:35 am  #41


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

We talked about it here long before most places, but when the New York Times recently took up the question about the future of AM radio in electric vehicles, I started seeing stories from all over the U.S. and Canada about the issue popping up in my news feeds. Now Corus columnist Alan Cross is the latest to take up the controversy, explaining why - even though he's primarily on FM these days - he doesn't want to see the band disappear. 

More woe for the future of AM radio. How long will it survive? The clock may be ticking.

     Thread Starter
 

January 10, 2023 8:19 am  #42


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Another new article about the fate of AM radio brings up a new question - anyone who visits these pages knows the band is still around. But a consultant fears the average consumer (and driver) thinks it disappeared years ago. And you can't really miss what you don't think is there. He also blames radio owners for letting it get to this point.  

"AM owners are grabbing available low-power FM signals to get the signal out — and then they promote their FM, not the AM. We’re even seeing major groups with 50,000-watt signals start broadcasting their programming on FM. Are they wholesaling their AMs? 

Are automakers at fault here? I don’t believe so. I feel that the broadcasting industry is the culprit."


Some Serious Questions About AM Radio 

     Thread Starter
 

January 30, 2023 6:46 pm  #43


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

Turns out, it is possible to have AM in an EV, as the pictures prove. Although this very brief article doesn't say very much about how the signals come in. 

Hey! It’s Got AM!

     Thread Starter
 

February 1, 2023 12:32 pm  #44


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

A broadcast veteran (who I believe once worked as PD/show host for WBUF-FM in Buffalo) argues for the value of AM - and how the band has sabotaged itself over the years.

"Growing up in New York State, on one of the great lakes I could hear radio from Buffalo, Toronto, Syracuse and, of course, my hometown of Rochester. Here in Southern California, I can’t even hear many of the local stations in my house due to fluorescent lights, TV interference and computer monitor interference...

"I’m not for mandating a lot of things, but in my early radio days “The Commission” [FCC] was the office to be feared. Today, it’s a joke. If AM goes away, the FM band will be even more crowded. They’ve created interference rules which haven’t been enforced in decades and that is one of the reasons AM is so tough to...listen to." 


Save AM, Fight RF Interference Now

     Thread Starter
 

February 9, 2023 1:14 am  #45


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

An interesting letter to consider from a Radio World reader.

My Electric Vehicle Picks Up AM Just Fine

     Thread Starter
 

March 21, 2023 7:22 am  #46


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

An unusual moment on CFRB's morning show Tuesday. John Moore was talking to tech analyst Carmi Levy about the end of AM radio in some cars, when his guest told a scary story. 

He said he was in a vehicle way up north that did not have an AM radio in it (he didn't say what he was driving, but since this was a few years ago, I'm going to assume it was a Tesla) when there was a tornado warning. He says he was in an area where there weren't a lot of FM signals and he missed the alert.

Levy believes if he'd had access to AM, he might have heard it and taken appropriate shelter because the signals travel farther and he would have been listening. So he feels it's vital to keep the band alive in all cars. 

But it's what's came next that really surprised me. Moore ended the segment by noting many have asked why CFRB doesn't move to FM. He then stated he was sure someone would apply for the 1010 frequency if that ever happened, because there's money to be made. (Not that you'd know it by the last rating book!) 

But it's what he didn't say that was really revealing to me. He never once made a single reference to the fact that CFRB is available on FM, through its HD signal on 99.9. You'd think he might have at least plugged the option, but it was as though it didn't even exist. An opportunity to promote another way to listen and it would have been the perfect way to end the topic. 

I've noticed that neither 640 or RB ever even refers to HD anymore, after a heavy promotion a few years ago. It's clear Bell and Rogers have pretty much given up on the technology and they rarely if ever tell listeners it's there if they'd like to hear it. A shame and I guess they've decided to throw their entire weight into online streaming. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 22, 2023 10:41 am  #47


Re: The End of Terrestrial Radio? Electric Cars and AM Radio

RadioActive wrote:

He said he was in a vehicle way up north that did not have an AM radio in it (he didn't say what he was driving, but since this was a few years ago, I'm going to assume it was a Tesla) when there was a tornado warning. He says he was in an area where there weren't a lot of FM signals and he missed the alert.

Levy believes if he'd had access to AM, he might have heard it and taken appropriate shelter because the signals travel farther and he would have been listening. So he feels it's vital to keep the band alive in all cars. 

I can't make heads nor tails of this anecdote.

There weren't a "lot" of FM signals -- so there were some. Did they not broadcast the alert? There are almost no AM stations way up north. So while he may have been able to pull in a distant AM station had the car had the band, it wouldn't have had the alert anyway...being, well, distant.