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April 1, 2021 11:31 am  #1


Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Not to reignite the fire over CanCon here, but it's fascinating to note that no less an entity than the Canadian Association of Broadcasters is pleading with the CRTC to reduce Canadian content regs. from 35% to 25%, because the amount is hurting private radio. And I don't think this is an April Fool's story. 

From Broadcast Dialogue:

"The CAB’s key recommendations include a reduction of Cancon exhibition requirements from 35% to 25%; making French-language vocal music requirements more flexible; updating the MAPL system to reflect the importance of the Artist (“A”) by awarding two points, and changing the “P” for performance to reflect production by a Canadian; and eliminating all Category 3 music requirements for mainstream stations.

“Unfortunately, music content requirements at these levels are not helping record sales or touring revenues, nor are they helping radio stations build audiences and advertising, or allowing stations to reinvest those revenues into local programming. They are just driving listeners from private radio to unregulated platforms,” states the CAB."

"The CAB also proposes eliminating band restrictions by allowing AM stations to transition to FM, or be supported by additional FMs, under the same ownership, and permit simulcasting of AM stations on FM."
 

CAB calls for radio Cancon reduction, common ownership changes   

 

April 1, 2021 6:40 pm  #2


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

The CAB is entirely correct here (in my view). I would bet every dollar I have that at least half of the mainstream popular music that is played on Canadian radio is ONLY done so to satisfy CanCon requirements.. meaning it does not perform well in their market research at all. This is long overdue with the advent of the internet and streaming.. artists will be (and already are) discovered elsewhere. 

Additionally.. AMs on FM is the only way to see any significant and meaningful increase of younger listeners to AM formats. Some new cars don't even have AM radio. FM translators or simulcasts would help, no doubt. 

 

April 1, 2021 6:53 pm  #3


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

From Day One, I thought the Can-Con level should have been 25 per cent. One out of every four songs. Less burn-out of familiar tunes but still high enough to boost Canadian artists in a significant way.

Last edited by Dale Patterson (April 1, 2021 6:54 pm)


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

April 1, 2021 8:48 pm  #4


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

I think the CAB could be making a mistake with wanting to allow more concentration of ownership of stations in towns and cities.  They are recommending for example that in radio markets of 8 or less stations that an individual could own or control up to 4 or half.  In markets with 16 or more stations that the same company could own 8 stations.

Wouldn't this open up the door for Bell, Stingray, Rogers, Corus etc. to own even more stations?   So in Toronto or Calgary Bell or Rogers could have 8 stations in each market. How would this be a good thing?  Has this been successful in the US where currently in large markets iHeart and Entercom can have 8 stations?  How does this serve the public better? 

The CAB talks about how the strength of radio is being  local. Local breaking news coverage from private radio is important to Canadians.  That's odd because the industry has been going the other way for years.  Many private stations have no local news, or any news for that matter.  And local content?  Oh yes, on the morning show.  

Also does the CAB  want to go on the rebroadcaster/translator route for AM, or am I misunderstanding this?   So let's jam up the FM frequencies with a bunch of 10 watt repeaters for 680 News, CHIN and Newstalk 1010.

In terms of cancon, don't think that the CAB was "pleading" for anything.  They were recommending a reduction, which is reasonable.  However wanting the A (artist) designation count as two points essentially makes anything that Drake, Beiber, Mendes, The Weeknd or any Canadian artists automatically count as cancon. This narrow criteria will guarantee even more airplay from these artists or any domestic talent that gets on the Billboard chart. 

I know they have something about new and emerging artists but I will believe it when I hear it. This will be the music they play at 11pm on Sunday.   What they really want is to play only Canadian artists that have US and international appeal or success.  And you will hear these artists even more than you do now, even at 25%.

The thing is, the CAB and private radio is kidding themselves since playing 35 or 25% cancon  will make no difference in revenues or ratings.  Just how MTV and Much Music eventually couldn't compete with video on demand and Youtube, radio can't compete with Spotify and all of the other music streaming services.   And they shouldn't even try because that battle has already been lost.  

 

 

April 1, 2021 8:56 pm  #5


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

paterson1 wrote:

Also does the CAB  want to go on the rebroadcaster/translator route for AM, or am I misunderstanding this?   So let's jam up the FM frequencies with a bunch of 10 watt repeaters for 680 News, CHIN and Newstalk 1010.
 

This would tie in, and they won't say it directly, with the ownership increase. So not a 10 watt repeater for 1010 or 680, but rather NewsTalk 96.3 and 88.1 News.


 
 

April 1, 2021 9:04 pm  #6


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

And you'll notice how quickly AM 740 began to put its weaker FM repeater at the front of its I.D. I suspect that's what would happen with any other FM signals - that is, if they could possibly find the room and a useable signal in the GTA, which I very much doubt. 

     Thread Starter
 

April 1, 2021 9:12 pm  #7


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

paterson1 wrote:

I think the CAB could be making a mistake with wanting to allow more concentration of ownership of stations in towns and cities.  They are recommending for example that in radio markets of 8 or less stations that an individual could own or control up to 4 or half.  In markets with 16 or more stations that the same company could own 8 stations.

Wouldn't this open up the door for Bell, Stingray, Rogers, Corus etc. to own even more stations?   So in Toronto or Calgary Bell or Rogers could have 8 stations in each market. How would this be a good thing?  Has this been successful in the US where currently in large markets iHeart and Entercom can have 8 stations?  How does this serve the public better?

Interesting you would say that, because this happened in the U.S. today. And it's not a good development. It's just what they don't need - more big companies owning every station in a market. And now newspapers, too. 

U.S. Supreme Court Justices uphold FCC's easing of local media ownership limits 

     Thread Starter
 

April 1, 2021 9:13 pm  #8


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

paterson1 wrote:

The thing is, the CAB and private radio is kidding themselves since playing 35 or 25% cancon  will make no difference in revenues or ratings.  Just how MTV and Much Music eventually couldn't compete with video on demand and Youtube, radio can't compete with Spotify and all of the other music streaming services.   And they shouldn't even try because that battle has already been lost.  
 

If this is true, what is the harm in letting them try?

Whether or not one industry (radio) should have to alter its product to support another industry (music) is purely philosophical, with no correct answer. But the reality is that it is not working, and not because there's some secret trove of amazing music that would be huge if only radio would play it. 

So, why not?


 
 

April 1, 2021 10:14 pm  #9


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

The thing is, the CAB and private radio is kidding themselves since playing 35 or 25% cancon  will make no difference in revenues or ratings.  Just how MTV and Much Music eventually couldn't compete with video on demand and Youtube, radio can't compete with Spotify and all of the other music streaming services.   And they shouldn't even try because that battle has already been lost.  
 

If this is true, what is the harm in letting them try?

Whether or not one industry (radio) should have to alter its product to support another industry (music) is purely philosophical, with no correct answer. But the reality is that it is not working, and not because there's some secret trove of amazing music that would be huge if only radio would play it. 

So, why not?

Cancon is not working?  How so?  Using record sales or what is streamed on Spotify as an example to show that the regs are too high or not working is not the best argument.  Spotify numbers are terribly inflated since a customer only needs to listen to 30 seconds of a song to be considered a full play.  So you could listen to bits and pieces of 60 songs and all would be counted as a full listen.  Besides the radio charts already don't reflect what is being streamed or chosen on Spotify anyway.  Streaming, music on demand services, offering 10, 20, 70 million tracks to choose from make the numbers and comparisons to radio not very valid.  People don't stream and listen to the radio for the same reasons or even with the same ears.

I am not against 25% cancon at all, not sure I agree with the proposed artist criteria counting as two parts since we will then hear even more from our international cancon artists.  Programmers tend not to bother with new music or artists until somebody else (Billboard) says so, even more so with Canadian music.   Will this bring back the days when stations won't play new Canadian artists because they don't need to or can't be bothered?   Or would any light rotation for new and emerging artists be corralled together into the late night graveyard? 

And you are right, and I have said before that the purpose of music radio stations is not to sell records for record companies or artists.  But by the same token, domestic artists shouldn't be ignored or treated differently by broadcasters just because they are Canadian.  And we don't need to have domestic songs or artists approved by another countries media or music publication to suddenly make a local artists song worthy of airplay.   

 

April 2, 2021 12:30 am  #10


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

CanCon should be 0%

 

April 2, 2021 12:58 am  #11


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

UnSub wrote:

CanCon should be 0%

No, because @ 0% why bother even having music directors at all? 92.5 can be a WKSE repeater, to name one station. (with local content thrown in when desired)

If this were at least ten years ago, I would argue that Can Con should be excused 100% only during special events.
Collingwood Ontario being one great example.
If a station wanted to go all Elvis all the time during the Elvis festival, that would be one fair reason for an exemption.
Unfortunately, my point went moot in recent years, since Elvis has not only left the building...he has unfortunately left the town!
(source: https://www.collingwood.ca/council-government/news-notices/elvis-fest-update )

Last edited by Radiowiz (April 2, 2021 1:06 am)


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

April 2, 2021 3:37 am  #12


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

While there are certain exceptions, for the most part CanCon doesn't test well, simple as that.  If the point of the exercise is to the benefit the public, then let the public decide.  This is the case in just about every music test, so in a way the public has spoken.  Just eliminate the archaic regulations including category 3.  It's all quite ridiculous.

 

April 2, 2021 12:57 pm  #13


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

UnSub wrote:

While there are certain exceptions, for the most part CanCon doesn't test well, simple as that.  If the point of the exercise is to the benefit the public, then let the public decide.  This is the case in just about every music test, so in a way the public has spoken.  Just eliminate the archaic regulations including category 3.  It's all quite ridiculous.

And how is cancon tested?  Testing music is a hard thing to do since people's tastes are all over the place.  Hasn't the public already decided when they tune in a radio station instead of streaming or listening to their own music?   If Canadian songs are never played on the radio, how is that serving the public?   If radio were really following what the pubic wants to hear, many formats and the music played would be radically different. 

I have never bought this "let the public or market decide" point of view.   Radio stations give people a lot of music and programming that many listeners don't like or want, not just cancon.  But that seems to be ok when it is the latest thing from the states or Europe.  However when cancon comes up, well that is another story.   All of a sudden it is wrong, poorly produced, people don't want to hear this,  the government is forcing crap on the air, and all this Canadian music is hurting us and we can't compete on a level playing field...etc..etc... All the tired lazy arguments we have heard for decades, and none of them very accurate.

In the recent CRTC survey people were told what the current regulations were, and the percent of cancon levels.  Most people indicated they were ok with cancon on radio and even 35%.  Only 11% indicated that they didn't support the cancon regulation and 13% wanted less Canadian music on the radio.   I know that was not what some radio people wanted to see but that is what the survey indicated.  So in fact the people in this large survey have spoken and did decide. 

What the survey really did say however is that cancon is not a big issue for the average listener, contrary to what some  like to think.  Maybe since it's been around for 50 years?  People also don't the want 35% increased but rather want a better variety of all music, better variety of artists and less repetition of all songs.

I agree that the regs should be modified, and stations given more flexibility.  Overall cancon on radio could be decreased.  I don't think the CAB is going to get BOTH a ten percent decrease and the change in the artist classification.  Likely will be one or the other, but who knows.  Rumours persist that the government is seriously considering relaxing the foreign rules for ownership.  If that happens, look out, it could get really interesting!

Last edited by paterson1 (April 2, 2021 1:00 pm)

 

April 2, 2021 1:59 pm  #14


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

There are a set of specific methods that radio stations use to test music.  These methods are used across the industry and are the generally accepted norm for determining what musical selections and which particular styles that the audience wants.  When a music test is done the participants are based on the format of the radio station that is involved.  A large amount effort is put in to ensure that there is a balance of age and gender representation within the group.  The participants are not aware of whether a song is CanCon or not, yet in every test across all formats CanCon simply does not test as well.

It's not a matter of programmers being biased or anti CanCon, the programmers simply want people to listen to their radio station, end of story.  If it was clear based on audience research that the listeners preferred CanCon you can be sure that the programmers would happily play it.  Letting the public decide isn't a point of view, it's merely a fact of life in all forms of the entertainment business.

I have no doubt that when asked a given question about CanCon that most Canadians would be in favour of it on a conceptual level.  I'm a proud Canadian and I do like it when one of our own does well on the international stage.  However, imposing an arbitrary content percentage is not the right approach and is beyond ridiculous when it comes time to actually put it in to practice.  So then if you asked those who were surveyed to list their top 10 favourite artists, what would the percentage of Canadian acts be?  Let me also add that my favourite band is Canadian, so it's not that I am against Canadian acts, it's that I don't believe that it should be regulated.

In a previous post a person said if there was no CanCon, what would be the point of an MD.  Stations in the US and around the world still have Music Directors.  Managing Canadian Content is one part of the job, but I'm pretty sure if you were to ask all of the MDs across the country if they thought that CanCon should be abolished they would all enthusiastically agree.

 

 

April 2, 2021 2:48 pm  #15


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

UnSub hit the nail on the head in the last comment. 

An issue I have with the recent CRTC survey is that it assumed people knew which acts qualify as CanCon. How is someone to know if an act is CanCon? Most young listeners probably enjoy the new Bieber and Mendes songs, but the majority of their hits don't even qualify as CanCon. So yes, people are probably happy with the amount of "Canadian" artists on radio, but they don't necessarily realize why radio stations still play the same 10 year old crap songs, since they may not even realize those crap songs are CanCon. Quite frankly, that CRTC report contains no real substance.. it was foolish to assume the general public had any clue how the CanCon regulations work. I'm sure all of us on the yellow board have had to explain CanCon to someone before, so you're likely familiar with how baffled people are by the complexities of MAPL, 35% broadcast day, 35% M-F, non-hits in Capital region, etc. If the broadcasters can prove that keeping CanCon at 35% is likely suppressing their ratings, then that's all that should be taken into account - as ratings are indeed a measure of the public's opinion of the content. 

It's hard to tell on pop music stations (where the artists tend to be newer/younger) who is Canadian and who isn't. On the classic/rock music stations, we've been hearing the same April Wine and Tragically Hips songs spun until the record disintegrates. 

CanCon should be somewhere between 10-25% since we're roughly 1/10th the size of the US, and roughly 1/2 of the CanCon played right now wouldn't be played if it was up to the broadcasters. It should be just enough to ensure that Canadian playlists aren't dictated exclusively by US charts, but not too much that we end up creating a phony industry of crap music that nobody wants to listen to. 

Also Paterson1: Music testing is done regularly, especially in Toronto, and I assure you that CanCon songs almost always trend towards the bottom of the survey. This is the main reason the CAB is asking for this change in the first place.. the broadcasters know which songs hurt their bottom line. Also, lowering the CanCon requirements will likely result in greater variety of music, since stations will still play the same number of songs per hour, but will replace some of their CanCon with international songs that may not have made the cut before. They will be able to change those up more often, since they won't need to worry about whether or not those are CanCon. 

With all this said, I also agree that counting the "artist" portion as two points in the MAPL system would be a bad idea. It would mean more of the same on the CanCon front, even if overall there's more variety on their playlists. Just lower the percentage, don't further complicate the regulations. 

 

April 2, 2021 3:22 pm  #16


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Speaking of Canadian Content, you won't believe where it sometimes turns up. There's a show which airs on a Florida shortwave station, of all places, that is dedicated to almost nothing but Canuck artists.

It's on WRMI Radio Miami International at 9395 AM on the SW band. It's a paid time station, which advertises its airtime for as little as $1 a minute. So an hour's show will cost you all of 60 bucks U.S. 

Anyway, this guy from near Sarnia has a show he does as a hobby that concentrates on all things CanCon. Imagine paying for the privilege of airing Canadian content. I wonder what local MD's would think about that!

WRMI Programming

https://i.ibb.co/GMj7YN7/wrmi2.jpg
 

     Thread Starter
 

April 2, 2021 4:59 pm  #17


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Some good points unsub and torontostan and thanks for your responses. 

The CRTC survey like any is not perfect, the same way that having listeners evaluate songs for a radio station to program isn't perfect either.  Surveys are always helpful even with some flaws. 

The CRTC survey seems like it was designed to be more geared to the public rather than the industry, which to me was the right thing to do.  The average participant who did the survey doesn't need to know or even care about the nuances of the MAPL system or have a deep knowledge of the regulations.  These are regular listeners for the most part and their not knowing about or caring about the regulations or who is a  Canadian artist or qualify as cancon  doesn't make the survey less valid.   Again cancon does not appear to be an issue for the listener and as far as I can tell, never has been. 

And where is the proof that this supposed "phony industry of crap music" has hurt ratings or revenue?  Why is US radio in even worse shape than Canada?  American broadcasters don't have the regulations we do, don't need to play any cancon and yet their industry generally isn't thriving, and hasn't for a long time.  US radio groups were having big financial problems 25 years ago and were cutting back and capitalizing on "synergies" before anyone.   All of this years before all of the new media and streaming choices offered today. 

The CAB recommendations seem to be an attempt to follow the US model which to me is odd.  And Canadian music actually hurting the bottom line?  In all of my years in sales, dealing with both local and national advertisers nothing ever came up about the music we were playing.  Format and demos yes, but actual music no.  

In the UK private radio has had large layoffs, even before COVID, and  Australia's SCA Hit Radio network fired over 90 people and their long time music director was let go back in 2019 because of a 10.9% reduction in year end revenues September of that year.  Did radio programmers in either of these countries attempt to blame the revenue and rating decline on the domestic music that they had to play?  Australia has content rules and the UK I believe still does, however  like the US, radio in the UK doesn't really need any regulations for this since they play mostly domestic music anyway.  The large radio chains in the UK also often seem to be more adventurous musically than their counterparts in Canada and US. 

 

April 2, 2021 5:37 pm  #18


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

torontostan thanks, glad you agree.

10% would be fine, but I think at that level there would almost be no need for the regulations because chances are that a station would end up playing 10% anyhow just as a matter of course.  As mentioned, I think everyone in Canada likes it when our home grown talent does well.  Radio stations are well aware of this and know that giving props to those artists will be popular with the audience.

As for counting an artist as two, it just means that if it's a Canadian artist then that counts as CanCon, I think this is probably how most Canadians think it works anyhow,  Most people are very surprised when I tell them that almost all Bieber and Celine songs don't qualify.  For that reason, I think counting the artist as two is a good idea.

The odd thing is that when you put analysis to all of this everybody is really on the same page.  The goal here is to do what's best for the listening audience and appeal to what they want.  The idea of the regulations in the first place was that we, the public own the airwaves.  If you want to make money using our airwaves then you have to give something back.  In the modern era, radio stations have realized that giving back in a variety of different ways is good for their brand, so most, but not all, stations do this anyhow.

Last edited by UnSub (April 2, 2021 6:15 pm)

 

April 2, 2021 6:04 pm  #19


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

And thanks for the discussion unsub, good way to put in an afternoon!  To those that celebrate, have a good Easter and long weekend...

 

April 2, 2021 6:14 pm  #20


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Great points from you both as well! 

No doubt it's an interesting debate. My fear is the CRTC survey will take precedence over anything the CAB or the broadcasters have to say, and yet I would be surprised if many listeners would be less likely to tune in if these regulations were indeed relaxed a bit. The CRTC will likely quote their own survey.. "sorry, but a small minority of Canadians in the survey said they wanted less Canadian music." I feel that if the current regulations were explained in detail to the general public, they would likely say the regulations are a bit overkill, especially considering all the new listening options that have come during CanCon's life. So if the broadcasters say it will help, and the listeners likely won't notice, then who cares.. let them lower CanCon. 

Not an expert on international radio, but here's my view on the death of radio down south. US radio was killed by a spot price war.. lower cost per spot = more spots to make revenue targets, which has resulted in commercial breaks that are extremely long. The other major contributor would be mass consolidation, and the lack of live & local programming. Finally, the availability of unlimited data plans. If your content is going to be filled with commercials, not offer anything local, and not be music you're picking.. why would you listen? You're better off streaming at that point. 

My 'perfect world' scenario would be that broadcasters in Canada could lower CanCon to 10-25%, put their major market AMs on FMs second adjacent to their FMs (technical limitation aside for a moment), for example 680 could simulcast low-power on 92.9 or something like that. Then a fair compromise would be that broadcasters have to devote a certain percentage of the broadcast day to live & local programming, ideally more than just the morning shows. 

Keeping CanCon where it is, allowing foreign investment, and not enforcing local/live programming will kill the industry in short order. We'll end up operating like the US, and the end results will be the same. 

 

April 2, 2021 6:24 pm  #21


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Here's an idea, develop a structure that encourages and rewards broadcasters for doing something that contributes to the community as opposed to a structure where stations are so frightened of being out of compliance that it's what dictates their behaviour.

Last edited by UnSub (April 2, 2021 6:26 pm)

 

April 4, 2021 1:02 am  #22


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Good debate, excellent points raised, but we all know that pigs will fly before the CRTC lowers Can-Con. Not gonna happen. They are more likely to raise it, but let's not give them any ideas. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/laughing.png

Last edited by Dale Patterson (April 4, 2021 1:03 am)


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

April 4, 2021 11:15 am  #23


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Dale Patterson wrote:

Good debate, excellent points raised, but we all know that pigs will fly before the CRTC lowers Can-Con. Not gonna happen. They are more likely to raise it, but let's not give them any ideas. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/laughing.png

Well an increase is not what many want and wouldn't be a good move.  There may be some hope since they have lowered cancon for a lot of specialty television channels and those stations also have much more flexibility.  CTV Comedy networks had a 13 day Big Bang Theory Marathon Boxing Day into the new year a few months back.  No cancon and CTV's other specialty channels have had other shorter marathons throughout the year. And they didn't need to play catch up after the marathons were over, and most went 24/7.   So there may be some hope.

Anything is possible and if broadcasters get a little more serious and try to play a better variety of cancon gold (actually all gold).  Some posters on SOWNY are tired of hearing the same classic songs on stations and I agree.  But I also hear stations never playing some songs (including cancon) that were popular 10,15,30 ,40 years ago but for whatever reason don't play.  Often playing the same 5 or 6 songs from artists that had many more hits.  Even Sirius XM is guilty of this. 
 
Every song heard on the radio does not need to be a classic top 30 hit.  When you limit yourself to this, or really limit the songs from an artists greatest hits catalogue you get burn out.  Maybe they should play more of the songs that radio forgot Dale!! https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons3/sleeping.png


Cancon has always been more of a challenge for classic gold oriented stations. However having said that BOOM, for years has been one of Toronto's most popular stations.  And of course Q107 has also seen a nice increase in listenership and has even been number one in key demographics.  

In fact comparing classic rock and classic hits radio in Toronto and Chicago from the latest rating is interesting.  And I know they may be a little skewed because of COVID.  Demos are 6+ for Chicago and 12+ for Toronto. 

Chicago
WDRQ      #7 in market     4.0 share
WLS FM    #10                   2.9

Toronto
Q107         #3 in market      10.5 share                     
BOOM       #4                       8.4
 

Last edited by paterson1 (April 4, 2021 12:10 pm)

 

April 4, 2021 4:15 pm  #24


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Again, it comes down to the test scores.  There are lots of songs that I really love and wish would be played on the radio, but the fact is that the public doesn't want to hear them.  For example there are probably at least 10 songs by Bryan Adams that will test better than The Partland Brothers.

As for the increase in listening for classic rock stations, my theory is that during covid people wanted comfort music that reminded them of better times.  Also, last year there were probably a lot of displaced sports radio listeners because for a time there were no sports to speak of.  While that's changed now, it will take some time for it show in the ratings.  It's only a theory and I have not data to support it, but it does make sense.

 

April 4, 2021 5:05 pm  #25


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

They should allow imaging & commercial production to count as the 35%. Written, voiced, produced by Canadians. That would ease the pain.

 

April 4, 2021 5:21 pm  #26


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

UnSub wrote:

Again, it comes down to the test scores . . .  It's only a theory and I have not data to support it, but it does make sense.

A TV commercial advertises that if you're between the ages of 18 and 80, you are qualified for life insurance; no medical examination required.

Will your music theory also work for anyone between the ages of 18 and 80?     Or would different playlists be tested for someone born in (say) 1940, 1960, 1980 and 2000?     
 

 

April 4, 2021 6:42 pm  #27


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

I hope the testing is used as a tool and indicator and not necessarily a final say on songs.  The people used in testing are not Rosalie Tromblay and will have certain built in musical tastes they like and don't. To say they represent "the public" is a bit of a stretch, but rather a reasonable indication.  

What happens when a popular group or artist has a song that doesn't score well, but is being played by a competitor or reasonably popular in other markets?   Do you take a pass on the song? 

The idea of testing with listeners overall is a good idea.  But I hope this is not why so many stations tend to sound similar with the same songs, and why so little rock is now heard on radio.  Maybe with the popularity of Q107, if it continues to hold, we will again hear some rock in the mix on radio.

It is odd why top 40 and CHR have been more or less void of rock for the last 15-20 years.  Especially since this was the music that formed a big part of these formats for so long.  I always thought Beck's Dreams would have broken through on top 40 radio a few years ago, but I guess this didn't score with the panel.   Received little CHR and top 40 play here or US, but It did manage to go gold in Canada.

 

April 4, 2021 9:12 pm  #28


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

geo wrote:

UnSub wrote:

Again, it comes down to the test scores . . .  It's only a theory and I have not data to support it, but it does make sense.

A TV commercial advertises that if you're between the ages of 18 and 80, you are qualified for life insurance; no medical examination required.

Will your music theory also work for anyone between the ages of 18 and 80?     Or would different playlists be tested for someone born in (say) 1940, 1960, 1980 and 2000?     
 

As I mentioned in a previous post, when a music test is done it is based on the format of the radio station doing the test, so obviously the age group and gender mix of the participants will reflect the primary demo of the given radio station.  This part of what I said was not a theory, it is fact.  What I said was that I had theory about the increase of listenership on classic rock stations.

 

April 4, 2021 9:31 pm  #29


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

paterson1 wrote:

I hope the testing is used as a tool and indicator and not necessarily a final say on songs.  The people used in testing are not Rosalie Tromblay and will have certain built in musical tastes they like and don't. To say they represent "the public" is a bit of a stretch, but rather a reasonable indication.  

What happens when a popular group or artist has a song that doesn't score well, but is being played by a competitor or reasonably popular in other markets?   Do you take a pass on the song? 

The idea of testing with listeners overall is a good idea.  But I hope this is not why so many stations tend to sound similar with the same songs, and why so little rock is now heard on radio.  Maybe with the popularity of Q107, if it continues to hold, we will again hear some rock in the mix on radio.

It is odd why top 40 and CHR have been more or less void of rock for the last 15-20 years.  Especially since this was the music that formed a big part of these formats for so long.  I always thought Beck's Dreams would have broken through on top 40 radio a few years ago, but I guess this didn't score with the panel.   Received little CHR and top 40 play here or US, but It did manage to go gold in Canada.

Typically what a gold based radio station will do is take the best testing songs within a given range, those songs create the station's music "universe."  Songs that get a score below a certain value simply don't get on the air.  That score threshold across every format and in every music test has to be set lower for CanCon.  While one could argue about whether or not music tests are effectively gauging what the overall public thinks, it doesn't matter because this is merely how it's done in the industry.  If you have a method of selecting songs that is better and will result in higher ratings I can guarantee that every radio station and every PD will be happy to use it.  I've seen stations and PDs proudly proclaim that they don't go by the research and in every case the station had awful ratings and/or the PD was fired.  A song that doesn't test well, won't test well in your competitor's research either, so that song won't get played on any of the stations.

 

April 4, 2021 9:47 pm  #30


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Radiowiz wrote:

UnSub wrote:

CanCon should be 0%

No, because @ 0% why bother even having music directors at all? 92.5 can be a WKSE repeater, to name one station. (with local content thrown in when desired)

Stop this! I've never understood why this board gives so much reverence to freakin' Buffalo, NY. Toronto would be market #3 or #4 in America. Buffalo is #59. No Toronto station is becoming a repeater of another station, anywhere.