From Day One, I thought the Can-Con level should have been 25 per cent. One out of every four songs. Less burn-out of familiar tunes but still high enough to boost Canadian artists in a significant way.

Last edited by Dale Patterson (April 1, 2021 6:54 pm)

paterson1 wrote:

Also does the CAB  want to go on the rebroadcaster/translator route for AM, or am I misunderstanding this?   So let's jam up the FM frequencies with a bunch of 10 watt repeaters for 680 News, CHIN and Newstalk 1010.
 

This would tie in, and they won't say it directly, with the ownership increase. So not a 10 watt repeater for 1010 or 680, but rather NewsTalk 96.3 and 88.1 News.

paterson1 wrote:

I think the CAB could be making a mistake with wanting to allow more concentration of ownership of stations in towns and cities.  They are recommending for example that in radio markets of 8 or less stations that an individual could own or control up to 4 or half.  In markets with 16 or more stations that the same company could own 8 stations.

Wouldn't this open up the door for Bell, Stingray, Rogers, Corus etc. to own even more stations?   So in Toronto or Calgary Bell or Rogers could have 8 stations in each market. How would this be a good thing?  Has this been successful in the US where currently in large markets iHeart and Entercom can have 8 stations?  How does this serve the public better?

Interesting you would say that, because this happened in the U.S. today. And it's not a good development. It's just what they don't need - more big companies owning every station in a market. And now newspapers, too. 

U.S. Supreme Court Justices uphold FCC's easing of local media ownership limits 

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

The thing is, the CAB and private radio is kidding themselves since playing 35 or 25% cancon  will make no difference in revenues or ratings.  Just how MTV and Much Music eventually couldn't compete with video on demand and Youtube, radio can't compete with Spotify and all of the other music streaming services.   And they shouldn't even try because that battle has already been lost.  
 

If this is true, what is the harm in letting them try?

Whether or not one industry (radio) should have to alter its product to support another industry (music) is purely philosophical, with no correct answer. But the reality is that it is not working, and not because there's some secret trove of amazing music that would be huge if only radio would play it. 

So, why not?

Cancon is not working?  How so?  Using record sales or what is streamed on Spotify as an example to show that the regs are too high or not working is not the best argument.  Spotify numbers are terribly inflated since a customer only needs to listen to 30 seconds of a song to be considered a full play.  So you could listen to bits and pieces of 60 songs and all would be counted as a full listen.  Besides the radio charts already don't reflect what is being streamed or chosen on Spotify anyway.  Streaming, music on demand services, offering 10, 20, 70 million tracks to choose from make the numbers and comparisons to radio not very valid.  People don't stream and listen to the radio for the same reasons or even with the same ears.

I am not against 25% cancon at all, not sure I agree with the proposed artist criteria counting as two parts since we will then hear even more from our international cancon artists.  Programmers tend not to bother with new music or artists until somebody else (Billboard) says so, even more so with Canadian music.   Will this bring back the days when stations won't play new Canadian artists because they don't need to or can't be bothered?   Or would any light rotation for new and emerging artists be corralled together into the late night graveyard? 

And you are right, and I have said before that the purpose of music radio stations is not to sell records for record companies or artists.  But by the same token, domestic artists shouldn't be ignored or treated differently by broadcasters just because they are Canadian.  And we don't need to have domestic songs or artists approved by another countries media or music publication to suddenly make a local artists song worthy of airplay.   

UnSub wrote:

CanCon should be 0%

No, because @ 0% why bother even having music directors at all? 92.5 can be a WKSE repeater, to name one station. (with local content thrown in when desired)

If this were at least ten years ago, I would argue that Can Con should be excused 100% only during special events.
Collingwood Ontario being one great example.
If a station wanted to go all Elvis all the time during the Elvis festival, that would be one fair reason for an exemption.
Unfortunately, my point went moot in recent years, since Elvis has not only left the building...he has unfortunately left the town!
(source: https://www.collingwood.ca/council-government/news-notices/elvis-fest-update )

Last edited by Radiowiz (April 2, 2021 1:06 am)

UnSub wrote:

While there are certain exceptions, for the most part CanCon doesn't test well, simple as that.  If the point of the exercise is to the benefit the public, then let the public decide.  This is the case in just about every music test, so in a way the public has spoken.  Just eliminate the archaic regulations including category 3.  It's all quite ridiculous.

And how is cancon tested?  Testing music is a hard thing to do since people's tastes are all over the place.  Hasn't the public already decided when they tune in a radio station instead of streaming or listening to their own music?   If Canadian songs are never played on the radio, how is that serving the public?   If radio were really following what the pubic wants to hear, many formats and the music played would be radically different. 

I have never bought this "let the public or market decide" point of view.   Radio stations give people a lot of music and programming that many listeners don't like or want, not just cancon.  But that seems to be ok when it is the latest thing from the states or Europe.  However when cancon comes up, well that is another story.   All of a sudden it is wrong, poorly produced, people don't want to hear this,  the government is forcing crap on the air, and all this Canadian music is hurting us and we can't compete on a level playing field...etc..etc... All the tired lazy arguments we have heard for decades, and none of them very accurate.

In the recent CRTC survey people were told what the current regulations were, and the percent of cancon levels.  Most people indicated they were ok with cancon on radio and even 35%.  Only 11% indicated that they didn't support the cancon regulation and 13% wanted less Canadian music on the radio.   I know that was not what some radio people wanted to see but that is what the survey indicated.  So in fact the people in this large survey have spoken and did decide. 

What the survey really did say however is that cancon is not a big issue for the average listener, contrary to what some  like to think.  Maybe since it's been around for 50 years?  People also don't the want 35% increased but rather want a better variety of all music, better variety of artists and less repetition of all songs.

I agree that the regs should be modified, and stations given more flexibility.  Overall cancon on radio could be decreased.  I don't think the CAB is going to get BOTH a ten percent decrease and the change in the artist classification.  Likely will be one or the other, but who knows.  Rumours persist that the government is seriously considering relaxing the foreign rules for ownership.  If that happens, look out, it could get really interesting!

Last edited by paterson1 (April 2, 2021 1:00 pm)

Speaking of Canadian Content, you won't believe where it sometimes turns up. There's a show which airs on a Florida shortwave station, of all places, that is dedicated to almost nothing but Canuck artists.

It's on WRMI Radio Miami International at 9395 AM on the SW band. It's a paid time station, which advertises its airtime for as little as $1 a minute. So an hour's show will cost you all of 60 bucks U.S. 

Anyway, this guy from near Sarnia has a show he does as a hobby that concentrates on all things CanCon. Imagine paying for the privilege of airing Canadian content. I wonder what local MD's would think about that!

WRMI Programming

 

torontostan thanks, glad you agree.

10% would be fine, but I think at that level there would almost be no need for the regulations because chances are that a station would end up playing 10% anyhow just as a matter of course.  As mentioned, I think everyone in Canada likes it when our home grown talent does well.  Radio stations are well aware of this and know that giving props to those artists will be popular with the audience.

As for counting an artist as two, it just means that if it's a Canadian artist then that counts as CanCon, I think this is probably how most Canadians think it works anyhow,  Most people are very surprised when I tell them that almost all Bieber and Celine songs don't qualify.  For that reason, I think counting the artist as two is a good idea.

The odd thing is that when you put analysis to all of this everybody is really on the same page.  The goal here is to do what's best for the listening audience and appeal to what they want.  The idea of the regulations in the first place was that we, the public own the airwaves.  If you want to make money using our airwaves then you have to give something back.  In the modern era, radio stations have realized that giving back in a variety of different ways is good for their brand, so most, but not all, stations do this anyhow.

Last edited by UnSub (April 2, 2021 6:15 pm)

Here's an idea, develop a structure that encourages and rewards broadcasters for doing something that contributes to the community as opposed to a structure where stations are so frightened of being out of compliance that it's what dictates their behaviour.

Last edited by UnSub (April 2, 2021 6:26 pm)

Dale Patterson wrote:

Good debate, excellent points raised, but we all know that pigs will fly before the CRTC lowers Can-Con. Not gonna happen. They are more likely to raise it, but let's not give them any ideas. 

Well an increase is not what many want and wouldn't be a good move.  There may be some hope since they have lowered cancon for a lot of specialty television channels and those stations also have much more flexibility.  CTV Comedy networks had a 13 day Big Bang Theory Marathon Boxing Day into the new year a few months back.  No cancon and CTV's other specialty channels have had other shorter marathons throughout the year. And they didn't need to play catch up after the marathons were over, and most went 24/7.   So there may be some hope.

Anything is possible and if broadcasters get a little more serious and try to play a better variety of cancon gold (actually all gold).  Some posters on SOWNY are tired of hearing the same classic songs on stations and I agree.  But I also hear stations never playing some songs (including cancon) that were popular 10,15,30 ,40 years ago but for whatever reason don't play.  Often playing the same 5 or 6 songs from artists that had many more hits.  Even Sirius XM is guilty of this. 
 
Every song heard on the radio does not need to be a classic top 30 hit.  When you limit yourself to this, or really limit the songs from an artists greatest hits catalogue you get burn out.  Maybe they should play more of the songs that radio forgot Dale!! 

Cancon has always been more of a challenge for classic gold oriented stations. However having said that BOOM, for years has been one of Toronto's most popular stations.  And of course Q107 has also seen a nice increase in listenership and has even been number one in key demographics.  

In fact comparing classic rock and classic hits radio in Toronto and Chicago from the latest rating is interesting.  And I know they may be a little skewed because of COVID.  Demos are 6+ for Chicago and 12+ for Toronto. 

Chicago
WDRQ      #7 in market     4.0 share
WLS FM    #10                   2.9

Toronto
Q107         #3 in market      10.5 share                     
BOOM       #4                       8.4
 

Last edited by paterson1 (April 4, 2021 12:10 pm)

They should allow imaging & commercial production to count as the 35%. Written, voiced, produced by Canadians. That would ease the pain.

I hope the testing is used as a tool and indicator and not necessarily a final say on songs.  The people used in testing are not Rosalie Tromblay and will have certain built in musical tastes they like and don't. To say they represent "the public" is a bit of a stretch, but rather a reasonable indication.  

What happens when a popular group or artist has a song that doesn't score well, but is being played by a competitor or reasonably popular in other markets?   Do you take a pass on the song? 

The idea of testing with listeners overall is a good idea.  But I hope this is not why so many stations tend to sound similar with the same songs, and why so little rock is now heard on radio.  Maybe with the popularity of Q107, if it continues to hold, we will again hear some rock in the mix on radio.

It is odd why top 40 and CHR have been more or less void of rock for the last 15-20 years.  Especially since this was the music that formed a big part of these formats for so long.  I always thought Beck's Dreams would have broken through on top 40 radio a few years ago, but I guess this didn't score with the panel.   Received little CHR and top 40 play here or US, but It did manage to go gold in Canada.

paterson1 wrote:

I hope the testing is used as a tool and indicator and not necessarily a final say on songs.  The people used in testing are not Rosalie Tromblay and will have certain built in musical tastes they like and don't. To say they represent "the public" is a bit of a stretch, but rather a reasonable indication.  

What happens when a popular group or artist has a song that doesn't score well, but is being played by a competitor or reasonably popular in other markets?   Do you take a pass on the song? 

The idea of testing with listeners overall is a good idea.  But I hope this is not why so many stations tend to sound similar with the same songs, and why so little rock is now heard on radio.  Maybe with the popularity of Q107, if it continues to hold, we will again hear some rock in the mix on radio.

It is odd why top 40 and CHR have been more or less void of rock for the last 15-20 years.  Especially since this was the music that formed a big part of these formats for so long.  I always thought Beck's Dreams would have broken through on top 40 radio a few years ago, but I guess this didn't score with the panel.   Received little CHR and top 40 play here or US, but It did manage to go gold in Canada.

Typically what a gold based radio station will do is take the best testing songs within a given range, those songs create the station's music "universe."  Songs that get a score below a certain value simply don't get on the air.  That score threshold across every format and in every music test has to be set lower for CanCon.  While one could argue about whether or not music tests are effectively gauging what the overall public thinks, it doesn't matter because this is merely how it's done in the industry.  If you have a method of selecting songs that is better and will result in higher ratings I can guarantee that every radio station and every PD will be happy to use it.  I've seen stations and PDs proudly proclaim that they don't go by the research and in every case the station had awful ratings and/or the PD was fired.  A song that doesn't test well, won't test well in your competitor's research either, so that song won't get played on any of the stations.

paterson1 wrote:

It is odd why top 40 and CHR have been more or less void of rock for the last 15-20 years.  Especially since this was the music that formed a big part of these formats for so long.

I'll tread lightly here, but it's cultural. 

I'd challenge you to name on one hand current Rock bands that should be on CHR.

Even Alternative is becoming pop-based.

Rock is now niche.
 

Last edited by RadioAaron (April 4, 2021 10:01 pm)

This isn't CanCon related, but it's about programming music on radio stations. You may or may not agree with his conclusions. 

"You’ve heard this before: It’s not what you play; it’s what you don’t play that makes you successful."

"Don’t get caught up in picking the hits. That appeals to your ego. That’s really worth nothing in our business. Be smart and look to eliminate the bad songs all the time. Do that, you are guaranteed to go somewhere great."

Music Philosophy That Will Crush Your Competition